Milne its Time

[Seaford_Saint]

Put simply.... "The Redeemer" should be given a 6 month 'holiday' from this forum.... Unless you're Tony f****** Lockett, Clint Jones has achieved more for this club than your 'efforts' will achieve in 100 lifetimes you tool!!!

[To the top]

Well, guess what!!!!

Incidentally, when Milne took as mark in the forward pocket (immediately before the siren - and proceeded kicked a point), Gram was 30 out straight in front and free waving his arms around.

So that selfish act cancels out the goal Koschitzke gifted Milne.

I go on the record again, I would have offered Milne and the publicity he attracts to Sheedy and his publicity for a draft pick in the top 30.

Sheedy would have been a sucker for it.

Gram I though played well and provided a contest all night.

And another I have backed as a superior footballer with the best mark, the best kick and the cleanest hands at the club excelled again tonight. The benefit has been a pre-season and fitness going into a season.

And I repeat again, our defence sorely misses Gwilt and Clarke for what they bring to the side.

Simpkin is improving and playing disciplined and servicable football.

Blake was servicable tonight, but we could not win a centre clearance with him rucking. He may continue to get a game in Fisher's absence but Fisher's return will spell the end.

If Ferguson continues his form tomorrow, do we upgrade him and ease him in?

Such is the paucity of tall defenders.

And how can Armitage get pummelled in the back attempting to mark, resulting in an injury, and have a free paid against him?

Plus Rioli ducking his head - and the play on's (plural) to advantage when the player did not have possesion of the ball in one instance (soccered it) and was under enormous pressure on the other in a reflex take off a spillage?

In both those incidents, the point resulted in goals at the other end - so a 4 goal turn around on the night.

We could not win a centre clearance and we had a lot of shoddy work but he umps did us absolutely no favours.

[Richter]

I'm sorry..... but Milney has just so many credits in the bank for us....

1. Won us games off his own boot many times
2. He and Lenny are the fabric of the club - and his presence and the standards he sets can't be discounted
3. We have been down and out many times (with Roo & Kosi out)... and Milney has taken all before him and delivered under very difficult circumstances, where he's been 1 vs 2 or 1 vs 3 in the forward 50

As far as I'm concerned, if players like Gram can just get inked into the starting 18 every week.... Milney has my unqualified support until the end of the year.

For Christ's sake people - it will be a LONG LONG time before you cheer such an excitement machine again

1. True, but nowhere near that form this year.
2. Yes, they are, but so was Bakes - time caught up with him last year. It is now for Milney.
3. Did you see the game tonight, or for that matter any game this year? Milney's getting caned in ALL the one-on-ones. He no longer has the initial acceleration to get away from the man to take the mark. Have you noticed that he plays for a free at virtually every one-on-one contest nowadays? He always used to half the time, the other half he backed himself to win the ball outright. I don't think he backs himself to win any contest any more.

Gram is a regular contributor. An outside player who provides run and averages around 20 possessions a game. Whether he plays or not is irrelevant to any discussion involving Milne.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Milney's getting caned in ALL the one-on-ones.

That is certainly true. He had a really good period a couple of years ago where he was doing really well in one on one marking contests, but that is ancient history and the sooner everyone in our side realises that the better, as kicking the ball long to him in a contest now is almost like handing the ball over to the other team.

[dcstkfc]

For the first time I'll admit that is looking worrying for Milney

[Scollop]

And how can Armitage get pummelled in the back attempting to mark, resulting in an injury, and have a free paid against him?

Because Milne was holding on to Hodge's arm and the ump spotted it. Perhaps he could have also spotted that Hodge was reckless and caused Armo an injury with an illegal attempt to mark. perhaps the mrp might want to have another look at the incident. Perhaps St Kilda needs to lodge a complaint.





perhaps I need some sleep :-/

[groupie1]

What's really disappointed me about Mine this year is his defensive efforts (or lack of). It's never been his strong suit however this year it's been non-existent. He's looked extremely selfish this season. I would prefer him to kick less goals and have more tackles / pressure acts in our forward 50.

What are the stats, exactly? you're saying he's kicked more goals and laid less tackles that at equivalent times in the past few years?

[groupie1]

I reckon Milney still adds value for three reasons: decoy to gently ease Saad into the side, if thats the way its going to play out; he uses the ball nicely when it he gets it up the ground; sound kick for goal. Nothing wrong with the comparison with Gram. The problems at the Saints are not to do with Milne and friends but with Gram and friends - Gram, Ray, Jones, Polo, and, I used to say maybe Geary and Armitage. It was a valid point - some younger player development has been hampered by a few too many hacks.

[8856brother]

Well, guess what!!!!

Incidentally, when Milne took as mark in the forward pocket (immediately before the siren - and proceeded kicked a point), Gram was 30 out straight in front and free waving his arms around.

So that selfish act cancels out the goal Koschitzke gifted Milne.

Did you not notice the runner yelling at him not to play on because the siren was just about to ring. It was quite obvious. What if he tries to pass it and the siren rings. Ridiculous and ill informed comment.

Was his give off to Saad for his first senior goal selfish as well.

[Richter]

What's really disappointed me about Mine this year is his defensive efforts (or lack of). It's never been his strong suit however this year it's been non-existent. He's looked extremely selfish this season. I would prefer him to kick less goals and have more tackles / pressure acts in our forward 50.

What are the stats, exactly? you're saying he's kicked more goals and laid less tackles that at equivalent times in the past few years?

From footywire...

Stephen Milne averages...

2009 13.3 disposals 4.7 marks 2.0 goals 2.8 tackles
2010 15.1 disposals 4.4 marks 2.3 goals 2.0 tackles
2011 13.4 disposals 4.0 marks 2.4 goals 2.6 tackles
2012 11.0 disposals 3.2 marks 1.8 goals 2.5 tackles

So this suggests that it is not his defensive efforts (tackles) which has dropped off, but rather his offensive effectiveness. He getting less of the ball (fewer disposals and marks) and doing less with it (fewer goals). When you consider that 5/6 of our opponents this year are currently below us on the ladder and that Milney, more than most, has struggled more against the better teams, then it certainly does not harbor well for the next few games when we play the top teams on the ladder.

[borderbarry]

I cant understand people calling for Saad to replace Milne. Sure Saad kicked a goal with his first kick in AFL, but after that what did he do? In a full half of football he had two other kicks and two hand passes. Not enough to hold his place I would think. And why was he selected ahead of Ledger? Anyone comment on that?

[tweedaletomanning]

I cant understand people calling for Saad to replace Milne. Sure Saad kicked a goal with his first kick in AFL, but after that what did he do? In a full half of football he had two other kicks and two hand passes. Not enough to hold his place I would think. And why was he selected ahead of Ledger? Anyone comment on that?

Actually a good point. Saad did not deserve to be selected ahead of ledger.

[Richter]

Not necessarily a question of Saad replacing Milne, could be that Milne is simply dropped. With Milera, Siposs, Cripps, Steven, Armitage we have plenty of others who can rotate through a forward spot.

Having said that I would like to see a bit more of Saad in advance of Schneider becoming available again.

[plugger66]

I think luckily for us Milne supporters he still has plenty of credits in the bank. Why drop him if there isn't a replacement and there isnt. People on here get excited about our young guys but the first second and third tear players have a long way to go. Simpkin is cleary the best of these but still doesnt get much of the ball yet but he can play, Milera is ok and looks good and should make it. The others are off the pace. Doesnt mean they cant make it but Milne doesnt deserve to be dropped for any of them no matter how much you are building.

[Teflon]

Not necessarily a question of Saad replacing Milne, could be that Milne is simply dropped. With Milera, Siposs, Cripps, Steven, Armitage we have plenty of others who can rotate through a forward spot.

Having said that I would like to see a bit more of Saad in advance of Schneider becoming available again.

Well said.

It's not about Saad for Milne - I too didnt think Saad deserved a call up last night........but I reckon Ledger has ALL pre season and wins his own ball with run FFS and can play through the middle where we got smashed when it mattered.

From Milnes output last night I'll take another genuine midfield option right now and rotate through the fwd pocket as opposed to a SPECIFIC fwd pocket who touches the ball 3 times and kicks a goal when the game is over.

Milnes been a legend for our club - just as Baker was but FFS get your head out of your @rses and call it as it is - THE END comes for all players, we are not a top 4 side it is now about the future and getting games into kids who deserve and can be part of our next tilt. I think Milne should not be a walk up start every week as he is now - those days are over for mine. He should still play and help with Saads and others development but not at the expense of youth as a certainty every week. Unfortunately, Scott Watters has this tough call......Ross Lyon knew they were coming and ran.

To suggest we keep playing players cause they have "credits"is absurd - you are judged on your output when you run out on to the ground NOW not for what you were able to do 3 years ago. The game moves on to fast for that.

The only dumb posters in this thread are those hangijg on to "glory days" (please refer Springsteen) long after those days are gone. Wake up.

[SaintPav]

Better than retarded Clinton Jones who does not kick and cannot kick and sounds like the retarded kid in your classes that could play da sportz good but waz a tard

Shut your damn mouth, you fool.

+1

[plugger66]

Not necessarily a question of Saad replacing Milne, could be that Milne is simply dropped. With Milera, Siposs, Cripps, Steven, Armitage we have plenty of others who can rotate through a forward spot.

Having said that I would like to see a bit more of Saad in advance of Schneider becoming available again.

Well said.

It's not about Saad for Milne - I too didnt think Saad deserved a call up last night........but I reckon Ledger has ALL pre season and wins his own ball with run FFS and can play through the middle where we got smashed when it mattered.

From Milnes output last night I'll take another genuine midfield option right now and rotate through the fwd pocket as opposed to a SPECIFIC fwd pocket who touches the ball 3 times and kicks a goal when the game is over.

Milnes been a legend for our club - just as Baker was but FFS get your head out of your @rses and call it as it is - THE END comes for all players, we are not a top 4 side it is now about the future and getting games into kids who deserve and can be part of our next tilt. I think Milne should not be a walk up start every week as he is now - those days are over for mine. He should still play and help with Saads and others development but not at the expense of youth as a certainty every week. Unfortunately, Scott Watters has this tough call......Ross Lyon knew they were coming and ran.

To suggest we keep playing players cause they have "credits"is absurd - you are judged on your output when you run out on to the ground NOW not for what you were able to do 3 years ago. The game moves on to fast for that.

The only dumb posters in this thread are those hangijg on to "glory days" (please refer Springsteen) long after those days are gone. Wake up.

Sorry but you have credits whatever position you are on the ladder otherwise do you drop Lenny if he plays 2 or 3 bad ones in a row. There is actually a thing called morale and dropping some players will not help that. Milney isnt anywhere near the top of his game but he has still been better that a few others. He certainly deserves one, two or even 3 more games and so he should get it. Only dumb posters want guys dropped when the options are pretty much nil and also only dumb posters dont understand credits are important for morale.

[Teflon]

Not necessarily a question of Saad replacing Milne, could be that Milne is simply dropped. With Milera, Siposs, Cripps, Steven, Armitage we have plenty of others who can rotate through a forward spot.

Having said that I would like to see a bit more of Saad in advance of Schneider becoming available again.

Well said.

It's not about Saad for Milne - I too didnt think Saad deserved a call up last night........but I reckon Ledger has ALL pre season and wins his own ball with run FFS and can play through the middle where we got smashed when it mattered.

From Milnes output last night I'll take another genuine midfield option right now and rotate through the fwd pocket as opposed to a SPECIFIC fwd pocket who touches the ball 3 times and kicks a goal when the game is over.

Milnes been a legend for our club - just as Baker was but FFS get your head out of your @rses and call it as it is - THE END comes for all players, we are not a top 4 side it is now about the future and getting games into kids who deserve and can be part of our next tilt. I think Milne should not be a walk up start every week as he is now - those days are over for mine. He should still play and help with Saads and others development but not at the expense of youth as a certainty every week. Unfortunately, Scott Watters has this tough call......Ross Lyon knew they were coming and ran.

To suggest we keep playing players cause they have "credits"is absurd - you are judged on your output when you run out on to the ground NOW not for what you were able to do 3 years ago. The game moves on to fast for that.

The only dumb posters in this thread are those hangijg on to "glory days" (please refer Springsteen) long after those days are gone. Wake up.

Sorry but you have credits whatever position you are on the ladder otherwise do you drop Lenny if he plays 2 or 3 bad ones in a row. There is actually a thing called morale and dropping some players will not help that. Milney isnt anywhere near the top of his game but he has still been better that a few others. He certainly deserves one, two or even 3 more games and so he should get it. Only dumb posters want guys dropped when the options are pretty much nil and also only dumb posters dont understand credits are important for morale.

How many times you seen Lenny Hayes play 3 bad ones in a row? - theres dumb right there...


Credits/morale pffft.....morale is about players getting games WHEN THEY DESERVE them - Id argue continuing to obsessively play the same players week in week out based on past performance is far worse for morale than not rewarding some weird credits system based on good games played 3 years ago???. What an odd idea. Just imagine Ledger and co when you say..."sorry fellas we are continuing to play Milne after multiple mediocre performances cause he has "credits".......trust me, it'll be good for morale...." it almost negligently ignores the future of our club.

IF we dont have a ready Milne replacement then look at your structures - but dont keepy carrying players cause its not a good enough reason BTW Schneider will be back in a few..........I reckon Milnes spot is not guaranteed...

[To the top]

As I have been putting for some time we are no longer strong enough to accomodate a specialist forward pocket player - even one who averages 2 goals a game.

We need all hands to the decks to improve our mid-field rotations and our across the ground accountability.

In regards a trainer yelling at Milne that the siren was imminent well the trainer is a trainer.

Gram was immediately free and identifying that fact and the ball should have been immediately passed to him.

Instead Milne turned his back, put the ball under his arm and walked back to take a difficult shot on goal.

When he had turned and was lining up the siren sounded.

Gram by that time was covered.

Gram's response was self evident.

Did not see Milne had Hodge's arm but that also cost us a goal. If he had Hodge's arm that was just plain stupid and totally unnecessary.

Time to move on.

Are Saad and Milera the answers?

Well, we will just have to find out - along with others on our list who will be given the opportunity off training track and VFL performances (again, plural).

[plugger66]

Well said.

It's not about Saad for Milne - I too didnt think Saad deserved a call up last night........but I reckon Ledger has ALL pre season and wins his own ball with run FFS and can play through the middle where we got smashed when it mattered.

From Milnes output last night I'll take another genuine midfield option right now and rotate through the fwd pocket as opposed to a SPECIFIC fwd pocket who touches the ball 3 times and kicks a goal when the game is over.

Milnes been a legend for our club - just as Baker was but FFS get your head out of your @rses and call it as it is - THE END comes for all players, we are not a top 4 side it is now about the future and getting games into kids who deserve and can be part of our next tilt. I think Milne should not be a walk up start every week as he is now - those days are over for mine. He should still play and help with Saads and others development but not at the expense of youth as a certainty every week. Unfortunately, Scott Watters has this tough call......Ross Lyon knew they were coming and ran.

To suggest we keep playing players cause they have "credits"is absurd - you are judged on your output when you run out on to the ground NOW not for what you were able to do 3 years ago. The game moves on to fast for that.

The only dumb posters in this thread are those hangijg on to "glory days" (please refer Springsteen) long after those days are gone. Wake up.

Sorry but you have credits whatever position you are on the ladder otherwise do you drop Lenny if he plays 2 or 3 bad ones in a row. There is actually a thing called morale and dropping some players will not help that. Milney isnt anywhere near the top of his game but he has still been better that a few others. He certainly deserves one, two or even 3 more games and so he should get it. Only dumb posters want guys dropped when the options are pretty much nil and also only dumb posters dont understand credits are important for morale.

How many times you seen Lenny Hayes play 3 bad ones in a row? - theres dumb right there...


Credits/morale pffft.....morale is about players getting games WHEN THEY DESERVE them - Id argue continuing to obsessively play the same players week in week out based on past performance is far worse for morale than not rewarding some weird credits system based on good games played 3 years ago???. What an odd idea. Just imagine Ledger and co when you say..."sorry fellas we are continuing to play Milne after multiple mediocre performances cause he has "credits".......trust me, it'll be good for morale...." it almost negligently ignores the future of our club.

IF we dont have a ready Milne replacement then look at your structures - but dont keepy carrying players cause its not a good enough reason BTW Schneider will be back in a few..........I reckon Milnes spot is not guaranteed...

I dont think the point is whether Lenny has played 3 bad ones in a row it is whether Lenny stays in if he ever does and IMO he does because some players just deserve credits. At the moment Milne still deserves a game because he isnt in our bottom 6. Everyone wants young guys to play and then we get stupid threads like Siposs was disappointing. No he wasnt. That is his standard. The gap between Sandy and the Saints is enormous and that is why I think Milney still deserves a game and again in my opinion he does have credits just as Ricky Ponting had before the India series last cricket season. Milney will repay us. He is still to good not to. Sorry but i really do like loyalty to some players.

[Teflon]

I like loyalty also - blind loyalty I have a problem with cause we use it as an excuse not to make some genuinely hard, uncomfortable decisions.

I abslolutely reckon the amount of BIG games that Stephen Milne has not shown up for has exhausted these "credits" as Malthouse/Thomas have stated often. I also reckon structurally having a single, specific fwd pocket helps make us "easy" to play against.......they know what our tricks are by now..its why Hawks are toying with Rioli as a mid...

I also have a problem with simply saying..."ok so he's not bottom 6...therfore he stays".......simplistic. I totally agree re Sipposs - out of his depth last night so for mine he gets another run cause he IS the future (see.....your bottom 6 theory right there takes a hit...)

I also have a problem with "bottom 6" theory cause it ignores structure. I absolutely think we couldve rotated a Ledger or even Steven fwd at times last, added more flexibility with mid rotations and still got more output than what Milne gave us....while playing youth and developing.

As I said before, we are not flag contenders - that doesnt mean Milne never plays again........but it should mean he is also no longer walk up start.

[plugger66]

I like loyalty also - blind loyalty I have a problem with cause we use it as an excuse not to make some genuinely hard, uncomfortable decisions.

I abslolutely reckon the amount of BIG games that Stephen Milne has not shown up for has exhausted these "credits" as Malthouse/Thomas have stated often. I also reckon structurally having a single, specific fwd pocket helps make us "easy" to play against.......they know what our tricks are by now..

I also have a problem with simply saying..."ok so he's not bottom 6...therfore he stays".......simplistic. I totally agree re Sipposs - out of his depth last night so for mine he gets another run cause he IS the future (see.....your bottom 6 theory right there takes a hit...)

I also have a problem with "bottom 6" theory cause it ignores structure. I absolutely think we couldve rotated a Ledger or even Steven fwd at times last, added more flexibility with mid rotations and still got more output than what Milne gave us....while playing youth and developing.

As I said before, we are not flag contenders - that doesnt mean Milne never plays again........but it should mean he is also no longer walk up start.

I agree with what you say but I also think playing Milera and Saad together without Milne will not help them at all. Yes they get experience but they also get free games. They need to deserve a game. Milera does, Saad doesnt. Also Jack does rest forward but not often as he is clearly our third best mid and we need his speed in there. Ledger, well he is disappointing IMo. He will get his chances but IMO it should be for a young player. We dont need to many small bodies in our team. We need to be competitive and Milne has a much bigger body than any of Sadd, Milera and Ledger.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I cant understand people calling for Saad to replace Milne. Sure Saad kicked a goal with his first kick in AFL, but after that what did he do? In a full half of football he had two other kicks and two hand passes. Not enough to hold his place I would think. And why was he selected ahead of Ledger? Anyone comment on that?

At the ground I thought Saad was actually very good with the few times he did get the ball and a large reason for that was his extreme pace. From my POV his possessions were very damaging, even though he didn't have many of them. He is seriously, seriously fast and that speed is what we're lacking in the forward line at the moment. And it wasn't just his running speed that was impressive, but also the speed with which he disposed of the ball and how quickly he made his (smart) decisions. His tenacity and chasing and second and third efforts are reportedly very good as well, so I'm hoping we get to see more of him with Schneider out and especially if Armo happens to miss as well.

He obviously hasn't been going as well this year as he was last, but hopefully he's on the improve and will get more of it if he gets a run of games and finds last year's form again (or surpasses it).

[Freebird]

Better than retarded Clinton Jones who does not kick and cannot kick and sounds like the retarded kid in your classes that could play da sportz good but waz a tard

Shut your damn mouth, you fool.

He sounds like a real nerd..would have thought he had all this shtt punched out of him at school but then again he's on the end of a keyboard....even has a self opinionated id, wow

[Scollop]

Id argue continuing to obsessively play the same players week in week out based on past performance is far worse for morale than not rewarding some weird credits system based on good games played 3 years ago???. What an odd idea. Just imagine Ledger and co when you say..."sorry fellas we are continuing to play Milne after multiple mediocre performances cause he has "credits".......trust me, it'll be good for morale...." it almost negligently ignores the future of our club

And that's more the issue than one or two match payments that Milne might miss out on. The future needs to be planned and we MUST find ways of giving the current youth every opportunity to play in the seniors. Saad was recruited as a ready made player. He earnt a spot on our list by already proving himself in the VFL...what's the point of asking him to keep proving himself in the VFL? Surely fans don't think that team sport and in particular at this professional level you'd get team morale being lowered because one of your 'mates' has been dropped for poor form?!!! I reckon the confidence and morale of the younger blokes would be a lot more sensitive. The senior blokes should be more resilient. Surely fans need to realise the impact on the individuals confidence levels that NOT playing Saad and Ledger and Winmar and Sipposs and Cripps will have on THEIR morale. What about the hunger and the motivation to give it your all and chase and tackle and smother and gut run. Who would be hungrier to impress would you say - the youngsters or Milney? How motivated is Ray and Peake and Gilbo and CJ and Grammy and Joey and Milney compared to the younger blokes? Perhaps a kick in the backside and not seeing the usual extra funds in the bank account might be a good motivator to lift and work that extra bit harder...

I like loyalty also - blind loyalty I have a problem with cause we use it as an excuse not to make some genuinely hard, uncomfortable decisions.

I abslolutely reckon the amount of BIG games that Stephen Milne has not shown up for has exhausted these "credits" as Malthouse/Thomas have stated often. I also reckon structurally having a single, specific fwd pocket helps make us "easy" to play against.......they know what our tricks are by now..its why Hawks are toying with Rioli as a mid...

I also have a problem with simply saying..."ok so he's not bottom 6...therfore he stays".......simplistic. I totally agree re Sipposs - out of his depth last night so for mine he gets another run cause he IS the future (see.....your bottom 6 theory right there takes a hit...)

I also have a problem with "bottom 6" theory cause it ignores structure. I absolutely think we couldve rotated a Ledger or even Steven fwd at times last, added more flexibility with mid rotations and still got more output than what Milne gave us....while playing youth and developing.

As I said before, we are not flag contenders - that doesnt mean Milne never plays again........but it should mean he is also no longer walk up start.

Great post. Dropping Milney and Dal in 2008 was symbolic and doing the same to Milney now, won't harm our chances of being a contender again if we are good enough next year and beyond. Milne might play a game or two in VFL, but won't be in the same boat as Ray and Peake. Ray and Peake will struggle to get back for consistent senior games.