Wilkes BS

[damienc]

A lot of BS has been written on this forum of late on the Wilkes substitution c**k up. Some of the crap I have read has even questioned the credentials of Scott Watters as coach. I mean really.The guy has been in the job for five minutes. He has publicly admitted he made a mistake. Are you telling me only a public flogging will suffice? What BS. Those critics seem to conveniently forget that Watters is a huge fan of Wilkes. He is the reason Wilkes is playing AFL footy and playing at St Kilda.

The Weagles thought he was finished but Watters threw him a lifeline. Clearly Watters has a lot of faith in Wilkes and against the Dees Beau did a lot to justify that faith. So to the Watters critics take your chill pills and ease up on the guy.

He made a mistake. The guy is still learning how to 1) coach St Kilda post Ross Lyon and 2) How to coach at an AFL level. He's showing a lot of promise as a coach so let's all just relax a little and give him the benefit of the doubt.

Hello, we still won the game and Polo was a more than capable substitute.

[sainterinsydney]

I don't care about the substitute thing now; all I care about is Wilkes playing next week.

[Verdun66]

All correct Damien.

[defacto]

A lot of BS has been written on this forum of late on the Wilkes substitution c**k up. Some of the crap I have read has even questioned the credentials of Scott Watters as coach. I mean really.The guy has been in the job for five minutes. He has publicly admitted he made a mistake. Are you telling me only a public flogging will suffice? What BS. Those critics seem to conveniently forget that Watters is a huge fan of Wilkes. He is the reason Wilkes is playing AFL footy and playing at St Kilda.

The Weagles thought he was finished but Watters threw him a lifeline. Clearly Watters has a lot of faith in Wilkes and against the Dees Beau did a lot to justify that faith. So to the Watters critics take your chill pills and ease up on the guy.

He made a mistake. The guy is still learning how to 1) coach St Kilda post Ross Lyon and 2) How to coach at an AFL level. He's showing a lot of promise as a coach so let's all just relax a little and give him the benefit of the doubt.

Hello, we still won the game and Polo was a more than capable substitute.

well said. absolutely spot on.

he also has brought in stanley and given him a role that suits him. rejuvenated kozi and hasnt butchered him in the ruck which alot of people were calling for in the pre season.

he's sent well established players back to the VFL to find form (i.e. peake, ray, gram).

he has brought in newnes (who would have picked that). the kid has played 3 games and has been backed by the coach. would have been easier for watters to go down the established player path and given ray or peake a game. the great thing about newnes is he didnt look that lost and got better with each game. i expect we'll see more of this from watters. barring injury players like ross, saad, siposs, winmar will all get games this year.

he was instrumental in bringing mcphee across (no way would this have happened under ross), which at this stage is paying dividends. IMO this has been the best decision our club has made in years. we will see some long lasting benefits from this arrangement. my only worry is mcphee wont be there for long and will be poached to be senior afl coach or a very senior assistant enroute to a senior coaching gig.

[The Jeff]

A lot of BS has been written on this forum of late on the Wilkes substitution c**k up. Some of the crap I have read has even questioned the credentials of Scott Watters as coach. I mean really.The guy has been in the job for five minutes. He has publicly admitted he made a mistake. Are you telling me only a public flogging will suffice? What BS. Those critics seem to conveniently forget that Watters is a huge fan of Wilkes. He is the reason Wilkes is playing AFL footy and playing at St Kilda.

The Weagles thought he was finished but Watters threw him a lifeline. Clearly Watters has a lot of faith in Wilkes and against the Dees Beau did a lot to justify that faith. So to the Watters critics take your chill pills and ease up on the guy.

He made a mistake. The guy is still learning how to 1) coach St Kilda post Ross Lyon and 2) How to coach at an AFL level. He's showing a lot of promise as a coach so let's all just relax a little and give him the benefit of the doubt.

Hello, we still won the game and Polo was a more than capable substitute.

This.

[The Redeemer]

The coaching staff made a mistake on Saturday night however rules are rules and if paperwork has to be given to a steward then do be it.

It is just one of those things and had no impact on the final result.

Yes Wilkes played well however it was a mistake so why is there such a massive thread of people bitching and moaning and playing 'pretend coach'?

[dragit]

Yes Wilkes played well however it was a mistake so why is there such a massive thread of people bitching and moaning and playing 'pretend coach'?

Probably because we removed the most dominant forward in the match, when the game was completely in the balance, while 2-3 others would have been clearly better options. If we'd lost 4 points to the bye, it would have been a monumental mistake, rather than an annoying one…

[matrix]

what and this couldnt be posted in one of the other numerous threads??

people worried their post wont be read or commented on so start a thread???

[dragit]

what and this couldnt be posted in one of the other numerous threads??

people worried their post wont be read or commented on so start a thread???

yes

[matrix]

[The Redeemer]

Yes Wilkes played well however it was a mistake so why is there such a massive thread of people bitching and moaning and playing 'pretend coach'?

Probably because we removed the most dominant forward in the match, when the game was completely in the balance, while 2-3 others would have been clearly better options. If we'd lost 4 points to the bye, it would have been a monumental mistake, rather than an annoying one…

But we did not lose so we all move on and that is that?

Rules are rules from the AFL steward and if a player gets a bit of the ball or kicks a few goals after the paperwork has been filed and approved well so be it. Nothing can be done from either end.

[Johnny Member]

I thought Watters said just after it happened that he had a twinge which was why he was subbed?

[stinger]

yep...i think that's called a porkie....

[gringo]

A lot of BS has been written on this forum of late on the Wilkes substitution c**k up. Some of the crap I have read has even questioned the credentials of Scott Watters as coach. I mean really.The guy has been in the job for five minutes. He has publicly admitted he made a mistake. Are you telling me only a public flogging will suffice? What BS. Those critics seem to conveniently forget that Watters is a huge fan of Wilkes. He is the reason Wilkes is playing AFL footy and playing at St Kilda.

The Weagles thought he was finished but Watters threw him a lifeline. Clearly Watters has a lot of faith in Wilkes and against the Dees Beau did a lot to justify that faith. So to the Watters critics take your chill pills and ease up on the guy.

He made a mistake. The guy is still learning how to 1) coach St Kilda post Ross Lyon and 2) How to coach at an AFL level. He's showing a lot of promise as a coach so let's all just relax a little and give him the benefit of the doubt.

Hello, we still won the game and Polo was a more than capable substitute.

I asked for him to be lynched on the point post from the night the lights went out at Waverley. As someone not prone to public hangings these days I may have been being sarcastic and defending him through that noble medium. public floggings are very titillating as a spectacle but really do we need one when we have the Mick malthouse show?

[BigMart]

Hes a well paid professional coach in charge of a multi million dollar organization with 40 000 members. He won the job fair and square after a thorough process. He demands performance from players.

Its only fair he be under the same scrutiny, actually more. He would (has) gladly accepted that responsibility.

If he was afraid of criticism (or immune to), he is in the wrong profession, his mistakes will be examined, part of the job.

Being a new coach, doesn't excuse him for poor performance, and if he doesn't measure up, he will go the way of many coaches...... He will be marked NO different to any league coach IMO and his job is to compete against them and win, simple as that.

IMO there is not enough evidence to suggest one way or the other whether he is performing well, time will tell. I personally like the way he presents.... And he has got a lot right

On Wilkes..... The coaching staff F***ed up.

Polo is an opinion based argument which is only assessed after the fact by results/performance

[The OtherThommo]

I would have thought the responsibility for correctly processing the paperwork for an interchange lay with someone other than the senior coach. All clubs have a range of people in positions entailing responsibilities for aspects of putting the side on the ground and ensuring it complies with various requirements before, during and after the game. Either that, or there are a helluva lot of people picking up remuneration without any accompanying responsibility.

The bulking up of all clubs football departments has been justified on the basis that senior coaches need to concentrate on preparation, game style and building a team of people who can execute an agreed strategy.

Watter's error was in attempting to cover someone else's arse, someone with, what I would term, football/match day management responsibilities. For that, Watter's deserves a very light tap on the wrist. What Chris Pelchen should do, as the football director, is immediately review whether the people with responsibility for getting the paperwork right know the rules and reg's. Anderson said we could have submitted another piece of paper to sub someone else at another time. Either our people who fill out the bit of paper didn't know that or just got confused.

[Dr Spaceman]

I would have thought the responsibility for correctly processing the paperwork for an interchange lay with someone other than the senior coach. All clubs have a range of people in positions entailing responsibilities for aspects of putting the side on the ground and ensuring it complies with various requirements before, during and after the game. Either that, or there are a helluva lot of people picking up remuneration without any accompanying responsibility.

The bulking up of all clubs football departments has been justified on the basis that senior coaches need to concentrate on preparation, game style and building a team of people who can execute an agreed strategy.

Watter's error was in attempting to cover someone else's arse, someone with, what I would term, football/match day management responsibilities. For that, Watter's deserves a very light tap on the wrist. What Chris Pelchen should do, as the football director, is immediately review whether the people with responsibility for getting the paperwork right know the rules and reg's. Anderson said we could have submitted another piece of paper to sub someone else at another
time. Either our people who fill out the bit of paper didn't know that or just got confused.

To be fair, Watters "fib" was told to a Ch7 boundary rider while he was walking from the ground after the 3/4 time break.

Probably had a fair bit on his mind at the time.

[The Redeemer]

Hes a well paid professional coach in charge of a multi million dollar organization with 40 000 members. He won the job fair and square after a thorough process. He demands performance from players.

Its only fair he be under the same scrutiny, actually more. He would (has) gladly accepted that responsibility.

If he was afraid of criticism (or immune to), he is in the wrong profession, his mistakes will be examined, part of the job.

Being a new coach, doesn't excuse him for poor performance, and if he doesn't measure up, he will go the way of many coaches...... He will be marked NO different to any league coach IMO and his job is to compete against them and win, simple as that.

IMO there is not enough evidence to suggest one way or the other whether he is performing well, time will tell. I personally like the way he presents.... And he has got a lot right

On Wilkes..... The coaching staff F***ed up.

Polo is an opinion based argument which is only assessed after the fact by results/performance

They did not stuff up though.

At that stage Wilkes had 2 kicks 2 marks 1 handball and a 2 goals in wet conditions that were not suitable for a tall forward. The time was towards the end of the 3rd quarter.

It is not the coaching panel's fault that between the time they launched the paperwork needed to substitute him out and the time they interchanged him that he kicked a great goal and nearly snagged another.

The rules are there and whether or not the to-be-subbed player turns it on in the few minutes or not is really inconsequential as surely if the player was in the game more than he would not be subbed?

It just seems like you have ranted for no real reason and come up with an idea that it has to be someone's fault.

[samoht]

I agree that the conditions suited a smaller player coming in for a tall and was a good move to make.

However Wilkes may have had a low possession count, up until the paperwork stage, because we weren't directing the ball to him.
Once we started to look for him, he marked everything coming his way.
His clean marking in wet conditions and his kicking for goal ... impressive stuff.
Kosi should not be an automatic in, for Wilkes (even though he did play well vs Dawson and took him apart one on one).

[Teflon]

To suggest Watters is not at fault and it's "someone who does the paperworks" job is rubbish - Watters lives and dies by the on field moves he makes from the box it's his responsibility to KNOW when he can/ can't substitute a player... next we'll blame "Joe the camera man"

[The Redeemer]

To suggest Watters is not at fault and it's "someone who does the paperworks" job is rubbish - Watters lives and dies by the on field moves he makes from the box it's his responsibility to KNOW when he can/ can't substitute a player... next we'll blame "Joe the camera man"

It is not the point though. After the paperwork is lodged it cannot be taken back. It was lodged prior to Wilkes kicking a goal, a behind and having a few touches and marks.

If the paperwork is lodged that is where it ends and it is bad luck.

[kosifantutti]

To suggest Watters is not at fault and it's "someone who does the paperworks" job is rubbish - Watters lives and dies by the on field moves he makes from the box it's his responsibility to KNOW when he can/ can't substitute a player... next we'll blame "Joe the camera man"

It is not the point though. After the paperwork is lodged it cannot be taken back. It was lodged prior to Wilkes kicking a goal, a behind and having a few touches and marks.

If the paperwork is lodged that is where it ends and it is bad luck.

Not according to Adrian Anderson. He says you can lodge the paperwork and then do whatever you want. Which makes the whole concept of lodging paperwork a little bit silly.

[sunsaint]

To suggest Watters is not at fault and it's "someone who does the paperworks" job is rubbish - Watters lives and dies by the on field moves he makes from the box it's his responsibility to KNOW when he can/ can't substitute a player... next we'll blame "Joe the camera man"

It is not the point though. After the paperwork is lodged it cannot be taken back. It was lodged prior to Wilkes kicking a goal, a behind and having a few touches and marks.

If the paperwork is lodged that is where it ends and it is bad luck.

Not according to Adrian Anderson. He says you can lodge the paperwork and then do whatever you want. Which makes the whole concept of lodging paperwork a little bit silly.

its staggering that even at this juncture with the coach admitting it was a mistake, there are some still saying it was not a mistake...?
the second "mistake" was not knowing the rule about overturning the lodgement of paperwork...
people, we have just emerged from a five year murky mystical bubble, lets not go back to not being able to speak our mind.
at least we now have a coach that is comfortable enough to be open and tell it like it is.

[MCG-Unit]

what and this couldnt be posted in one of the other numerous threads??

people worried their post wont be read or commented on so start a thread???

Yep for sure, and how many threads could this apply to? Attention seeking and post count is all important

On topic, I reckon it was a mistake to sub off Wilkes, to which the coach has admitted - however when it rained maybe they wanted to go smaller and for more run.....

[markp]

at least we now have a coach that is comfortable enough to be open and tell it like it is.

It's a storm in a teacup, but first he said it was a tweak, then he said they tried to reverse it but couldn't, when apparently they could have.... and people still can't agree on what happened.

Maybe sometimes don't explain and don't apologise is a better philosophy... at least till you get your story straight.