Schnieder should become our Guerra

[older saint]

With the development of Milera and Stanley and the poor disposal off half back i would bring Schnieder in when fit and play him off half back. He is a beautiful kick, smart enough not to get exposed and can work forward to sneek a goal when required.

Our defenders as they stand only Fisher and Goddard are quality kicks.
Blake, Simpkins, Geary are sevicable
Gilbert and Polo are poor

We need better skills off half back and Schnieder will fill that role brilliantly

[bergholt]

We need better skills off half back and Schnieder will fill that role brilliantly

schneider is 175 and 79.

guerra is 182 and 90.

seven centimetres and eleven kilos is a massive difference. maybe schneider's defensive skills make up for it - but i've never seen much evidence of those.

[8856brother]

Does he need a rug?

[Dave McNamara]

We need better skills off half back and Schnieder will fill that role brilliantly

schneider is 175 and 79.

guerra is 182 and 90.

seven centimetres and eleven kilos is a massive difference. maybe schneider's defensive skills make up for it - but i've never seen much evidence of those.

In 2004 the manchild played ~10 quite incredible games, before inexplicably losing the plot. (Maybe a bit of a Samson thing happening ) From then on he really annoyed me, coz everytime he was in a hot contest he would fall over which took the heat off him, but of course took him outta' that contest (including when he had an, admittedly difficult, opportunity to put us into a GF).

For someone who enjoyed taking out unsupecting players, I found this particluarly weak on his part.

Since going to the P&P he has improved, but I still notice that he can be very keen to pass the ball off to some other patsy team mate when things are hot.

So sorry to pull the rug out on the OP's very solid points, but despite being a good kick, I wouldn't want him. IMHO I'd rather have Schniedes, and in the front half of the ground the majority of the time.

[skeptic]

Personally I've always felt Guerra is somewhat overrated at Hawthorn and has benefited from being a part of a good team.

People always talk about how he is tough and adds mongrel but I've never thought much of him as a ball winner and even though he hits hard, don't really rate his ability to stick a tackle.

What he does do really well is utilise his speed, especially in close; has really good skills over 30-40m and decent skills longer distance and is generally clean with his hands.
Has really worked hard on his fitness since leaving us and I think he follows direction and structure really well. Knows what to do, where to go etc

He's a limited player who plays a position that utilises his strengths and minimises his defiencies

Real credit to Hawthorn... shows exactly how good the football department at that club are. Had a need for the role and found a player with the attributes to fill it. Even though he'd spent 2 years as a forward with us.

IMO as far as Schneider goes, I've been thinking along the same lines myself.

Adam has been a bit of an overrated player for us... immensely talented but has always been hugely inconsistent and never really consistently taken games apart. His major weakness has always been ball winning abilty. And I'm not talking about picking up the ball spilling out of the fact or alonmg similar lines.

That's why I've never really understood our desire to push him into the middle, especially whilst our ability to win contested ball has dropped off to a degree.

Playing Adam on a HBF to utilise his speed and and precision.

HB Schneider, Fisher, Gwilt - who do you man up?

He demands accountability, whilst reducing his own defiency of contested ball.

Contrastingly you have say
HF Milera, Siposs and maybe even Saad in the forward half

Worth a go IMO

[SainterK]

I was hoping he'd become our.....umm, who is a good example of an outside mid that more often than not delivers inside 50?

[gringo]

I have advocated the push for Schnieder back and my reasoning is that guys that use the ball well help build the attack. He is quicker than he looks Schnieds, can kick long and straight, has some evasive skills which is a requirement now with zones- backs are now having to avoid being tackled and having space closed off around them. The reinvention of small forwards isn't just Guerra, Leon Davis was a revelation when he went back. Size isn't important if Davis can play it. Aussie Jones and the Shaw brothers aren't giants. Gwilt, Goddard and Fisher can use the ball well but the rest of our backs struggle to kick straight. An extra clean ball user back there spreads the load.

[bergholt]

I was hoping he'd become our.....umm, who is a good example of an outside mid that more often than not delivers inside 50?

griffen, maybe? there's not that many of them, to be honest - most are more like a judd and play both inside and outside.

[Con Gorozidis]

probably a bit late now. schneids is 28 and a clver small fwd.. guerra was guerra since he was 21.
speakikng of guerra i watched a video of "afl hard hits" the opther day and guerra was involved in several when he was a saint. still no idea why GT let him go.

[skeptic]

probably a bit late now. schneids is 28 and a clver small fwd.. guerra was guerra since he was 21.
speakikng of guerra i watched a video of "afl hard hits" the opther day and guerra was involved in several when he was a saint. still no idea why GT let him go.

pbly coz he got about 15 kicks in his last 15 games

[JohnMac]

If we need a Guerra we should have held on to the original

[mr six o'clock]

probably a bit late now. schneids is 28 and a clver small fwd.. guerra was guerra since he was 21.
speakikng of guerra i watched a video of "afl hard hits" the opther day and guerra was involved in several when he was a saint. still no idea why GT let him go.

pbly coz he got about 15 kicks in his last 15 games

Agree
but i wonder if GT ever thought of playing him as a backmen
probably not cos we already had baker

[skeptic]

I think he was viewed as a player that didn't work hard enough and a bit of a boozer... Poor results followed so rather than turn him around they sacked him

I wasn't too upset that he left and have never really felt he was that good at Hawthorn... that being said he has been a permanent fixture for them and amazing value

[St DAC]

May not have been that good but still has one more flag than most of our list ... and a decent chance this year too.

Still a very good ball user is Guerra. The idea of running Schnieder in the Aussie Jones role has some merit IMO, although when Jimmy is back he can be a very good designated kicker.

[meher baba]

Lyon played Schneider down back a bit in 2008. He hardly got a touch. I don't know if any of you have noticed, but Schneider's main problem is that he's not that fit. He's also short and not that strong. Because of his good skills and quick thinking, he's reasonable value as a small forward, and that - plus short bursts in the midfield before he runs out of puff - are all you're ever going to get from IMO.

Watters clearly prefers a taller forward line setup to Lyon. I suspect that, when Schneider is fit again, he might come back to the senior side in place of Milne. Or not at all.

[loris]

Lyon played Schneider down back a bit in 2008. He hardly got a touch. I don't know if any of you have noticed, but Schneider's main problem is that he's not that fit. He's also short and not that strong. Because of his good skills and quick thinking, he's reasonable value as a small forward, and that - plus short bursts in the midfield before he runs out of puff - are all you're ever going to get from IMO.

I think Schneider's lack of puff might have something to do with him being an asthmatic.

Now I don't know for a fact that he is........ I'm just guessing he is.

Have you ever heard him speak? He takes breaths halfway through a sentence, and really wheezes and suck the air in when speaking. Many an asthmatic speaks & breathes like he does.

[SainterK]

I remember reading somewhere he has problems with acid in his legs?

That's why some games he literally collapses towards the end.

[plugger66]

I remember reading somewhere he has problems with acid in his legs?

That's why some games he literally collapses towards the end.

Got the same problem but mine is in my nose.

[Con Gorozidis]

We need better skills off half back and Schnieder will fill that role brilliantly

schneider is 175 and 79.

guerra is 182 and 90.

seven centimetres and eleven kilos is a massive difference. maybe schneider's defensive skills make up for it - but i've never seen much evidence of those.

In 2004 the manchild played ~10 quite incredible games, before inexplicably losing the plot. (Maybe a bit of a Samson thing happening ) From then on he really annoyed me, coz everytime he was in a hot contest he would fall over which took the heat off him, but of course took him outta' that contest (including when he had an, admittedly difficult, opportunity to put us into a GF).

For someone who enjoyed taking out unsupecting players, I found this particluarly weak on his part.

Since going to the P&P he has improved, but I still notice that he can be very keen to pass the ball off to some other patsy team mate when things are hot.

So sorry to pull the rug out on the OP's very solid points, but despite being a good kick, I wouldn't want him. IMHO I'd rather have Schniedes, and in the front half of the ground the majority of the time.

so passing off to a team-mate when ur hot is a bad idea? better to get caught holding the ball and give away the free.
hes a lovely kick. surely hed make our best 22.

[saint6709]

I have been thinking we need someone in this role - i was thinking yarran, shaw, harbrow mould - all those guys have torn us up at times - pre season was thinking del or maybe as an out of the box milera - who is now doing well up forward - could still possibly take the running half back role - but think Schneider could also be tried - has great footskills and possibly the best footy brain in the club

[saint6709]

In light of my last post above - i forgot to mention geary - I saw him play a practice match for Sandy V Frankston a few years back and and thought - he needs to be delisted - was hopeless - he has been very very good this year IMO - so is doing the above role - but doesn't have the kicking skills of the above guys - even though his efficiency has seemed to also be very good this year

[8856brother]

Lyon played Schneider down back a bit in 2008. He hardly got a touch. I don't know if any of you have noticed, but Schneider's main problem is that he's not that fit. He's also short and not that strong. Because of his good skills and quick thinking, he's reasonable value as a small forward, and that - plus short bursts in the midfield before he runs out of puff - are all you're ever going to get from IMO.

I think Schneider's lack of puff might have something to do with him being an asthmatic.

Now I don't know for a fact that he is........ I'm just guessing he is.

Have you ever heard him speak? He takes breaths halfway through a sentence, and really wheezes and suck the air in when speaking. Many an asthmatic speaks & breathes like he does.

Too many darts. That''s all it is Loris.

[hungry for a premiership]

I used to like the idea of the schneiderman playing the same role Aussie played, almost like a quarterback, running out of the backline and using his deadly left foot to create forward thrusts.


I suggested this idea on Saintsational a year or two ago and was roundly slammed, because I drew a comparison between him and Aussie, and I was left in no doubt by most posters that despite his attacking capabilities, Aussie was a liability in the back-line due to his un-accountability for his opponent, and that if schneider is anything like this (looks highly likely), then it's best to keep him out of the backline where such great damage can occur.


In fact, as many posters pointed out, it was schneider himself who was playing on Aussie in the '05 prelim, and because Jones wasn't a good enough pure defender and didn't man up tight enough, it was the not so friendly neighbourhood schneiderman who got off the leash in the last quarter that night and sent daggers through the hearts of his future team-mates, fans and employers. That's the downside to having a purely attacking player as a defender.

If schneider is in the mold of aussie, I don't think his optimum position is in defense. He hasn't gone the natural defensive capabilities or mindset, and games can be lost if he isn't able to negate his opponent, regardless of whether he's creating forward thrusts. Besides, we've got bj to deliver out of the backline, gwilt is a good user too and simpkin looks decent. Raph? Geary??


For me, if you're going to play Schneider anywhere other than in the forward 50, it's on the ball, either in the center as a rover or coming in off a wing or forward flank.