So where are we at

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plugger66
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So where are we at

Post: # 1209815Post plugger66 »

We have lost 2 out of 4 games and lets face it most of us here would have had us at least 3 and one if not 4 zip. We arent good enough to finish top 4 and by a fair margin. The 2 sides who put pressure on us have come out on top due to our players inability to keep their skills up and more importantly some very ordinary decision making

We can still squeeze into the eight but the over the next 5 games and looking at our form you would expect us to really only beat the Dees. That will leave us with 3 wins and 6 losses. The year will then probably be over.

I think we are going down the right track in playing young guys but I aint as bullish as some here about some of those guys. And I aint judging first year players. That would be unfair. Having said that Milera is clearly our best young players but he is only young AFL wise and not on his birth certificate. Anyway we should keep playing as many young guys as possible but they must deserve a game and in the main the young players coming in should only replace the other young players needing a rest. Even last night IMO we ran out of puff during quarters and that could be the younger bodies getting tired as the quarter goes on.

Finally I dont think we should consider tanking at all. It hasnt helped Melbourne and anyway we aint going to get a top 5 pick whatever we do. We need to try and win as many games as possible to give players that winning feeling and that is why I wouldnt be saying lets drop guys like Blake and Milne because they arent our future but what they are is experienced players who will help the less experienced during games.


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209819Post SainterK »

I maintain around 6th or above.

We will win a couple of those four 'hard' games.

People said alot about where we'd finish this time last year, and look how that ended up.

I like how things are tracking, and IMO, the inclusion of a couple of good ball users in Jimmy and Schneids won't go astray in the next month or so.


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209820Post Moods »

Good post Plugger. I agree with all of this. Was looking at the fixture last night, and really hard to see us winning many of the games ahead. Also, I reckon to be honest, if we lost it anywhere last night it was our young blokes. For the betterment of our club we have to keep playing them though. Many of the mistakes that were made through lack of composure were the young guys. Newnes gave away a couple of goals through costly turnovers in the middle of the ground. Cripps really should have nailed that first goal in the last 1/4 and even Milera lost his composure running into goal in the last.

I still think our own pressure is good and we have good targets up fwd. We can sneak a surprise win against a top team, but I can't see us doing it consistently. I have us somewhere b/w 7th and 12th depending on injuries.


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209821Post Kernal75 »

Were about 8-13 IMO. We need to keep a balance of youth and experience for the rest of the year and get some games into those who we think can make the grade outside of our current top 7. That being said, guys that have been on the list for 3-4 years and not showed anything should be moved on. All good things come to an end and we have that look about us. We should start building towards our next opportunity without tanking, but time to usher in the next generation.


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209823Post plugger66 »

SainterK wrote:I maintain around 6th or above.

We will win a couple of those four 'hard' games.

People said alot about where we'd finish this time last year, and look how that ended up.

I like how things are tracking, and IMO, the inclusion of a couple of good ball users in Jimmy and Schneids won't go astray in the next month or so.

I like your optimision but you probably havent thought we would lose a game since Dave McNamara played. To finish 6th or above you need 12 other sides below you. Of course this is my opinion but we need to somehow be ahead of some of these sides. Geelong, Hawks, WCE, Freo, Pies, North, Sydney and Carlton. That is going to be tough and I know a couple of those sides are below us at the moment but if you look at who they have played compared to us then it is chalk and cheese. We lost to PA who I rate a 10-14 side and Freo who I rate a 4-7 side but at home.


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209830Post dragit »

Very sensible of you plugs...

I'm not advocating tanking, however if we come to the conclusion that we are not going to seriously challenge, & maybe Blake & Milne will finish up this year, then it would be a good idea to audition for their replacements.

How many of Gram, Ray, Peake, Clarke, will be at the club next year?

We are in for a serious re-build, we need the lot, key backs, young key forwards, another ruckmen, and some more quality mids... Pure 'stopping' taggers are a thing of the past too, having a player who can't kick in the middle of the ground is too inhibiting, the amount of space that opposition sides are giving Jones is getting embarrassing...

Polo is certainly not doing enough to keep out a young guy for mine, Ledger, Ross, Siposs have to be close here?


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209834Post SainterK »

plugger66 wrote:
SainterK wrote:I maintain around 6th or above.

We will win a couple of those four 'hard' games.

People said alot about where we'd finish this time last year, and look how that ended up.

I like how things are tracking, and IMO, the inclusion of a couple of good ball users in Jimmy and Schneids won't go astray in the next month or so.

I like your optimision but you probably havent thought we would lose a game since Dave McNamara played. To finish 6th or above you need 12 other sides below you. Of course this is my opinion but we need to somehow be ahead of some of these sides. Geelong, Hawks, WCE, Freo, Pies, North, Sydney and Carlton. That is going to be tough and I know a couple of those sides are below us at the moment but if you look at who they have played compared to us then it is chalk and cheese. We lost to PA who I rate a 10-14 side and Freo who I rate a 4-7 side but at home.
Oh well

It's what I think.

I like where this side is going.

Many of the sides you've listed above has question marks.

It's not over until it's over.


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209835Post saintspremiers »

Good post plugs. And you are on the money re SainterK - she lives in fairyland I think!

Last year was a different coach with nowhere near as many developing players.

We need to try Saad Siposs for starters plus a few more to see where try are at.

Maybe we can sneak into 8th but only just. To think we could make 6th even
Is a massive call.

How the heck can we beat any of Carlton, Hawks or WCE (even at Etihad), given
Where we are at??

Sure, Gram & Gwilt return soon but we still need some
Kids in the side as part of the succession planning process.


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209838Post jays »

just make the 8


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209842Post Devilhead »

plugger66 wrote: Finally I dont think we should consider tanking at all. It hasnt helped Melbourne
Selective much???


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209843Post BigMart »

Will struggle to make the 8.... That 4 points was critical.

Top 8 sides will beat Port away and Freo at home....

Problem with the rebuild.....

Of our 5 elite
One is 32, one is 30, another is 29 and battered, the main one who is 27 could leave and finally there is a 28yo

Then our next group
A 30yo, 32yo, 29you and two players who cannot kick

It's deeper than just Blake and Milne who need replacing over the next 2 seasons.... We need to reload in 2013 I believe


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209846Post cwrcyn »

We sit in a long list of middle of the road teams (from 6th to 13th position). The difference is that most of those other teams have been developing younger players since 2008 and those guys are now in that 22 to 25 age bracket. This is our dead zone, as we have only a couple of quality players in that age bracket. We still have a quality core nearing the pensioner end of our list and this will keep us competitive until the end of 2013. It's critical that we, as much as posiible, exploit this year's draft, as it's apparently on par with 2001 in quality. This means trading away some players, even if it means just getting an extra 2nd round pick or two. Gram, Ray, and Peake can be moved on and we'd probably get a second and third round pick for all three. It may also means sacrificing one of our best, and I won't be surprised if Goddard has made his decision to leave, so that should take care of that. It's imperative that we get 4 picks inside the top 30.

Outside of that, we must try to keep these older players playing for as long as possible. However, in 2014, I suspect that only half of our players who are 28 or older (Fisher, Jones, Dal Santo, Montagna, Koschitzke, Riewoldt, Hayes, Blake) will still be with us. We have already drafted to cover for the midfielders in that group (Newnes, Ross, Ledger, Markworth, Cripps, Crocker), but there is a real problem in covering those taller players, and this needs to be a real focus for our recruiters this year.

The best approach is keep playing as competitively as possible with a strong core of quality senior players leading the way for a the new group, ensuring they learn good habits and understand the level of intensity that is required.

In 2013, I would like to see Siposs, Ledger, Simpkin, Newnes, Ross, Markworth, Cripps & co. become more regular players at the expense of Gram, Ray, Peake, Polo, Jones, Clarke, & Armitage. This should at least give us some kind of settled transition.

From 2015, you would expect no more Jones, Hayes, Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Blake, and possibly Fisher, Dal Santo, and Montagna. We only have replacements for half of those players within our system at the moment, with no guarantee that they'll be as good or anywhere near as good. It's now starting to sound a bit scary. If we don't get some quality talls onto our list in the 2012 and 2013 drafts (200 game players), then from 2014/2015 we will be in real trouble.

So, it's a balancing act for Scott Watters and co. Development of our younger players is a must, with some tough decisions required over some senior players for the long term benefit of the football club. Chris Pelchen has successfully managed the building of two premiership lists and I'm quietly confident that he hasn't lost his mojo. It may be his biggest challenge yet, though.








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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209849Post Richter »

Mostly common sense points, but then you go and spoil it with the comments about Milne and Blake. For mine we have the balance about right in terms of blooding new players, but that means that if we want to continue doing that, when the likes of Schneider, Jimmy and Gram come back then we'd want them to take the place of other experienced players, not the developing youth.

Perhaps Scott will stick with experience over the next month... but if we go 1-4 as expected then I expect Milne in particular to get the axe. Otherwise all he will be doing is taking up the spot of
a Milera or Sipposs. That would not be sensible.


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209853Post plugger66 »

Devilhead wrote:
plugger66 wrote: Finally I dont think we should consider tanking at all. It hasnt helped Melbourne
Selective much???

Well I am hardly going to say a side who it has helped if i disagree with us tanking. Anyway we arent going to finaish in the bottom 4 this year so IMO we shouldnt tank. I havent ruled it out in the long term just this year.


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209857Post ShanghaiSaint »

plugger66 wrote:We have lost 2 out of 4 games and lets face it most of us here would have had us at least 3 and one if not 4 zip. We arent good enough to finish top 4 and by a fair margin. The 2 sides who put pressure on us have come out on top due to our players inability to keep their skills up and more importantly some very ordinary decision making

We can still squeeze into the eight but the over the next 5 games and looking at our form you would expect us to really only beat the Dees. That will leave us with 3 wins and 6 losses. The year will then probably be over.

I think we are going down the right track in playing young guys but I aint as bullish as some here about some of those guys. And I aint judging first year players. That would be unfair. Having said that Milera is clearly our best young players but he is only young AFL wise and not on his birth certificate. Anyway we should keep playing as many young guys as possible but they must deserve a game and in the main the young players coming in should only replace the other young players needing a rest. Even last night IMO we ran out of puff during quarters and that could be the younger bodies getting tired as the quarter goes on.

Finally I dont think we should consider tanking at all. It hasnt helped Melbourne and anyway we aint going to get a top 5 pick whatever we do. We need to try and win as many games as possible to give players that winning feeling and that is why I wouldnt be saying lets drop guys like Blake and Milne because they arent our future but what they are is experienced players who will help the less experienced during games.
Nice post p66,

I was having a think about this as well this morning. I personally think that i am expecting to much at the moment. We had our chance in 09. our team had a plan played to it. Now we have aging players a new coach new devaloping game plan and I think we need time to gel. The cats pulled it out of the bag last year but I don't think this can happen for us. We're a work in progess again. Looking forward to Saad coming into the fold.

Hope to see us hit top 8, but out of all the games to lose, it really pisses me off we had to lose last night. After seeing the dogs game i was expecting more last night.

some tough games are around the corner.


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209859Post BigMart »

Stk, Carl,wce, Haw, WB

Been the beneficiaries of bottoming out and finishing bottom 4 a few times

Melbourne lost scully and J.Watts is struggling....that hurts....how would we view melbounes list with Scully and Natinui

Richmond also stuffed it up with well documented mistakes
Franklin would have sat nicely with Martin, cotchin, delidio and Riewoldt..... Intact I still think they are not bad

Both those clubs unfortunately picked the wrong coaches.....Wallace and Bailey


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209860Post St Igmata »

Not flag challengers and not wooden spoon challengers.
Somewhere in between.


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209865Post saintspremiers »

St Igmata wrote:Not flag challengers and not wooden spoon challengers.
Somewhere in between.
Gee huge call that one :roll:

Clearly, the bottom 4 are GWS, GC, Melbourne & prob. Dogs.

Top 4: Carlscum, WCE, Hawks, Cats


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209866Post St Ick »

BigMart wrote:Stk, Carl,wce, Haw, WB

Been the beneficiaries of bottoming out and finishing bottom 4 a few times

Melbourne lost scully and J.Watts is struggling....that hurts....how would we view melbounes list with Scully and Natinui

Richmond also stuffed it up with well documented mistakes
Franklin would have sat nicely with Martin, cotchin, delidio and Riewoldt..... Intact I still think they are not bad

Both those clubs unfortunately picked the wrong coaches.....Wallace and Bailey
And how did the Pies end up with Thomas and Pendles? Im really not sure where our season is heading, but at a guess we will beat up on bottom teams and win/lose some really close ones against decent teams which will no doubt take another 10 years off my life... expected finish 6-8 again.


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209874Post taz »

We are we at? ..... we are 7th on the ladder.

Where will we be at the end of the round? .... 7th or 8th

Where will we be at the end of the season?....on current form we will finish 13th or 14th.

Will we tank? .....No, because not in the letter or spirit of the game.


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209878Post older saint »

Being 2-2 now could cost us a finals spot as i think 7-11 will be a game or 2 and percentage ( which is good) .

Port loss will be a killer and last night is the one you need to win to be at 7 rather than 10.

Will beat Melb who are a rabble , but cannot see us getting within 5 goals or Haw, Carl and WC and then i think Syd is in there also which if in Melb is like last nights game, if in Syd will be a loss.

The draw is a little better after that but will the damage already be done.

Positives so far to me:
Geary - looks like he can fill a role small defender with pace
Milerea - moves well, pace reads game well, x factor
McEvoy - contiues to develop and i think in a few more years time will be in the top 4 ruckmen in the league
Kosi - looks rejuvinated
Hayes - did someone say he has missed a year of footy.. no cant be
Stanley - amazing what a bit of faith seems to do in a player


Negatives/concerns:

Foot skills- usualy suspects , which hopefully will see a very different line up by round 12 if continues
Dropped 2 must win games in 4
Ledger - concerned that he is often pulling up sore. Shows heaps i think but this is a worry.
Class of half back is missing . Polo, Geary , Blake, Gilbert, none of which anyone would want kikcing for their lives, honest workers but poor disposal kills. Hence why Newnes and Cripps have been tried there.
Montagna -Poor start - is he set to be the Goddard of 2012. Nota good year to do it if you want to stay as Goddard must be kept.


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209880Post Junction Oval »

Some good posts here today. It looks like a top 8 finish at best to me, especially if we continue to blood younger players.

I favour a "balanced" approach of blooding new players along the way, which will result in us winning some, losing some, particularly against the stronger teams. To "hang in there" with our experienced players will make things worse in the longer term. To "tank" sounds good, but is very dangerous and as others have said, there are no guarantees that this will work. Our best experienced players deserve some support. Long term, Clubs are built around these people (Geelong).

I sat in the front seats at ground level last night (I normally sit higher up). The intensity and speed of play is simply amazing. When play is close, you can see the hesitation in the younger players eyes and the physical intimidation because of their lighter frames. There is a huge difference between them and the likes of say a Sam Fisher - it will take a few years for the younger guys to be able to compete at the top AFL level.

Our future directional strategy will inevitably be dictated by the Board, which Watters will have to follow, so watch very closely over the next month. Financial impact will be at the top of the Board's mind. I would like to think that the "balanced" approach will be supported by most Members - there is no quick or easy road to success.


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209881Post magnifisaint »

I don't know where we'll finish but I think Scott Watters will be better for St.Kilda's future than Ross Lyon would have been. I think it's all worked out for the best. At least Watters will try to improve the skill of the club and not temporarily fix holes in the dam wall only for something else to leak.


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209890Post SaintPav »

The way Freo were able to go through the middle after having so many numbers back made us look slow. That is enough evidence for me that we are not up to it. Ross also gave other teams a blue print on how to beat us. I can't see us winning more than 11 games.

No point in tanking but need to start planning for the future and get game time into Ross, Saad, Siposs, Ledger over the year. It's going to be a gradual approach. Hopefully it's not going to be too painful.


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Re: So where are we at

Post: # 1209937Post The Redeemer »

The two losses will hurt us however I am happy to back our boys to jag one of the blues, hawks and eagles. This is probably blind optimism however we have a decent run at it after those three tough games.

To me last night was two teams that are probably 5-8 battling it out. What does everyone think? Both teams looked good however the ordinary was pretty ordinary.

Umpires were a non-factor last night and that being said I thought the game was actually quite entertaining?

It looks like Newnes is due for a rest and that is okay. Cripps should stay as the sub and will surely continue to get a bit fitter the more he plays.

Why did Clancee Pearce burn us last night? He was on Polo to begin with and burnt him so went a bit further towards the action and subsequently had a great game. This guy is nothing special however he was everywhere.

I had a right chuckle when Ross Lyon manufactured Dean Polo as the lose man in defence for a little while early on. Another average game for DP.

Give Milne a few more weeks at least before writing him off. That being said he looks a little off the pace at the moment. He should come good however the end is closer than the beginning for Milne and goal-scoring options do not grow on the proverbial trees.

What is Milera's nickname? So far us Brisbane Saints (look us up on facebook...it is a gripping facebook groups) we have Tez Milez, Mildew, Disease and Maleria. Can someone please assist?

Considering where we are at we need to swap and youngen for a youngen and would be disappointed if this did not happen at selection. If Sippy Downs is showing good form in the VFL it is time for him to build on his 5 games last season. It is also time for Ledger to come in with hopefully a lack of little man syndrome as in his small showing at AFL level he looks to be comfortable. Ahmed Saad anyone?

Three blokes right there that I believe can contribute straight away at AFL level. This issue is how do we balance them considering Gram, Schneider and Gwilt will be coming back soon and the three mentioned are best 18 players. Include the 3 youngens and that is 6 potential ins with only Newnes a probable out. Cripps?

Polo and Blake should go considering Gwilt and Ledger's abilities so that is 4. No doubting injuries will play a part in who comes in and out however.

That being said, supporters should be content with where we are at. We are a finals side (in my opinion) and if we were to get a win it would be a good year.

Where do we go from there though? How do we get youngens into the side with our quality core?

Buggered if I know...


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