Decisions, decisions!!

[3rd generation saint]

Actually, Big Mart we did play in Tassie late 09 and beat Hawthorn with half a side.
But despite that extra experience out in the open, we didn't win the big one.
All this crap about playing in certain conditions makes no difference, plenty of NFL teams play there home games in both indoor and out door stadiums, but they manage towin the big one despite what stadium they play in.
In the end, the team that wins is the one that played the best on the day.
We went to Tassie purely for the money, when we no longer needed the money, we moved.
I do agree that we would have a better chance against Port if we had played them at Etihad instead of York Park, and because of that we may have played them at the MCG instead of Football Park.
Then again, we may have won 2010 if the ball had bounced end over end instead of at right angles.
It's all history, that can't be changed, but winning is more important, because if you are winning you generally make money.
As for the other points, Harv's wasn't ready, where would you propose we move to in St'Kilda, Junction oval, great and during the lead up to the Grand Prix we probably wouldn't be able to train there and there would be no where to build the facilities we got at Seaford. Why do you think Essendon is going to Tullamarine?
We would eneded up playing most of our games at Etihad anyway even if we had chosen the MCG because Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton would have squeezed us out.

[Dr Spaceman]

So we pulled out of Tassie, but are going to NZ....

Interesting...

Like some poor recruiting decisions, pulling out of Tassie (because our player preferred playing at the dome) will be a decision we rue, and watch others benefit from

It's not just because of the players.

Although it was good for those Tasmanian based supporters, and for those other supporters who love to travel interstate for a game, it wasn't neccessarily well received by the majority of members/fans. It simply represented a couple of games each year that they couldn't attend. And that was a bit harder to accept when we made a bit of a habit of losing those games.

From a distance it appears the Hawks have embraced the strategy however I'm sure there would have been a lot of angst at the time it was first announced. And I'm sure there are a lot of them who would still prefer it wasn't happening.

And then there's the psychology of the whole thing, which applies equally to any agreement to play home games outside Melbourne. It says we as a club are struggling to survive in our traditional backyard. And with a place like Tasmania, a football state without an AFL team is involved, supporters start to fear a relocation.

Just saying there's more to it than keeping the players happy.

[citywest]

I will never forgive Butters for pulling out of Tassie. But that is in the past and we now have a once in a lifetime opportunity with New Zealand. I hope we fully embrace NZ for the sake of our club. IMHO, I would love the club to do the following.....

1. Play 1 or even 2 pre-season games in NZ every year.
2. Play 2 home games in NZ from next year onwards and asses every 5 years.
3. Set-up some sort of academy in NZ working with the best under age athletes that want to transition to AFL.

If the club does the above I will forgive them for the Tassie debacle.

[3rd generation saint]

Gee City west, a real debacle, since we left tassie we've been in the finals, played off for two premierships, yeah the team just fell apart because of it.
Oh and with the exception of last year, we have been very profitable.
Just look how successful Richmond, Melbourne, Bulldogs and Roos have been selling games interstate.
In a few years, Hawthorn will be in a downward spiral and probably losing games there.
In fact, we beat them there in 09 with half a team.
I was one who was glad to see the tssie experiment put to bed.

[BigMart]

I am sure you speak on behalf of 10 000 plus stk who are Tasmanian

Poor Melbourne supporters having to go from 16 games in Melbourne down to 15!!! Bit different from going from 2 to Zero...

Hawthorn has been Lauded by The AFL, AFL Tasmania, Their fans and their Tasmanian fan base....the membership has increased due to the partnership......I'll repeat, their admin got it right. They make a last 1M per season for playing in Tassie whilst also guaranteeing them one less interstate trip elsewhere.

We could have made Tasmania a second home, grown our support for generations and learned to cope with the arduous conditions outside of the pristine indoor environment.

And I have followed stknforna long time......never thought Inwould ever hear....we didnt need the money.....

Just because you not broke, doesn't mean you never will be...

[BigMart]

P66

I have an idea on your footy knowledge....because I can read, and you had a few comments about cricket last year, remember Ed Cowan???

You do know what I do, I have nothing to hide, nothing keep secret. Many posters have met me, had a chat with me, even had a kick a round with some......

[plugger66]

P66

I have an idea on your footy knowledge....because I can read, and you had a few comments about cricket last year, remember Ed Cowan???

You do know what I do, I have nothing to hide, nothing keep secret. Many posters have met me, had a chat with me, even had a kick a round with some......

I do remember Dave Warner. I have nothing to hide either. A couple of people have met me. i know JB thinks highly of you when he met you. By the way tell me one cricket comment that was wrong. I have no idea what I said about Ed Cowen. Matter of fact I think I said nothing.

[BigMart]

Your memory must be poor, or selective....

I have never met JB as far as I know.....

[plugger66]

Your memory must be poor, or selective....

I have never met JB as far as I know.....

He said he met you. Just trusting what he said so it seems you may have the poor memory. Of course if you think I had a poor memory you could prove it. I certainly remember exactly what was said.

[BigMart]

I do believe someone criticized the selection of an opening partnership which was always doomed for failure....due to the inconsistent records, poor techniques and inexperience.

Someone else disagreed and asked for an alternative

Someone suggested The player who made 145 in six hours against the touring side, and who made 4 hundreds in 6 matches leading into the first test against NZ...and perhaps having some integrity in selection and make it performances based.

Within two tests, the selectors made the correction and we went from
A drawn series against the 7th ranked nation on our home turf.....to a four-nil whitewash against the third ranked nation.....
Saying that, the bowlers were significant.

But Ponting would have been happy with Cowans selection


Remember
John Sendon??

BTW
I do know that JB believes he met me, at Etihad....if it was when he was saying, I ran into B4E with a couple of my colleagues.... We had lost a friend who had wandered off and were looking for him.... We had a quick exchange
and then Had to find Buck.... Which we never did...funny story
I don't remember being introduced to anyone, I do remember my mates asking who B4E was and he seemed a character.
This was in about 6 or 7 years ago
Maybe JB is mistaken

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Wowalways the same thing on here how about moving forward instead of looking back ??? Last year Tassie had the biggest non melb supporter group for the club ( first time in a long time they beat WA ) the move out of Tassie was done so because we were in premiership mode .. I remember clearly being on this forum after we lost a game in Tassie and everyone was complaining how it's stupid playing games there when we want to win a flag and how the board of the club were muppets for agreeing to play there ... Really the club is in a no win situation with some so called fans ...

As for BM and plugger66 no one give a flying F*ck about your cricket argument ... Get a room or something

[BigMart]

How did the move out of Tassie help us when we were in 'premiership mode'?

[saintsRrising]

Wowalways the same thing on here how about moving forward instead of looking back ??? Last year Tassie had the biggest non melb supporter group for the club ( first time in a long time they beat WA ) the move out of Tassie was done so because we were in premiership mode .. I remember clearly being on this forum after we lost a game in Tassie and everyone was complaining how it's stupid playing games there when we want to win a flag and how the board of the club were muppets for agreeing to play there ... Really the club is in a no win situation with some so called fans ...

Indeed that was the case, and at the time I certainly supported the club at the time in withdrawing....so I was wrong.

However hindsight from a financial perspective is that it has most likely been a bad move from the club....in part because since then it has also become clear how diabolical our "Home" stadium deal is.

The Hawks moved to Tassie and embraced it..

We went South with gritted teeth.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Indeed that was the case, and at the time I certainly supported the club at the time in withdrawing....so I was wrong.

However hindsight from a financial perspective is that it has most likely been a bad move from the club....in part because since then it has also become clear how diabolical our "Home" stadium deal is.

The Hawks moved to Tassie and embraced it..

We went South with gritted teeth.

I think you will find the hawks embraced the Tassie partnership because the deal they got from the Tassie government was significantly better then the deal we got ( with that the hawks commitment to Tassie is also significantly larger ) our deal was a good money earner but not in the size of the hawks current Tassie deal

[BigMart]

That would again suggest better administration elsewhere....

Moving out of Tas is one of at least 5 major decisions that were poor, definitely in hindsight and in some cases inevitable....

I am a strong critic of decisions coming out of moorabbin/seaford because they are often short-sighted and poor, its like the club is run by people who believe in get rich quick schemes..... history tells us this is not far from the truth...
Problem is the truth hurts many staunch club supporters and admin defenders...

I say, hold them to account.... Only way we will stop history repeating....

And before apologists start banging on about making grand finals being a measure of us being successful, and good decision led to that......understand that we made grand finals on the back of a band of superstars picked up in the draft period between 1998 and 2002 when we were s***....

Geelong and Hawthorn also had great drafts.....and happen to win grand finals

[perfectionist]

We should have worked harder on Peter Hudson in 1966 to come across to us in 1967! (I think we originally signed him but let the form 4 run out.)

[No1_Saint]

Until the club develops a significant non football based revenue stream we are at the mercy of a crowded sponsorship market, a fickle membership base, a s*** house stadium deal, a biased schedule and a woeful assets base which is draining money rather than adding to the coffers.

Tasmania didn't work because the football department was hostile the concept from day one. New Zealand won't work because the club and the AFL doesn't have a genuine interest in building the sport there long term.

In reference to the Docklands move...let's not forget that Wayne Jackson and his cronies point blank lied to the club about the benefits to the club...and more importantly the break even point is significantly higher than what was promised. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Wavo a 15,000 crowd break event stadium with the AFL promising Docklands to be a 24,000 break even point deal?

The club can only work with what it has...the last couple of years with bad publicity at the beginning of the year has not been helpful with sponsors. Thank god 2012 started with a positive. We also need at least one block buster game....why can't we play Hawthorn on a Easter Monday permanently...or Richmond like we used to? Remember Waverley full to the brim in 1998 against Richmond on Easter Monday...71,488...could you imagine that at the G?

I think the club needs to actively mend bridges with the fans that left after the move to Moorabbin, to Waverley and then finally to Docklands. Rather than an expensive membership campaign targeting new people...lets bring back the factions of the last 60 years back into the St Kilda fold. A big love in at Junction? lol

[st_Trav_ofWA]

That would again suggest better administration elsewhere....

Moving out of Tas is one of at least 5 major decisions that were poor, definitely in hindsight and in some cases inevitable....
I am a strong critic of decisions coming out of moorabbin/seaford because they are often short-sighted and poor, its like the club is run by people who believe in get rich quick schemes..... history tells us this is not far from the truth...
Problem is the truth hurts many staunch club supporters and admin defenders...
I say, hold them to account.... Only way we will stop history repeating....
And before apologists start banging on about making grand finals being a measure of us being successful, and good decision led to that......understand that we made grand finals on the back of a band of superstars picked up in the draft period between 1998 and 2002 when we were s***....
Geelong and Hawthorn also had great drafts.....and happen to win grand finals

the deal hawthorn gotmayhave been offered to the saints but let's remember we only see the good points of that agreement with hawthorn , the hawks have to do a fair bit for the Tassie money and while it looks to an outsider as a big win for the hawks it may actually be not as rosey as it seems ... The club makes mistakes but so do every club the fact we support this club makes us more critical of the mistakes we make

[saintbrat]

... The club makes mistakes but so do every club the fact we support this club makes us more critical of the mistakes we make

and more aware
heard this morning of Essendon Members of several years Not getting renewal notices---- all clubs have these issues- we just know of our because we care about them and the complainers come to forums to do it.

[Moods]

No advantage, on what front....... Hawthorn seem to think otherwise, and I think I know whose administration I'd back.

It was a pathetic, weak, short sighted poor decision....simple as that

Not overly emotive much?

I thought at the time it was a no brainer. We were trying to win a flag FFS. York Park was costing us valuable wins every year, rather than almost guaranteed wins at our fortress. Who cares why we didn't play well, we just didn't. Poor reflection on the players? Maybe. But it definitely cost us. At that point if we had won the flag, membership wouldn't have been a problem. Very easy to say in hindsight it was a poor decision. Made perfect sense to 99% of our membership at the time.

[bergsone]

Too late now,lets look forward,not back

Can see Harves coaching somewhere down the track,may be us may not

[Dr Spaceman]

Too late now,lets look forward,not back.

Can't Tasmanians do both at the same time?

[joffaboy]

I do know that JB believes he met me, at Etihad....if it was when he was saying, I ran into B4E with a couple of my colleagues.... We had lost a friend who had wandered off and were looking for him.... We had a quick exchange
and then Had to find Buck.... Which we never did...funny story
I don't remember being introduced to anyone, I do remember my mates asking who B4E was and he seemed a character.
This was in about 6 or 7 years ago
Maybe JB is mistaken

No I am not mistaken, but hey it was as you say 6 or 7 years ago, and while you gave me a poor impression, you say you were distracted so that may be the possibly false impression.

Anyway, really one impression 7 years ago doesn't mean I am a expert on the type of person you are. A long time ago, and really whatever the impression then would be different now.

Dont know if it gets anyone far (talking to you P66) taking the work of an anonimous internets posters impression of another anonimous internet posters character from years and years ago.

I am sorry I ever mentioned that meeting.

[bergsone]

Too late now,lets look forward,not back.

Can't Tasmanians do both at the same time?

Too good mate

[saintmont]

The saints were garanteed $350,000 to play in tassie. When the deal ended which the saints mutually agree to (it was a bit political as well)l I remember the club sending e-mails out to members to support the team against teams like port and freo when they play at etihad because of the money the Tasmanian Government garenteed. I am from Tasmania and being to etihad and watched port and there has being less than 20,000 and the club has made a loss.