What needs to happen to settle down the defence again?

[SainterK]

27 scoring shots against isn't ideal.

Bakes, Dawson gone.

Blake appears not guaranteed 22 anymore?

Been a bit of shuffling this preseason.

I guess the decision of who, what, where and how will be made now they have seen everyone.

I'm not saying he is the be all end all, but Raph is actually a good one on one 'defender' whatever you think of him as a creative player.

Wonder how they will line up Rd 1?

[noob]

maybe its the midfield contributed to the 27 shots against. Poor disposal into the forward breaking down turning into a quick return.

[philtee]

Time, practice, experience, need to happen.
Gwilt's return at some stage will be a bonus.
Pies pressure in the first half was enormous - full credit to them.
Pies look cherry-ripe for Round One, and on track for a Top 4 finish.
Saints look about 4 weeks away...just a pity the season starts in 2.

[plugger66]

Time, practice, experience, need to happen.
Gwilt's return at some stage will be a bonus.
Pies pressure in the first half was enormous - full credit to them.
Pies look cherry-ripe for Round One, and on track for a Top 4 finish.
Saints look about 4 weeks away...just a pity the season starts in 2.

Well if that is the case we need a better footy department. It may be as simple as our time is up. Lets face it it is either coming this year or next.

[whiskers3614]

Maybe all the post-Lyon media hype has lulled us into a false sense of security'
Could be the rebuild starts sooner than we hoped.
After all how many true "A" gtraders do we have?
On 2011 form I would argue only Fisher& Dal Santo.
Dead set can't expect Milney/Lenny to get any better after 30, BJ if he can conquer his demons.
Riewoldt?????

[bobmurray]

Our best defence hasn't been recruited yet...i'm reluctant to confine that thought to the defence though.

I hate it when we're worse than than the Roos

[SainterK]

So further injuries have really made the defence the most unsettled area of them all.

So for round one Scott has the choice from Simpkin, Wilkes, Gilbert, Fisher, Geary, Cripps, Dempster, Goddard, Blake, Winmar.

Gwilt, Raph, Gram all unavailable for at least another month.

I hadn't really though of the flow on effect of Scott playing a 6 man forward line either, and how that potentially impacts the defence.

[8856brother]

I don't want this to sound like I'm Raph bashing, because I actually like the way he takes the game on. I think Watters will install more confidence in him and let him express himself more than Lyon did. This will suit the way he plays.

My issue is, why is he always bloody injured. Him and his brother have never had a real crack at it. X's career was one after the other and it finally finished him. I'm more than worried Raph will never be fully fit again.

Shame as both are very talanted. Raph has the chance to stand up this year, but don't know if he will get on the park to take up the challange. if he does he will be miles behind everyone else again.

[desertsaint]

anyone who thinks a rebuild is in order hasn't been listening to watters. we're playing for finals, every year. and good to hear.

[Dr Spaceman]

I don't want this to sound like I'm Raph bashing, because I actually like the way he takes the game on. I think Watters will install more confidence in him and let him express himself more than Lyon did. This will suit the way he plays.

My issue is, why is he always bloody injured. Him and his brother have never had a real crack at it. X's career was one after the other and it finally finished him. I'm more than worried Raph will never be fully fit again.

Shame as both are very talanted. Raph has the chance to stand up this year, but don't know if he will get on the park to take up the challange. if he does he will be miles behind everyone else again.

"Hmmm..... No comment"

[whiskers3614]

Always Injured'
Best we blame the genes of the white parent.
Don't want to offend anybody now, do we?

[tweedaletomanning]

anyone who thinks a rebuild is in order hasn't been listening to watters. we're playing for finals, every year. and good to hear.

Spot on! He sounds VERY confident and said you will NEVER hear the phrase "development phase" come out of his mouth.

With some good strategic planning using free agency which is coming in, IMHO I see no reason to fall away badly
at all.

Well I'll guess we'll see soon if he can walk the walk......

[whiskers3614]

Got this second hand so can't vouch for authenticity
BUT, David Parkin is said to have misgivings about Watters as head coach'
AND selection process that hired him.

I AM NOT A TROLL!

[Con Gorozidis]

anyone who thinks a rebuild is in order hasn't been listening to watters. we're playing for finals, every year. and good to hear.

just saying something doesnt make it so unfortunately.
we are due a rebuild - we had our chances.
thats footy reality.
hopefully we can do an eagles and just go down for 2 years and get a couple of kpps.

[crippa2sipa]

we are due a rebuild

What do you mean "due"?
Last year we finished 6th - with Kim Duthie. Without Lenny. With Riewoldt a broken man.
This year Lenny is back. Riewoldt's feeling better. Goddard's hip is fixed. Ledger Crippa and Sipa are into their second year. There's Ross, Saad and Milera. And an army of coaches with millions to spend.
What is our excuse for being worse this year than last?

[whiskers3614]

SAme as excuse in '07.
Settling in new coach/gameplan.

[crippa2sipa]

SAme as excuse in '07.
Settling in new coach/gameplan.

That is a false analogy and a lame excuse.
Lyon radically overhauled our game plan to turn us into premiership contenders and taught our players the forward press when no-one had ever heard of it.
Beginning in 2010, Worsfold studied St Kilda's forward press. It took the Eagles a year and a half to learn it.

Watters, by contrast, is just looking to tinker.
Part of that tinkering involves returning our pressure levels to those of 2009, not teaching us anything new.
The other part involves continuing what Lyon began in the second half of last year when we became, at some cost to our defensiveness, one of the top 3 or 4 fastest playing-on teams in the comp.

[whiskers3614]

Watters told you that he is just going to tinker?
What are the messiah's plans for Freo, tinker/overhaul/some other revolutionary innovation?

[Teflon]

SAme as excuse in '07.
Settling in new coach/gameplan.

That is a false analogy and a lame excuse.
Lyon radically overhauled our game plan to turn us into premiership contenders and taught our players the forward press when no-one had ever heard of it.
Beginning in 2010, Worsfold studied St Kilda's forward press. It took the Eagles a year and a half to learn it.

Watters, by contrast, is just looking to tinker.
Part of that tinkering involves returning our pressure levels to those of 2009, not teaching us anything new.
The other part involves continuing what Lyon began in the second half of last year when we became, at some cost to our defensiveness, one of the top 3 or 4 fastest playing-on teams in the comp.

Its a fair "tinkering" that Watters has to do. Its one thing to say "Lyon started us playing faster"...its another to say he addressed the inherent issues that meant we were ineffective at playing this way...

Lets face it, he has to:

- Fix a dysfunctional fwd line ....Lyon failed to
- Radically overhaul our ball movement (fwds for a start as opposed to sideways/backways/any other ways)
- Somehow make a silk purse out of a sows ear with regard to players hitting a target with many who struggle to hit side of a barn (Ross failed to address this)
- Bleed in inexperienced youth who MUST deliver fast against an ageing core led by a CHF with dodgy knees and a 32 yr old midfield warrior who has peaked.
- Re-introduce that pressure Lyon built ...then lost last year...
- Deal with a kid holding down majority ruck solo

lets be clear - Ross didnt "set it up" and leave. He left with the full new "set up" required....ive no problem with that...gives Watters a chance to do it his way....but theres a bit to do....

[Teflon]

Got this second hand so can't vouch for authenticity
BUT, David Parkin is said to have misgivings about Watters as head coach'
AND selection process that hired him.

I AM NOT A TROLL!

Ahh David....what exactly would he know bout our club?

The guys so far removed he thinks St Kilda is part of NZ.

p!ssoff with your 'misgivings' to Hawthorn David - and ask why Clarko is buying into other clubs senior coaching appointments....

I'd be amazed if David had the goolies to publicly air his misgivings..

[SainterK]

Watters, by contrast, is just looking to tinker.
Part of that tinkering involves returning our pressure levels to those of 2009, not teaching us anything new.
The other part involves continuing what Lyon began in the second half of last year when we became, at some cost to our defensiveness, one of the top 3 or 4 fastest playing-on teams in the comp.

Early call

[crippa2sipa]

Watters, by contrast, is just looking to tinker.
Part of that tinkering involves returning our pressure levels to those of 2009, not teaching us anything new.
The other part involves continuing what Lyon began in the second half of last year when we became, at some cost to our defensiveness, one of the top 3 or 4 fastest playing-on teams in the comp.

Early call

I don't think so. I was paraphrasing Watters himself.

[crippa2sipa]

SAme as excuse in '07.
Settling in new coach/gameplan.

That is a false analogy and a lame excuse.
Lyon radically overhauled our game plan to turn us into premiership contenders and taught our players the forward press when no-one had ever heard of it.
Beginning in 2010, Worsfold studied St Kilda's forward press. It took the Eagles a year and a half to learn it.

Watters, by contrast, is just looking to tinker.
Part of that tinkering involves returning our pressure levels to those of 2009, not teaching us anything new.
The other part involves continuing what Lyon began in the second half of last year when we became, at some cost to our defensiveness, one of the top 3 or 4 fastest playing-on teams in the comp.

Its a fair "tinkering" that Watters has to do. Its one thing to say "Lyon started us playing faster"...its another to say he addressed the inherent issues that meant we were ineffective at playing this way...

Lets face it, he has to:
....
- Somehow make a silk purse out of a sows ear with regard to players hitting a target with many who struggle to hit side of a barn

That's nothing new. And it wasn't the issue being debated.
The issue is that the ammunition at our disposal to deal with problems we faced last year and this is far better this year than it was last. And so too is our draw.
Those who blame what they anticipate to be a slump on the need to "settle in a new coach/gameplan" are just looking for excuses where there are none.

[BigMart]

Not sure whether I agree or not with Parko...

But I know one thing.....he is NO idiot..

His record and experience speaks for itself, and having known the man through uni I have never heard a man with a more passionate yet intricate knowledge of football and coaching.... I take note when he talks, it's never rubbish

[SaintPav]

Parko is a legend so don't get me wrong but he has made comments in the past and on 774 which I thought were, to put it kindly, questionable.