Match thread vs West Coast.

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages to chat Saints Footy and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

Post Reply
AnythingsPossibleSaints
SS Life Member
Posts: 3152
Joined: Tue 02 Jun 2009 2:44am
Location: Next to what's next to me.
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Match thread vs West Coast.

Post: # 1196575Post AnythingsPossibleSaints »

Just because you put something in capital letters doesn't make it right.

And you consider a Geelong team that was missing 9 OF ITS PREMIERSHIP TEAM "close to full strength" do you? :shock: :lol: On top of that, "We had eight or 10 guys who were playing their first game for the season and I thought most of them played that way, like they haven't played any competitive footy," Scott said (of Geelong).
Richmond, on the other hand, were reportedly only missing one of their best team and for all we know could have improved this season. They won't always be down the bottom part of the ladder, especially with Dustin Martin dominating like he did, Riewoldt kicking goals and the likes of Cotchin and co playing well.

Carlton also had a reportedly very undermanned team (13 of their best 22 not playing and Judd and Waite were playing their first games back from injuries over preseason), compared to Brisbane's reportedly very strong team (only two "notables" missing) and Brett Ratten did not sound happy at all after the game, so I don't think things are going to plan for them either.

Collingwood were also missing about 8 or so of their best team, while Adelaide are clearly on a roll.

We, on the other hand, were missing only one (Gwilt) of our best 20 or so and the team we were playing were missing 8 (Kennedy, Glass, Lynch, Embley, Le Cras, Shuey, Gaff, Hurn) of their best 16 or so. So you're not really comparing apples to apples (although we have other mitigating circumstances that haven't helped, of course).

Not that what any other team is doing has anything to do with whether we're on track or not. I don't give a f*** whether they're going well or not.

If you disagree with any of my points then please feel free to correct them.

And if these games mean "nothing" then why were Chris Scott and Brett Ratten so unhappy and why were we so unhappy to have missed out on playing against Essendon last week?
Last edited by AnythingsPossibleSaints on Sun 11 Mar 2012 5:24pm, edited 2 times in total.


YOU GET WHAT YOU SETTLE FOR.
Leo.J
SS Life Member
Posts: 3127
Joined: Sun 27 Mar 2005 8:29pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 72 times

Re: Match thread vs West Coast.

Post: # 1196582Post Leo.J »

AnythingsPossibleSaints wrote:Some books are crap and you'll know it after one page. Not everyone needs to read a book all the way through, or a lot of the way through to know for sure if it's crap, or not something they'll want to read.

And this "nothing to gain from pre-season games" attitude is rubbish. There is in fact an area in between "nothing" and "everything" and pre-season games fall somewhere in there. You can gain essential match fitness, you can get more used to a game plan (especially a new one), you can try different things to see how they work, the newer members of the team can gain confidence and get used to playing at the higher, faster level, without having to do so with premiership points on the line and so on. There are plenty of things to gain, for those that see everything as an opportunity to better themselves and move forward. Teams that haven't won much in recent times also use them as an opportunity to get used to actually winning a match, which can become a habit. Apparently West Coast are one team doing that, wanting to build a "winning culture", according to what one of them said when interviewed after the match last night.

If your attitude was correct, then if there were no "compulsory" pre-season matches, no club would play a single game before round one, because there would be "nothing to gain" from them, but I guarantee you they would organise games amongst themselves, if the AFL didn't organise them for them. I hear that a couple of clubs even did this a couple of weeks ago, on top of the NAB Cup matches they were to play and I'm pretty confident they didn't do that because there was "nothing to gain" from doing so. I'm sure they just did it to waste their time and energy.
SainterK wrote: Geelong got smashed today.
Yes they did and this is what Chris Scott had to say about it: "It is hard to assess, but we're not happy," he said.

"We didn't come just to get a bit of match practice and not worry about the result. We expected to play better, the opposition were very good.

"We were poor, they were good.

"I would hate any of our players or coaching staff to think that it just doesn't matter because we wanted to play well and we played poorly, so that's a concern.

"You do need to be careful not to read too much into it, I'm not standing here devastated, but the competitor in me and the boys should be a little bit stunned because we want to play better than that."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/r ... 6295788978

And that's the thing. As far as I'm concerned, poor pre-season matches are only a concern if you went out there meaning to play well and be competitive and weren't. Geelong obviously did yesterday and that is why Scott was so unhappy. At least in their case they didn't have 9 of their premiership team out there, while Richmond were reportedly only missing Delidio, though.
I have no idea whether we went over there looking to play well and be competitive, but if we did, then that is a concern, because we were simply very, very poor and were not really very competitive, against the West Coast B-side, with a few of their A-side thrown in. If they had been as full-strength as us, it would have probably been an incredible thumping.

And even though we got some cheap goals in the last quarter, after WC had subbed off three of their few "stars" at 3/4 time, we still only managed to score 52 points (albeit in a shortened match), which is a sign that we still have much to work on in that regard.

The heat and our lack of fitness and match fitness were obviously factors, but I think we just have an awful lot to work on in the next few weeks. I fully expect we will and hopefully we'll hit the ground running, but we really do look to be coming from a fair way back. That's all I'm personally saying.

It sounds you are writing the season off after round 3 of the nab cup?


AnythingsPossibleSaints
SS Life Member
Posts: 3152
Joined: Tue 02 Jun 2009 2:44am
Location: Next to what's next to me.
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Match thread vs West Coast.

Post: # 1196584Post AnythingsPossibleSaints »

Well that is childish. Where have I said anything remotely like that? Please point it out and I'll correct it because that's not what I believe at all.

Can a team not be going well 3 weeks before the season starts and not turn it around in time to be in contention come finals time?

I'm not in the "we're going crap so we're going to have a crap season" camp, but I'm also not in the "I've got my head in the sand and think all is roses at the moment and we're exactly where we want to be and these games mean nothing" camp.

I'm in another camp of "we're not going well at the moment and have an awful lot to work on to get to where we want to be", which it also appears Scott Watters is in.


YOU GET WHAT YOU SETTLE FOR.
Leo.J
SS Life Member
Posts: 3127
Joined: Sun 27 Mar 2005 8:29pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 72 times

Re: Match thread vs West Coast.

Post: # 1196589Post Leo.J »

AnythingsPossibleSaints wrote:Well that is childish. Where have I said anything remotely like that? Please point it out and I'll correct it because that's not what I believe at all.

Can a team not be going well 3 weeks before the season starts and not turn it around in time to be in contention come finals time?
How can you tell if we're not going well?

Do you know what we we're expecting to achieve last night?

It's NAB cup, it means nothing IMO.

If you want to read anything from it go nuts.

Sounds like you're keen just keen for an argument.


Your saying we're going babdly based on last night... I'm saying you can't tell it's NAB cup.


AnythingsPossibleSaints
SS Life Member
Posts: 3152
Joined: Tue 02 Jun 2009 2:44am
Location: Next to what's next to me.
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Match thread vs West Coast.

Post: # 1196593Post AnythingsPossibleSaints »

I can tell because I've watched pretty much every game of footy St Kilda have played in the last 15 years (NAB Cup and Premiership season) and you know when they're playing well or not. It's not like it's some great secret. But I did also specifically say in an earlier post that I wasn't aware of what their objectives for last night were, although I don't believe we meant to go that badly and be outplayed that much, by a significantly undermanned side. And it wasn't just last night, our game against Sydney we were also smashed and they scored far too easily against us. If we did mean to be so poor in those games then fair enough.

I was wondering the same things at this time last year, though, but was reassured by the likes of you that "practice match form means nothing", yet it clearly can be an indication of how you're travelling, largely dependent, as I said, on how you are wanting to perform in them, which can be very different from club to club.

Hence Chris Scott and Brett Ratten being very unhappy with how their teams went yesterday, for instance. If NAB Cup games meant "nothing" as so many "experts" on here are crowing, they wouldn't have given a s*** and we wouldn't have cared that we didn't get to play last week, but they did and we did.

I'm not going to keep saying the same things over and over again, though, because I have better things to do than "argue". If you or anyone else wants to misinterpret what I'm saying and put words in my mouth that aren't there, then you can "go nuts" as you suggested. I really don't care. If you believe we're going as well as we want to be/can be then that's great.
Last edited by AnythingsPossibleSaints on Sun 11 Mar 2012 4:30pm, edited 1 time in total.


YOU GET WHAT YOU SETTLE FOR.
Leo.J
SS Life Member
Posts: 3127
Joined: Sun 27 Mar 2005 8:29pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 72 times

Re: Match thread vs West Coast.

Post: # 1196597Post Leo.J »

AnythingsPossibleSaints wrote:I can tell because I've watched pretty much every game of footy St Kilda have played in the last 15 years (NAB Cup and Premiership season) and you know when they're playing well or not. It's not like it's some great secret. But I did also specifically say in an earlier post that I wasn't aware of what their objectives for last night were, although I don't believe we meant to go that badly and be outplayed that much, by a significantly undermanned side. And it wasn't just last night, our game against Sydney we were also smashed and they scored far too easily against us. If we did mean to be so poor in those games then fair enough.

I was wondering the same things at this time last year, though, but was reassured by the likes of you that "practice match form means nothing", yet it clearly can be an indication of how you're travelling, largely dependent, as I said, on how you are wanting to perform in them, which can be very different from club to club.

Hence Chris Scott and Brett Ratten being very unhappy with how their teams went yesterday, for instance. If NAB Cup games meant "nothing" as so many "experts" on here are crowing, they wouldn't have given a s*** and we wouldn't have cared that we didn't get to play last week.

I'm not going to keep saying the same things over and over again, though. If you all want to misinterpret what I'm saying then you can "go nuts" as you suggested. I really don't care. If you believe we're going as well as we want to be/can be then that's great.
Ok, so you think last night meant something, I don't.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.


AnythingsPossibleSaints
SS Life Member
Posts: 3152
Joined: Tue 02 Jun 2009 2:44am
Location: Next to what's next to me.
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Match thread vs West Coast.

Post: # 1196599Post AnythingsPossibleSaints »

Where else are they going to find a better place to put the new game plan into practise before the season starts then? Or isn't that important? Do you seriously think that if we went into the season with no practise matches, while every other team got to play them, we would start the season on level footing with them, especially with us having a new game plan to get used to?

And if praccy matches mean "nothing" why were Chris Scott and Brett Ratten so unhappy with how their teams went yesterday? Do you know better about how important these games are to a teams preparation to the season than they do?


YOU GET WHAT YOU SETTLE FOR.
User avatar
WinnersOnly
SS Life Member
Posts: 3059
Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 10:24pm
Location: Canberra

Re: Match thread vs West Coast.

Post: # 1196601Post WinnersOnly »

Gees anythingpossiblesaints settle down mate ! I dont know if you have given the heat and our lack of match practice enough credence. Yes WCE had some big players out but given the heat they were probably better off playing their younger running players. Given that they have been training in that heat all off season I think it gives them a ridiculous advantage. The same as a Melbourne team playing in the tropics.

We were not great but all is not lost when you think of the output we got from our key players - almost nil. What worried me was our lack of any apparent system and spread what so ever. But given how defensively drilled the have been during the RL period it will take some time to change IMO. All is not lost just wait and see how we look after round 4 !


SAINTS another day older another day closer to the Holy Grail!
User avatar
prwilkinson
SS Hall of Fame
Posts: 1999
Joined: Tue 21 Sep 2010 12:17pm
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 132 times

Re: Match thread vs West Coast.

Post: # 1196605Post prwilkinson »

I thought we looked alright really considering it was 37 degrees and we were constantly fiddling around with the players on the park. Didn't seem to play any real forward structure which I found interesting... Might be saving that one for the real stuff. Why are people crying so much? St.Kilda got thrashed by 65 points a week before the 2009 season and then went on to win 18 straight.... Travelling over to play West Coast at Subiaco in 2012 may end up being the toughest away game for the year..... for ANY team. At least we've had a hit out over there already. Gees... Nic Nat... What a freak of an athlete that man is. Great to watch.


SainterK
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 21057
Joined: Thu 14 Aug 2008 9:53pm
Location: Melb

Re: Match thread vs West Coast.

Post: # 1196606Post SainterK »

It's really not a big deal.

Did anyone see Scott give a quick interview before the third quarter?

Very clear about what was the objective going in, very clear it was hot and he wasn't going to take any risks that weren't neccessary, even said he kept them in the rooms for longer because of the heat, and very clear that every player had a preplanned amount of minutes regardless of the scoreline.

People can disregard that if they like, Chris Scott can say what he likes about Geelongs loss, the fact is Watters said the above when quizzed about what St Kilda wanted to get out of the match.

It's not rose coloured, it's just how it is.

I will agree that the forward line and ruck doesn't seem to have clicked at this point, but given rotations and planned substitutions last night it's really hard to grasp who, what, where and how at the moment.


jays
Club Player
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sat 09 Aug 2008 10:58pm
Location: games
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Match thread vs West Coast.

Post: # 1196617Post jays »

wait to the real stuff then complain


Leo.J
SS Life Member
Posts: 3127
Joined: Sun 27 Mar 2005 8:29pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 72 times

Re: Match thread vs West Coast.

Post: # 1196620Post Leo.J »

AnythingsPossibleSaints wrote:Where else are they going to find a better place to put the new game plan into practise before the season starts then? Or isn't that important? Do you seriously think that if we went into the season with no practise matches, while every other team got to play them, we would start the season on level footing with them, especially with us having a new game plan to get used to?

And if praccy matches mean "nothing" why were Chris Scott and Brett Ratten so unhappy with how their teams went yesterday? Do you know better about how important these games are to a teams preparation to the season than they do?
So it's official then, you think we are in trouble based on last nights NAB cup game...


Old Mate
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 5624
Joined: Wed 15 Jun 2011 7:06pm

Re: Match thread vs West Coast.

Post: # 1196627Post Old Mate »

I think Waters would be looking for two things from the NAB cup:

1. Effectively implement his game plan; and
2. See improvement from the younger players.

He knows blokes like Roo, Goddard and Dal Santo will rise when the proper season starts. They are professionals...just easing themselves into the start of the season...use other star players from opposition clubs as examples if you will.

Obviously implementing the gameplan will take time. At this stage that is my only real concern. It may take a while.

The loss verse WCE means little IMO.


User avatar
Sick Nal Danto
Club Player
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed 28 Sep 2011 3:00pm

Re: Match thread vs West Coast.

Post: # 1196647Post Sick Nal Danto »

So to sum up the last few pages

We were poor, lost to a weakened opposition, but can't take it too seriously

IMO, this game can't be judged because we don't know the true intentions of the coach

Games can only be judged when both opposition are 100% looking for a win

This only happens in the season proper


User avatar
samuraisaint
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 5941
Joined: Sun 25 Sep 2011 3:23pm
Location: Outside Lucky Burgers
Has thanked: 862 times
Been thanked: 801 times

Re: Match thread vs West Coast.

Post: # 1196661Post samuraisaint »

Sick Nal Danto wrote:So to sum up the last few pages

We were poor, lost to a weakened opposition, but can't take it too seriously

IMO, this game can't be judged because we don't know the true intentions of the coach

Games can only be judged when both opposition are 100% looking for a win

This only happens in the season proper
This.

maybe last night means nothing - maybe it means something, we won't know for a while yet.

At least it wasn't for premiership points. But I will tell you this, our pre-season this year has been notably low key. Perhaps this is part of Watters' strategy ...

I would prefer us to go into Round 1 against Port a mystery rather than Port being revved up and ready for us, which has happened in the past.


Your friendly neighbourhood samurai.
Teflon
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 23247
Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
Has thanked: 741 times
Been thanked: 1800 times

Re: Match thread vs West Coast.

Post: # 1196665Post Teflon »

Im not sure what this game means but Im not a believer in sides playing ordinary football and just "flicking the switch" come rd 1....

Gut feel says it will take some time to learn Watters style.....Port Rd 1 could be interesting.


“Yeah….nah””
Post Reply