Ross Lyon on The Couch this Monday

[asiu]

.his complete lack of intuitive willingness left me despairing a few times over the journey
but
he was the coach and he had my trust

.much of the methodology left me cold.
but
he was the coach.

.i am thankful he's with freo
coz the long term success from survival of the club is my priority.

.i'll take not winning another as long as we are real and here

... the headline .... 'Saints are a class act' ..... t'was music to my ears.
I Am Happy.

[Shaggy]

Another hilarious thread. As I have said many times, dont leave our club controversial or you will suddenly be poor at what you did. Doesnt matter that those same people said this guy was the god of coaching even last year.

Exactly Plugger. What frustrates me. People just cant accept the fact that he was a very good coach. Seems who ever is in the club at the current time is Amazing but once they are gone.. Never good.

No-one I have read has said RL wasn’t good.

I have no problem with you thinking and expressing that RL was really good.

IMO a really good coach would have delivered a premiership with the list RL inherited. The same applies with Freo.

You should not have a problem with me thinking and expressing that RL was good only.

I have only been posting because C2S has been trying to paint MN and the Saints admin as incompetent.
He has been misleading the kids on this site like Spinner to the real world.

RL is good, competent, but has flaws. He deserved and was offered another contract for the rebuild and turnaround but he is not perfect. The offer from Freo was out of this world and good on him to get himself out of financial trouble.

IMO it is good result for RL and us.

[8856brother]

Another hilarious thread. As I have said many times, dont leave our club controversial or you will suddenly be poor at what you did. Doesnt matter that those same people said this guy was the god of coaching even last year.

Exactly Plugger. What frustrates me. People just cant accept the fact that he was a very good coach. Seems who ever is in the club at the current time is Amazing but once they are gone.. Never good.

You truely are a joke. Yes he was, and still probably is, a good coach. Doesn't stop him from being a money hungry arsehole. Was never a St Kilda person IMO.

You are the laughing stock of this forum and you don't even know it.

I will now cease responding to your utter crap. It's embarrassing. You win. Well done you tosser.

[kosifantutti]

You truely are a joke. Yes he was, and still probably is, a good coach. Doesn't stop him from being a money hungry arsehole. Was never a St Kilda person IMO.

You are the laughing stock of this forum and you don't even know it.

I will now cease responding to your utter crap. It's embarrassing. You win. Well done you tosser.

What's a St Kilda person?
Where's Robert Harvey working now? Was he ever truly a St Kilda person?
What about Max?
Did Stewie Loewe do some coaching at Richmond?
Danny Frawley?
Allan Jeans?

[saintspremiers]

You truely are a joke. Yes he was, and still probably is, a good coach. Doesn't stop him from being a money hungry arsehole. Was never a St Kilda person IMO.

You are the laughing stock of this forum and you don't even know it.

I will now cease responding to your utter crap. It's embarrassing. You win. Well done you tosser.

What's a St Kilda person?
Where's Robert Harvey working now? Was he ever truly a St Kilda person?
What about Max?
Did Stewie Loewe do some coaching at Richmond?
Danny Frawley?
Allan Jeans?

What about plugger66, is he a St. Kilda person??

[8856brother]

You truely are a joke. Yes he was, and still probably is, a good coach. Doesn't stop him from being a money hungry arsehole. Was never a St Kilda person IMO.

You are the laughing stock of this forum and you don't even know it.

I will now cease responding to your utter crap. It's embarrassing. You win. Well done you tosser.

What's a St Kilda person?
Where's Robert Harvey working now? Was he ever truly a St Kilda person?
What about Max?
Did Stewie Loewe do some coaching at Richmond?
Danny Frawley?
Allan Jeans?

I feel for you if you have to question that comment. Your comparisons are laughable IMO. I am. You are obviously not sure.

[kosifantutti]

You obviously have no idea.

[kosifantutti]

What about plugger66, is he a St. Kilda person??

I'm not even sure if he's a person.

[8856brother]

You obviously have no idea.

About what in particular?

[skeptic]

I don't think it's fair to just blame the players in the 09 GF for missing goals when we could have had a more balanced side with better coaching moves on the day to maximise our chances.

Lyon was all about game plan and structure..not making willy nilly moves especially given the amount of forward 50 entires in the first half of the 09 GF.

2010 passed with what I felt were a large number of signs of irrational thinking and poorly thought out moves or lack thereof. I'll make it very clear that IMO Lyon coached us out of a flag that IMO was clearly ours for the taking...frequently selecting players that were out of form, mediocre, underdone and injured.

His coaching got us back into the game and like I've said in the previous post, the 2010 effort to even get into a GF and nearly pinch it was awesome.

Final verdict decent coach who underperformed

You must have a very high benchmark for outperforming and with a 63% strike rate, you are a hard person to please.

GF 09 - didn't need an both a struggling King and Gardiner - neither did anything for weeks prior - their likely output on game day was predictable, which is what they delivered - that was conservative coaching
He made a move to bring Dempster in as a forward... bad move and I questioned the logic then and I stand by it now

His structure and game plan with LB was poor

On the day, we were outcoached and over run proof = result. We missed goals sure... but he wasn't able to do any moves that turned our momentum in the 1st 3 quarters into goals.

On 2010 - his coaching in the first half nearly got goals behind - we played shocking defensive minded football and it wasn't until Gardiner came off that we turned that around. Maybe if we attacked fron the start we would have won.

ANd how about the team selected for the replay - by all reports the team was absolutely exhausted with an injured and ineffective Dal, + Peake, Gram, Eddy and a few others playing the single worst game of fotoy in their careers and we only had one forced change. Poorly struggling Gardiner out for an underprepared McEvoy.
Followed up with Eddy who was good enough for the 15+ games in 2010 + the grandfinals and then promptly delisted. Yeah that's not erratic, dysfunction thinking.

On your last point - 63% strike rate = no premierships with a team that was built for him.
Yep he underperformed

[Dr Spaceman]

"Come together, right now.... Over me

Come together, yeah, Come together, yeah, Come together, yeah...."

[Devilhead]

To paraphrase the great Billy Ocean - When the going got tough Lyon got going . . . . . . fast

[clarky449]

Another hilarious thread. As I have said many times, dont leave our club controversial or you will suddenly be poor at what you did. Doesnt matter that those same people said this guy was the god of coaching even last year.

Exactly Plugger. What frustrates me. People just cant accept the fact that he was a very good coach. Seems who ever is in the club at the current time is Amazing but once they are gone.. Never good.

You truely are a joke. Yes he was, and still probably is, a good coach. Doesn't stop him from being a money hungry arsehole. Was never a St Kilda person IMO.

You are the laughing stock of this forum and you don't even know it.

I will now cease responding to your utter crap. It's embarrassing. You win. Well done you tosser.

Ross Lyon was a career coach. Does it matter if he was a St Kilda person. I never thought he was a St Kilda person. Just as Scott Watters isint a St Kilda person, in your words. But Ross was a professional and i think hurt alot when we lost etc. Calling him an Arsehole is good. Nice work.
I would much rather be the "Laughing stock of this forum" then a nobody of this forum.
Thank you for calling me tosser. I appreciate the support. I actually liked you for a second.

[SainterK]

Not sure the move to Freo will enhance his reputation, according to those who justify his leaving, he moved there purely to get away from St Kilda.

Given this wasn't a predetermined move, or a bid for a job, with strategy and deep thought...makes it hard to establish what he will make of it all.

[skeptic]

I think Lyon is a really clever, thoughtful coach and I expect him to make a big difference at the Dockers: possibly not at first, but gradually over the next few seasons. My only objection to Lyon is that, more than any other current coach, his approach is based entirely upon getting the most out of the current group of players with no significant thought for building for the future. His approach is contrary to my preferred goal for our club of building a consistently strong list over decades: a goal which GT consistently pursued, despite all the ludicrous criticism of what supposedly happened to our list under his regime. I know that many people associated with the club were 100% ok with Lyon's approach and preferred it to GT's: on the grounds that our supporters are absolutely desperate to see us win another flag and are prepared to sacrifice even the longer-term prospects of the club to some extent in order to get one. I don't agree with that line of thought, but I respect it and consider it to be a reasonable one.

Hi MB, very good post. As usual you show yourself as one of the more observant and articulate forumites here (no sarcasm intended)

I want to expand on a particular part of this paragraph

Something that bothered me about the "focus on the now" approach which you've suggested is that IMO RL's conservative approach deprived the club of developing players say over the course of a season that could still deliver in the fairly immediate future.

Ben McEvoy played this season when Gardiner went down. I am of the firm belief that had Michael been uninjured, he would have played 18-20 games at least and ben would have had maybe 4-8 tops.

McEvoy's first 4-5 games weren't all that impressive IIRC - many on here entertained the idea of trying to trade him and were frsutrated that rucks even more junior to Ben were having a greater impact.

Somewhere along the line Ben started putting it together. He didn't get bigger in-between weeks or someone told him something he hadn't thought of. With his gradual build up of experience, in combination with a sustained crack at the seniors, and a bit of confidence, he produced a really good game and then his confidence went up even more and he just got better with more games.
By the end of the season he well and truly established himself as our no 1 ruck

Same kind of deal with Jack... he got a sustained shot at the seniors, improved and then improved more so.

That's what happens with developing players, you play them they generally tend to get better. Not all of them are good enough but you need to play them when form warrants them and give them a chance to improve and show u what they can do.

Would McEvoy and Steven have played if Gardiner and Hayes hadn't gone down - from the way Lyon selected teams it's doubtful that they would have got many games at all.

This is why I got so frsutrated wuth Mini - he played something like 30 games between 2010-11 and how may of them were good games... i reckon 4 tops. He was a known quantity and wasn't getting better but still played.
That's why when Peake, Jones, Gram, Ray, Clarke, Polo, etc are playing poorly they need to be dropped until they earn their spots back and you need to get games into the guys pushing for them to see what they can do.

Johnson, Cahill, Miles, Lynch to name a few - their form warranted more games then they got. We didn't play them for the sake of continuing to play players that underperformed.

This scarred us because a) the under-performing players didn't get to work on the lacking aspects of their games at an easier level, nor did they have the onus on them to improve by the fear of the axe.
It also stopped us from being able to give these kids a go and see what they got.

If you go back through our turnover over the last 5+ years u can see that there were a lot of players that we cut who fall under the decent VFL category but seldom played the seniors and were cut.
Guys like plugger and SRS say ut was bad recruiting and they weren't good enough

I reckon we did a sh!t#ouse job developing the younger players on our list - I don't believe that we could have got it wrong that many times.

Can't prove any of this of course but will watch
Armitage
Stanley
Winmar
Steven
Lynch
Heyne
Walsh

Do under a different coach - Lynch is looking reasonable for the Crows atm

[dcstkfc]

Johnson, Cahill, Miles, Lynch to name a few - their form warranted more games then they got. We didn't play them for the sake of continuing to play players that underperformed.

Lynch and Miles perhaps, although Miles was terribly unlucky because his best footy was 09 when we were winning every week.

Johnson probably not.

Cahill no way, absolutely rubbish at Sandringham.

[skeptic]

Johnson, Cahill, Miles, Lynch to name a few - their form warranted more games then they got. We didn't play them for the sake of continuing to play players that underperformed.

Lynch and Miles perhaps, although Miles was terribly unlucky because his best footy was 09 when we were winning every week.

Johnson probably not.

Cahill no way, absolutely rubbish at Sandringham.

they all had some decent periods of form... Cahill by all reports was set to get a game right at the start of the season b4 he did a calf or something

[dragit]

A good point that pluggsticle often makes is that, if any of those guys were any good then surely another club would take a chance with them as a rookie…

I was very surprised that Carlton did with Heyne, but Lynch was often in Sandy's best and was reasonable for us in a couple of games

[skeptic]

A good point that pluggsticle often makes is that, if any of those guys were any good then surely another club would take a chance with them as a rookie…

I was very surprised that Carlton did with Heyne, but Lynch was often in Sandy's best and was reasonable for us in a couple of games

plenty of players fall through the net and come back later

generally you open yourself up to more criticism if a redrafted player fails than a unknown quantity

[Con Gorozidis]

Oh do you explain Robert Eddy getting 33 games - including Grand Finals - but being delisted a few weeks later?
Makes no sense - unless Lyon seen as a Lyon mistake of judgement. Rather large mistake in judgement.
And there are plenty more to list.
As I have said all along - Lyon = very good coach - well above average - but not a great one.
As for c2s claim he is "one of the great coaches of his era" - that is seriously stuff for the comedy festival in April.

[dragit]

plenty of players fall through the net and come back later

Not really, not in comparison to the amount that get drafted, delisted and never play an AFL match…

I would like to see the % of players that get delisted and then go on to have a meaningful football career (say 50 games), it would be very low. Of course there are exceptions, though I can't think of any real stars to have done so.

[rocketrod7]

I think Ross is a good coach. I also think some people on here like to stir up trouble. You know who you are. He's no longer at the club. Lets spend less time discussing him and more time discussing issues affecting our club. Love him or hate him, he's gone. Move on.

[SaintPav]

Oh do you explain Robert Eddy getting 33 games - including Grand Finals - but being delisted a few weeks later?
Makes no sense - unless Lyon seen as a Lyon mistake of judgement. Rather large mistake in judgement.
And there are plenty more to list.
As I have said all along - Lyon = very good coach - well above average - but not a great one.
As for c2s claim he is "one of the great coaches of his era" - that is seriously stuff for the comedy festival in April.

he is actually St Kilda's second greatest coach ever like it or not.

[gringo]

Ross was like a cheating wife the way he handled his move. Unfortunately his pretty face is obscured by the little bit of spew in my mouth when I hear his name. He was a good coach and while we were together we loved him now I can't stand the sight of that bitch playing footsies under the table with Freo.

[DWOODROW]

Sorry bit late. So whats this thread about?