Player by Player: Pre-Season Round 1

[bergholt]

Just watched the two games straight through. Here's some thoughts on every player I saw:

Gram: Decent, kicked a good goal and was solid in defence.
Siposs: Flashes of brilliance without completely tearing it up, but I reckon he could really become a player this year if he just finds a little more of it in dangerous positions.
Steven: Hard-working performance in the first game but his disposal continues to let him down.
Jones: Hard-working performance in the second game but his disposal continues to let him down.
McEvoy: Strong and reliable without being brilliant. I'm rapidly growing to love this fella.
Ross: Excellent signs for his first games at this level, on the bottom of a lot of packs and great with his hands - unsure yet about his kicking.
Hayes: Didn't do anything really, but got through and will be better for the run.

Riewoldt: Couple of decent marks but nothing really to speak of.
Schneider: Quiet night by his standards.
Geary: Pretty good running out of defence though won't have convinced his detractors.
Ledger: Probably our best over the two games, just keeps going and going. Can make mistakes but his endeavour will never be questioned.
Newnes: Had a dog of a first game where everything he touched turned to s***; he'll bounce back from that and be better for the learning.
Winmar: Showed a bit without blowing me away.
Goddard: Played a fairly reserved role and was below his lofty standard.
Gilbert: Solid enough playing deeper in defence than we're accustomed to.

Armitage: Got a bit of it but made a few mistakes - is he fighting Ross for a spot?
Saad: Showed a lot as Milne-replacement. Not sure if he can be in the team with both Milne and Schneider, but I really like the look of him.
Ray: Experience gives him a cool head under pressure and was a good steadier for the kids in the second game.
Koschitzke: Was thereabouts and if he'd kicked the goal it would have been a good night; as it was, just OK.
Dempster: Solid but barely sighted, really.
Fisher: Really good as always. I reckon he's our most important player this year, along with McEvoy.
Blake: Made some mistakes but still pretty solid in that key defensive spot; a very useful backup.
Stanley: Better than I expected, though he faded as the night wore on. Make or break year, but I'm not giving up yet.

Peake: Got a bit of it and is completely fine to have out there while not being particularly exciting.
Simpkin: Looks to be a strong competitor with decent disposal, looking forward to seeing more of him.
Milera: Jury still out for mine; did what he had to do in kicking the goal but gave away a couple of silly frees as well. Interested to see how much of the ball he gets in the real thing.
Polo: Very quiet deep in defence.
Cripps: Looked good, could be a real bonus running out of the back line as he's quick, disposal is ok and he seems to be defensively pretty disciplined as well - good tackler. Excited about him.
Wilkes: Was just OK in the backline and did nothing in the forward line; at present I'd have a few ahead of him, but he definitely gets a few more games to prove himself.
Shenton: Hard to tell from a couple of glimpses but didn't at all look out of place. Would have been nice for him to kick the goal though.

Curren: Only played a couple of minutes so nothing really to see there.
Milne: Was Milney.

Overall, ball movement was better in the second game and that was an OK performance. Plenty of adjustment to go on the uber-zone as obviously Sydney caught us out multiple times on that. Disposal into the forward line is still a problem - the second game saw just about zero marks inside 50, by my count. Goals from midfield and crumbers are great, but they're not gonna win you a flag.

Lots of work to do, but it's always good to see some kids out there.

[Choppa]

Use names instead of numbers and you will reach a wider audience with your posts.

[samuraisaint]

After Kosi, Ledger is my new fave player. This guy is going to be fantastic.

[defacto]

can someone edit the post and put the names in?

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Just watched the two games straight through. Here's some thoughts on every player I saw:

GRAM I AM: Decent, kicked a good goal and was solid in defence.
SIPOSS: Flashes of brilliance without completely tearing it up, but I reckon he could really become a player this year if he just finds a little more of it in dangerous positions.
STEVEN: Hard-working performance in the first game but his disposal continues to let him down.
JONES: Hard-working performance in the second game but his disposal continues to let him down.
McEVOY: Strong and reliable without being brilliant. I'm rapidly growing to love this fella.
ROSS: Excellent signs for his first games at this level, on the bottom of a lot of packs and great with his hands - unsure yet about his kicking.
LEN DOG: Didn't do anything really, but got through and will be better for the run.

ROO MANCHOO: Couple of decent marks but nothing really to speak of.
SCHNEIDER: Quiet night by his standards.
GEARY: Pretty good running out of defence though won't have convinced his detractors.
HEATH LEDGER: Probably our best over the two games, just keeps going and going. Can make mistakes but his endeavour will never be questioned.
NEWNES: Had a dog of a first game where everything he touched turned to s***; he'll bounce back from that and be better for the learning.
WINMAR: Showed a bit without blowing me away.
GODDARD: Played a fairly reserved role and was below his lofty standard.
GILBERT: Solid enough playing deeper in defence than we're accustomed to.

ARMO: Got a bit of it but made a few mistakes - is he fighting Ross for a spot?
SAAD WONDER SOAP: Showed a lot as Milne-replacement. Not sure if he can be in the team with both Milne and Schneider, but I really like the look of him.
RAY: Experience gives him a cool head under pressure and was a good steadier for the kids in the second game.
KOSI: Was thereabouts and if he'd kicked the goal it would have been a good night; as it was, just OK.
DUMPSTER: Solid but barely sighted, really.
FISHER: Really good as always. I reckon he's our most important player this year, along with McEvoy.
JOE BLAKE: Made some mistakes but still pretty solid in that key defensive spot; a very useful backup.
STANLEY: Better than I expected, though he faded as the night wore on. Make or break year, but I'm not giving up yet.

PEAKE: Got a bit of it and is completely fine to have out there while not being particularly exciting.
SIMPKIN: Looks to be a strong competitor with decent disposal, looking forward to seeing more of him.
MILERA: Jury still out for mine; did what he had to do in kicking the goal but gave away a couple of silly frees as well. Interested to see how much of the ball he gets in the real thing.
POLO: Very quiet deep in defence.
CRIPPS: Looked good, could be a real bonus running out of the back line as he's quick, disposal is ok and he seems to be defensively pretty disciplined as well - good tackler. Excited about him.
WILKES: Was just OK in the backline and did nothing in the forward line; at present I'd have a few ahead of him, but he definitely gets a few more games to prove himself.
SHENTON: Hard to tell from a couple of glimpses but didn't at all look out of place. Would have been nice for him to kick the goal though.

CURREN: Only played a couple of minutes so nothing really to see there.
MILNE: Was Milney.

Overall, ball movement was better in the second game and that was an OK performance. Plenty of adjustment to go on the uber-zone as obviously Sydney caught us out multiple times on that. Disposal into the forward line is still a problem - the second game saw just about zero marks inside 50, by my count. Goals from midfield and crumbers are great, but they're not gonna win you a flag.

Lots of work to do, but it's always good to see some kids out there.

[Con Gorozidis]

i reckon ur harsh on milera. first up at this level. impressed the hell out of me.
ross just looks like one of those level headed blokes who doesnt make mistakes.
wilkesy battled hard and got some bad luck but he looks like a good solid honest player.
CJ would win a brownlow if he could kick but wow his kicking defies belief sometimes
dont think we had any real muppets out there. stanley will need to step up because we cant just expect big mac to play 100 mins in the ruck week in week out.

Apart fm that good report berg. And pretty accurate IMO.

[Con Gorozidis]

i reckon ur harsh on milera. first up at this level. impressed the hell out of me.
ross just looks like one of those level headed blokes who doesnt make mistakes. the new ledn-dog. love him.
wilkesy battled hard and got some bad luck but he looks like a good solid honest player.
CJ would win a brownlow if he could kick but wow his kicking defies belief sometimes
dont think we had any real muppets out there. stanley will need to step up because we cant just expect big mac to play 100 mins in the ruck week in week out.

[dragit]

Jones' kicking last night was even worse than in previous seasons…

Love the blokes endeavor and all but, we need to find someone else to play his role if we are to go forward, hopefully between Ledger and Ross we can introduce some much needed skill.

Jayson Daniels 2.0

[bigcarl]

SAAD WONDER SOAP: Showed a lot as Milne-replacement. Not sure if he can be in the team with both Milne and Schneider, but I really like the look of him.

Why not? Make the opposition man up as many dangerous goalkickers as possible I reckon.

[Dave McNamara]

Just watched the two games straight through. Here's some thoughts on every player I saw:

... Lots of work to do, but it's always good to see some kids out there.

Hi Bergholt, thanks very much for going to all that effort to write such a comprehensive report for those of us who weren't there. And thanks for then going the extra mile(s) to add the player names. Greaty appreciated.

[skfc17]

I'm Mazed at how s*** jones is at kicking.how can sum-
Get this far and not have his style corrected.he runs like a bit of a goose too mayb that has sumfn to do with it

[Con Gorozidis]

I'm Mazed at how s*** jones is at kicking.how can sum-
Get this far and not have his style corrected.he runs like a bit of a goose too mayb that has sumfn to do with it

im almost over getting frustrated. Its almost comical now. just handball CJ! ffs.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I originally posted this in the match thread, when I got back from the game, but it will probably get lost in there, so I've copied and pasted it here as well, for those that haven't seen both, or either game and want another perspective:

From the Sydney game:
LENNY HAYES. That's all I have to say about that. Well not really. It was like he had played all last year and tonight was just another game of footy for him. Although he didn't get a heap of it, it was trademark Lenny all over the place. Tough stuff, centre clearances, good kicks, brilliant tackles, etc.

Centre clearances- We got a lot of them, even though Sydney had Jude Bolton, Jarrad McVeigh and Adam Goodes in there a lot. Even when we were getting well beaten, we got something like 5 or 6 clear kicks out of the centre bounces in a row, from memory. It was at least two each to Lenny and Ledger. Unfortunately we just didn't capitalise on them.

JACK STEVEN also got a lot of it and looks to be continuing on from his excellent season last year.

With those three, plus Joey, Dal, BJ, Armo and CJ, our midfield is looking a LOT better.

SAM and SAM did extremely well down back, especially Sammy Fish, who had it on a string early. Hopefully Gilbo will put last year well and truly behind him and have another year like he did in 2010 (or better). Neither of them played against Geelong.

WILKES kind of struggled at full back. Played on Sam Reid, Jessie White and Seaby, apparently. Sam Reid kicked everyone's ass.

ROOEY just isn't his old self. Doesn't have the same sort of aura and confidence and mojo that he used to. Hopefully that will return ASAP. Did hold onto a couple of strong marks at full reach, though and managed to slot a sausage from a 45 deg angle, that he could easily have missed.

KOSI was Kosi and took a good overhead mark, at full stretch, in the pocket and also one on the lead around 45. Didn't manage to slot the goal either time.

NEWNES started on Adam Goodes, when Goodes started the match forward. Newnes ended up with the 5th or 6th most possies for us for the game, which I was surprised to see. Didn't do much with them though. One of the kicks was laughably bad!

FROM THE GEELONG GAME:

(Riewoldt, Lenny, Fisher, Gilbert, Steven, Kosi, Dempster, Geary, Newnes, Schnider didn't play, after all playing the first game. Crocker and Archer didn't play either game. Blake, Gram, Jones, Milera, Peake, Polo, Ray, Simpkin, Winmar, Curren all came in for the 2nd game). So basically, most of our "top 10-12" played the first game and most of them were then replaced by many of our "bottom 10", for the second. Our better team on paper ended looking ordinary and our weaker looking team looked a lot better as a team. They obviously have a lot more to play for, though, as they are basically all fighting hard for a spot in R1.

Man am I excited about SIPOSS. Reminds me physically of a slightly taller and stronger version of Joel Smith. Just oozes class and moves a bit like Smith did when he first burst onto the scene (maybe without the great sidestep). Like Smith, has an exceptional and penetrating kicking technique and can kick well on both feet, although he certainly kicks it longer than Smithy did. At one point tonight he had a shot for goal from 70m out, I s*** you not (I also saw the replay on Fox, when I got home). He got the ball just behind the centre circle and burst across the centre line and without taking a bounce, had a shot for goal (as there was no-one within 25m of goal). It landed about 7m out (in the goalsquare), but was a bit left of target and bounced through for a point. I don't think he realised he had a bit of time (which he gained through his acceleration), otherwise he probably would have taken a bounce, steadied and gotten better balanced and I reckon he would have nailed it, if he'd kicked it from about 60-65 (possibly on the full). Dwane Russell joked in commentary that it should have been for a a "16 pointer", not for a 9 (for a supergoal), as he was so far out. He could almost be a right-footed version of Gold Coast's Eric McKenzie.

The other thing I learned about him tonight is that he has some serious acceleration on him. A couple of times he burst clear of the pack with the footy and it was really impressive. I didn't realise he had that sort of speed. He also has a very good footy brain, by the looks of it, as well as poise. Had 10 possies for the game, which was second only to CJ, I think, who had 14 (the most in any of the other games for any team was about 12 or 13).

Ever since Aaron Hamill started missing lots of footy we've been looking for someone to fill that role and Siposs looks very likely to be able to do it, maybe even better (albeit without the amazing tackling). Having Sammy there to teach him will also help considerably, I imagine. Physically and footy wise, he looks to have all the tools. Started the game at FF, but eventually moved up to the wing.

As I said, CJ got a lot of it. Hard as nails and gave 120%, as per usual. Apparently he had an interrupted pre-season last year, but has had a much better one this year and reckons he's feeling the best he has in a while. His game tonight reflected that, although he really butchered a couple of kicks, but we're used to that.

SIMPKIN was very impressive at FB, more so than Wilkes, who played the first game there. Simpkin made some big blunders in his two senior games last year, but looked more assured tonight (although he did drop a bit of a pudd of a chest mark, in the defensive 50, that put him under a lot of pressure- that is the sort of s*** he has to eradicate ASAP. He recovered with poise, though, so it wasn't costly.). May not be quite big enough to handle the "monsters", but I'm not sure we'll have anyone who is perfect for FB, so he may be our best option. Got plenty of really good spoils in and has a real go. Has also shown in the VFL that he has some mongrel in him. Also hit a target with a long kick at one point.

MILERA has a lot of talent and ability. Good kick, including on the run, very quick and not as thin as I was expecting, from the reports. Kicked a good goal on the run and also tried to take a Winmar style hanger across a pack. Might have held onto it, too, if someone didn't spoil the mark. He did land on his feet like a cat, though and managed to extract the ball from that marking contest after it hit the ground, with good poise and balance.

SHENTON looks like a bit of a "wild thing" and reminded me of Rooke, from Geelong. Medium tall, strong looking, quick and bull-at-a-gate, crash and bang type of style. He rushed his first kick and it was a bit of a nothing, up-and-under, that could have been better, but then he fought hard for a ground ball and got a really slick low handball off to Gram, as he ran past. Was a very impressive effort. Also took a mark in the pocket, but missed the set shot for goal, from about 40m out, 45 deg angle.

I didn't spot it at the game, but CURREN came on very late in the 2nd game and did one brilliant blind turn out of haevy traffic to get a kick clear. It was blind-turn-in-a-phone-box sort of stuff. I spotted it when watching the replay later and had to rewind it a couple of times to even realise who it was, as he had just been subbed on. For his first touch in a Saints jumper it was pretty impressive!

I was impressed with how WINMAR went about things and attacked the contest overall. Didn't get a lot of it, but took a strong overhead mark and really competed.

Our backline in the 2nd game was very inexperienced and not very big or tall.

FROM THE NIGHT OVERALL:

SAAD looked impressive and is seriously fast. Could play round one, although might be fighting for a spot with Steven and/or Ledger, who could also play forward, if squeezed out of the midfield.

I didn't see SEB ROSS do a lot, but he did get our 3rd most possies in the 2nd game and went head to head with both Adam Goodes and Jimmy Bartel in the two games, for a lot of them, which would have been great for him. Was very cool and calm when he did get it though. Was also slightly taller than I was expecting. The first kick I saw him do was a good one on his right foot, just in front of us and it wasn't until I saw him take a less pressured left foot kick, later, that I remembered he kicks predminately on his left.

CRIPPS put on some really terrific tackles, but I didn't see him get a lot of the footy, in either game, which I was disappointed about. (Edit: Have now seen most of the replays of both games and Cripps did better (got more of it) than I though he did, from watching it at the ground last night. Also used it well by both hand and foot and is certainly quick.
The likes of him, Ledger, Siposs, Saad and maybe Ross and Milera will hopefully put a lot of pressure on our much maligned "bottom 6", which will be really good.
Watters obviously saw first hand what Collingwood giving the likes of Sidebottom and co a lot of games in 2010, when they weren't necessarily better than the older ones they were replacing, (especially early) did for their footy and how it payed off by the end of the year, so he may look to do that with us.)

LEDGER is like Leigh Montagna, part two, especially physically and the way he runs and kicks well both feet. Good build. Kicks both feet. Fast. Same sort of height as Joey. Me likey.

RHYS STANLEY didn't do a lot over the two games, but did make a couple of nice leads, which led to marks and kicked a goal at the end of the 1st game, with a good kick from 50m, after a good lead. He has a genuine hoof on him. Had one other shot for goal just in front of us from the 50m line and it went through 9/10 post height. He can genuinely kick it 60m (which I've also seen him do in the VFL) without a lot of effort. Also did a couple of nice one-percenters that directly resulted in our first two goals in game one.

ARMO didn't do a lot for the two games, but was in our top 5 for possies in the 2nd game. BLAKE was OK, GEARY serviceable and was in our top 4 for possies in the 1st game, GODDARD was just OK, for him, MILNE was very good, MAC was OK, PEAKE, RAY and POLO were fine and all got a bit of it, SCHNEIDER was pretty quiet, as was WILKES in the 2nd game.

You hear some go on and on and on about how these games mean "nothing", but that's not true. Sure they're not as intense, or anywhere near as relevant, as a regular season game, but you can still learn a lot about the younger ones, especially, from games like these. So they do have some value.
And that is because, even though these games are not at the usual AFL standard and intensity, they are still almost certainly more intense and quicker than the U18's, VFL, SANFL, WAFL and so on, games that they usually play. They are also more in the spotlight, with the bigger crowd there, plus being on TV to tens, or hundreds of thousands more. So if they do well in these games, against the likes of Adam Goodes, Jude Bolton, Jimmy Bartel and Harry Taylor, there is a good liklihood that they will be able to make the step up to AFL senior footy. Moreso, I believe, than if they do well in a VFL game, or WAFL, or SANFL game, that they are largely judged on during the season.

[bergholt]

Use names instead of numbers and you will reach a wider audience with your posts.

yeah, fair point, for some reason i've got most of them in my head already.

[bergholt]

I originally posted this in the match thread, when I got back from the game, but it will probably get lost in there, so I've copied and pasted it here as well, for those that haven't seen both, or either game and want another perspective:

great writeup mate, some comments from me inline:

Centre clearances- We got a lot of them, even though Sydney had Jude Bolton, Jarrad McVeigh and Adam Goodes in there a lot. Even when we were getting well beaten, we got something like 5 or 6 clear kicks out of the centre bounces in a row, from memory. It was at least two each to Lenny and Ledger. Unfortunately we just didn't capitalise on them.

yeah, agreed. afl site has the clearance stats for the game: ledger 5, mcevoy 3, armo, fisher, hayes, cripps, newnes, saad, stanley 1.

i reckon we've got the makings of a really solid midfield this year, but turning that into goals will be the challenge.

NEWNES started on Adam Goodes, when Goodes started the match forward. Newnes ended up with the 5th or 6th most possies for us for the game, which I was surprised to see. Didn't do much with them though. One of the kicks was laughably bad!

ah right, i didn't realise he was on goodes. tough assignment! he'll be better for the lesson.

SIPOSS... At one point tonight he had a shot for goal from 70m out, I s*** you not (I also saw the replay on Fox, when I got home). He got the ball just behind the centre circle and burst across the centre line and without taking a bounce, had a shot for goal (as there was no-one within 25m of goal). It landed about 7m out (in the goalsquare), but was a bit left of target and bounced through for a point. I don't think he realised he had a bit of time (which he gained through his acceleration), otherwise he probably would have taken a bounce, steadied and gotten better balanced and I reckon he would have nailed it, if he'd kicked it from about 60-65 (possibly on the full). Dwane Russell joked in commentary that it should have been for a a "16 pointer", not for a 9 (for a supergoal), as he was so far out. He could almost be a right-footed version of Gold Coast's Eric McKenzie.

trent mckenzie? yeah, it was a pretty massive roost and i was surprised it got as close as it did. lemme tell ya, i already feel more comfortable with him as the designated kicker around sixty than gram!

I didn't see SEB ROSS do a lot, but he did get our 3rd most possies in the 2nd game and went head to head with both Adam Goodes and Jimmy Bartel in the two games, for a lot of them, which would have been great for him. Was very cool and calm when he did get it though.

yeah, he's one of those in-and-under players who shows up more on tv than live at the ground. really good performance from him.

[gringo]

I was at the game and a few while they didn't get possessions were very good off the ball. Shenton, Saad, Milera and cripps all looked really good when they didn't have the ball. Polo was much better at chasing and really put in with out bothering the stats too much. I really liked Seb Ross too, I wasn't believing the hype until I saw him up close. He has what ever those young guys like Lenny had just has nous or something. His brain is playing a move ahead of his body.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

great writeup mate, some comments from me inline:

Cheers mate, thanks for yours too.

yeah, agreed. afl site has the clearance stats for the game: ledger 5, mcevoy 3, armo, fisher, hayes, cripps, newnes, saad, stanley 1.

i reckon we've got the makings of a really solid midfield this year, but turning that into goals will be the challenge.

I think there was one where someone got it out to Lenny and he kicked it forward, so maybe they didn't count that one to Lenny, but to whoever got it to him. And getting it forward from the middle is a great start. If we can either mark it, or lock it forward from there, we're going to be in great shape, if we keep getting centre clearances.

ah right, i didn't realise he was on goodes. tough assignment! he'll be better for the lesson.

He only started on Goodes. I don't think it lasted terribly long at all, as Goodes went into the middle, where Ross picked him up. Ross would have spent by far the most time on him in that game, I expect.

trent mckenzie? yeah, it was a pretty massive roost and i was surprised it got as close as it did. lemme tell ya, i already feel more comfortable with him as the designated kicker around sixty than gram!

Bloody oath! Grammy nailing that one the other night means he's almost at his quota for the year, so I'd go to Siposs over him almost every time from now on. I was calling for Siposs to do the drive-by's last year, especially when Roo was lining up for goal. And I knew it was "something" McKenzie!

yeah, he's one of those in-and-under players who shows up more on tv than live at the ground. really good performance from him.

One thing I liked was how he didn't seem to rush or panic at all, which is a great sign. Will be interesting to see who gets a go first out of say him and the likes of Ledger and Cripps.

[Con Gorozidis]

seb ross got a stack of it in close.
and milera ran to the right spots a fair bit and could have received a few more handballs and maybe would have kicked another goal or two if the players went to him when they should have. once they realise he has pace and can kick straight they might be more likely to handball to him. hope so.

[SainterK]

I agree with the opinions of Siposs, what I love about him, similar to what I love about Jimmy...is his composure. You get the feeling nothing will ruffle him, and the big moments don't phase him.

Composure is such a good quality for a team wanting to play finals.