Ross Lyon on The Couch this Monday

[saintspremiers]

Well said BFUSA.

Lyon didn't say when he emotionally wasn't with our club, but did state at up until that point he had given 100%.

It's a Shane it had to bugger up our perfect Saturday night record at the dome.

I also thought Roosy should not have been part of the interview. Actually made
me ill seeing those two in the same room.

I guess there are plenty of mining magnates to beg off if he needs more money in the future.

[plugger66]

Has anybody noticed Crippa's joining date?
Not real sure but reckon it's pretty close to Judas'departure date.
Is it possible that they are one and the same?
If not,hard to explain the adulation!

Harder to explain how people all of a sudden think what some was the best coach in the AFL who spoke well is all of a sudden responsible for us losing 2 GF's and being the most boring speaker in the AFL.

[sainters4eva]

For anyone who has experienced being headhunted by another organisation you will know how unsettling it can, be particularly if you had not even thought about leaving your current organisation.You feel flattered and you start to look for faults with your current organisation. Even though Ross said he was emotionally with the Saints up until the Tues I reckon he became very unsettled after that first call from Freo.

I lost a lot of respect for Lyon for the underhanded way he went about his departure but I thought he handled himself quite well last night, even if he was his usual cryptic self and didn't provide any real answers as to why he left. The one I lost a lot of respect for last night though was Roos who had the dig at Watters and for Healy who raised the issue with Roos. It was totally uncalled for and obviously premeditated to put a further sting in the whole issue.

[gringo]

My problem with Ross is that he damaged his image by the way he went about it. If it had been all above board his integrity and honesty wouldn't have been questioned. A bit like a husband asking for a divorce then moving in with a new woman that night. I always backed Lyon's version of the Luke Ball departure and other issues that required a level of belief that the club was communicating honestly. now you have that niggle at the back of your mind.

[SaintPav]

For anyone who has experienced being headhunted by another organisation you will know how unsettling it can, be particularly if you had not even thought about leaving your current organisation.You feel flattered and you start to look for faults with your current organisation. Even though Ross said he was emotionally with the Saints up until the Tues I reckon he became very unsettled after that first call from Freo.

I lost a lot of respect for Lyon for the underhanded way he went about his departure but I thought he handled himself quite well last night, even if he was his usual cryptic self and didn't provide any real answers as to why he left. The one I lost a lot of respect for last night though was Roos who had the dig at Watters and for Healy who raised the issue with Roos. It was totally uncalled for and obviously premeditated to put a further sting in the whole issue.

What was the dig at Watters?

[crippa2sipa]

Tonight Ross Lyon admitted that after the an intial contact during the season where he told Fremantle that he wanted to put conversations on hold but when asked when he commenced discussions ROSS LYON nominated "the 4th" - which I assumed to mean Sunday the 4th of September - 6 days prior to our Final against the Swans and about 10 days prior to his resignation. Whilst he says he was "emotionally" still St Kilda coach ... there is no doubt now that he was negotiating an alternative opportunity.

To me - this means he wasn't 100% focussed on our finals campaign.

For a man with the mantra 100% effort; 100% of the time ... he was the one who let the team, the club and the supporters down.

So Ross was the one who let us all down because a headhunter made an unsolicited call to him on the eve on the finals?

Pull the other one!

It was Nettlefold's responsibility to ensure that Ross did not receive unsolicited calls from headhunters by offering him, well before finals, a contract that satisfied him.

Back in March Ross asked for a 3 year extension on extremely modest terms by market standards.

So what did Nettlefold, that overpaid buffoon, go and do?

He offered him a 2-year extension with a PAY-CUT plus incentives - an offer no sane coach with Ross's record could accept in a million years.

As we know, the club's finances have been spectacularly mismanaged by our CEO.

That is hardly surprising when he was incapable of appreciating the market-value of his own coach.

[crippa2sipa]

My problem with Ross is that he damaged his image by the way he went about it. If it had been all above board his integrity and honesty wouldn't have been questioned. A bit like a husband asking for a divorce then moving in with a new woman that night. I always backed Lyon's version of the Luke Ball departure and other issues that required a level of belief that the club was communicating honestly. now you have that niggle at the back of your mind.

What do you mean by "above board" exactly?
Aren't you ignoring the contractual realities - i.e. the framework within which those events took place?

[sainters4eva]

For anyone who has experienced being headhunted by another organisation you will know how unsettling it can, be particularly if you had not even thought about leaving your current organisation.You feel flattered and you start to look for faults with your current organisation. Even though Ross said he was emotionally with the Saints up until the Tues I reckon he became very unsettled after that first call from Freo.

I lost a lot of respect for Lyon for the underhanded way he went about his departure but I thought he handled himself quite well last night, even if he was his usual cryptic self and didn't provide any real answers as to why he left. The one I lost a lot of respect for last night though was Roos who had the dig at Watters and for Healy who raised the issue with Roos. It was totally uncalled for and obviously premeditated to put a further sting in the whole issue.

What was the dig at Watters?

There is earlier discusion on this on the previous page. Referring to Watters saying somewhere that "we are not going to be defined by our past" and Healy's lead in something along the lines of Rooesy you're not too happy with the new coach Scott Watters.

[kosifantutti]

Tonight Ross Lyon admitted that after the an intial contact during the season where he told Fremantle that he wanted to put conversations on hold but when asked when he commenced discussions ROSS LYON nominated "the 4th" - which I assumed to mean Sunday the 4th of September - 6 days prior to our Final against the Swans and about 10 days prior to his resignation. Whilst he says he was "emotionally" still St Kilda coach ... there is no doubt now that he was negotiating an alternative opportunity.

To me - this means he wasn't 100% focussed on our finals campaign.

For a man with the mantra 100% effort; 100% of the time ... he was the one who let the team, the club and the supporters down.

He said the INITIAL contact was on September 4th and Lyon said he wasn't interested in talking so Freo guy (Rosisch?) said he'd contact him at the end of the season. Obviously he did. There was no suggestion that Lyon was negotiating with, or even thinking about Freo while the finals campaign was still alive.

Of course that's Lyon's side of the story but people seem very quick to interpret everything he says in a negative way.

[SainterK]

Does anyone have the article that Roos put up on screen, I'd like to read it in it's entirety, not just that one little grab in isolation.

Even the most cynical person surely can't help but see how gushy Scott has been about St Kilda the last few years surely, it's almost too much gushy.

[SaintlySaint85]

cheers Vacuous for the in-depth interview analysis.
no cheers, however, to the boring by-play that you whingers seem to derail every topic of discussion with. take your high school banter back to the playground, kids - it has no place in adult life.

[dragit]

For a man with the mantra 100% effort; 100% of the time ... he was the one who let the team, the club and the supporters down.

Wasn't that GT's motto? not Ross's?

[B W and R all over]

A bit like a husband asking for a divorce then moving in with a new woman that night.

To be fair, that's not how it works with employment. You kind of need your new job to start pretty quickly after your old one ends.

[SaintPav]

Roos has taken it the wrong way.

Of course Scott Watters recognises that he inherits a core that has been pretty successful. But I reckon what Watters meant by the 'don't have to be defined by your past comment' was that this group doesn't have to be remembered as a group that lost two grand finals and couldn't seal the deal; that there is hope for them yet to deliver the ultimate prize.

This is how I took it. Roos and OTC must be despearte to get an angle given that there's not much footy news at the moment.

They really treat footy viewers like muppets and the don't do us any favours do they? Without all the background viewers don't get the full picture.
Footy media can really give me the sh!ts. It's all so matey, incestuous and incredibly hyprocritical. Walls and Roos have a massive conflict of interest on this issue.

BTW, did they ask him about Melbourne?

[defacto]

Melbourne was left out. I reckon he was talking to them too but choose freo because they were quicker an more eager and less diligent. Ross is the boss at freo. He wasnt going to be the boss at the saints anymore and he wasnt going to be the boss at melbourne

[Spinner]

Love Roos. Although I dont agree with everything. He makes a lot of sense.



For those saying they 'didnt like how Ross went about it'... How exactly else would you go about it. In fact he went about it perfectly.

When things like this happen, the line that always gets through around is 'it was handled really poorly'. How exactly do you handle leaving your employer, and ensuring you get a contract at another club?


It was handled the best that situation could have been handled, even though it cuts me.

Still rate RL as the best coach in the AFL. Easily.

[matrix]

replay
on
now
for
all
the
lyon
posters
that
need
some
love

[Dave McNamara]

All things considered I was a huge fan of Ro$$y's time at our club.
Fundamentally, I'd much rather us kick 12 goals and win by 5, than kick 14 and loose by 8. I remember the 80's, late 90's, early 2000's... St Kilda winning can never be boring.

I also believe that he was going to address the needs to be more attacking and to give the youth a greater opportunity. (Of course now we'll never know...)

That said, how Ro$$y left does not sit well.

I think that it is important for the club to sort this out, rather than us just say he's gone now and we should move on, coz as we know those who don't learn from the mistakes of history are condemned to repeat them.

Now, we have some people with sources that say he was offered a deal better than the minimum he sort, others saying Ro$$y was offered a contract for less $$$ than his previous one...

So to all you Saintsationalists out there with contacts, inside info, whatever... which is it???

My thanks in anticipation.

[Mr Magic]

All things considered I was a huge fan of Ro$$y's time at our club.
Fundamentally, I'd much rather us kick 12 goals and win by 5, than kick 14 and loose by 8. I remember the 80's, late 90's, early 2000's... St Kilda winning can never be boring.

I also believe that he was going to address the needs to be more attacking and to give the youth a greater opportunity. (Of course now we'll never know...)

That said, how Ro$$y left does not sit well.

I think that it is important for the club to sort this out, rather than us just say he's gone now and we should move on, coz as we know those who don't learn from the mistakes of history are condemned to repeat them.

Now, we have some people with sources that say he was offered a deal better than the minimum he sort, others saying Ro$$y was offered a contract for less $$$ than his previous one...

So to all you Saintsationalists out there with contacts, inside info, whatever... which is it???

My thanks in anticipation.

There are some undeniable facts.
Lyon's management (Elite) concluded a deal with St Kilda they felt was acceptable to all parties.
They arranged to have their client come in and sign the contract.
St Kilda felt confident enough that it had concluded a deal with Lyon that they called a press conference to announce it.

Does anybody truly believe that Elite Management accepted a deal for less money and that Lyon was prepared to go along with that?
Elite must have spoken with Lyon to tell him that they'd negotiated the deal adn to come in the following morning to sign

They apparently had no knowledge/inkling that he was negotiating (through another party) with Freo.

Conjecture
I have absolutely no doubt the Lyon (or his negotiator) having been told by Elite what the negotiated deal from St Kilda was then went back to Freo adn gave them an opportunity to 'better' what Elite had gotten for him.

Nothing wrong with doing the best deal you can for yourself
BUT
sometimes situations can look like they 'reek' even if in actuality they don't.

I might humbly suggest that this situation appears to show Lyon 'playing' both St Kilda and Elite.

St Kilda knew that their coach was coming off contract and that there were other Clubs who may well be interested in securing his services (Melbourne immediately springs to mind).
Again IMHO there is no way they would 'cut' his salary offer going forward, unless they were trying to force him to walk.
That scenario doesn't seem likely given that they continued to negotiate with his agents adn finally reach a position that everybody apparently was happy with.

[Dave McNamara]

There are some undeniable facts.
Lyon's management (Elite) concluded a deal with St Kilda they felt was acceptable to all parties.
They arranged to have their client come in and sign the contract.
St Kilda felt confident enough that it had concluded a deal with Lyon that they called a press conference to announce it.

Does anybody truly believe that Elite Management accepted a deal for less money and that Lyon was prepared to go along with that?
Elite must have spoken with Lyon to tell him that they'd negotiated the deal adn to come in the following morning to sign

They apparently had no knowledge/inkling that he was negotiating (through another party) with Freo.

Conjecture
I have absolutely no doubt the Lyon (or his negotiator) having been told by Elite what the negotiated deal from St Kilda was then went back to Freo adn gave them an opportunity to 'better' what Elite had gotten for him.

Nothing wrong with doing the best deal you can for yourself
BUT
sometimes situations can look like they 'reek' even if in actuality they don't.

I might humbly suggest that this situation appears to show Lyon 'playing' both St Kilda and Elite.

St Kilda knew that their coach was coming off contract and that there were other Clubs who may well be interested in securing his services (Melbourne immediately springs to mind).
Again IMHO there is no way they would 'cut' his salary offer going forward, unless they were trying to force him to walk.
That scenario doesn't seem likely given that they continued to negotiate with his agents adn finally reach a position that everybody apparently was happy with.

Thanks very much for that Mr M. Yep, that makes sense to me and is the version I'd go for.

That said, what then is with Mike Sheahan's (reported - I haven't seen the show) line about Ro$$ be offered a haircut by our BOM? And what's with Ro$$'s (reported) response along the lines of how'd you know about that???

Dis -pleasing.

[WinnersOnly]

Tonight Ross Lyon admitted that after the an intial contact during the season where he told Fremantle that he wanted to put conversations on hold but when asked when he commenced discussions ROSS LYON nominated "the 4th" - which I assumed to mean Sunday the 4th of September - 6 days prior to our Final against the Swans and about 10 days prior to his resignation. Whilst he says he was "emotionally" still St Kilda coach ... there is no doubt now that he was negotiating an alternative opportunity.

To me - this means he wasn't 100% focussed on our finals campaign.

For a man with the mantra 100% effort; 100% of the time ... he was the one who let the team, the club and the supporters down.

So Ross was the one who let us all down because a headhunter made an unsolicited call to him on the eve on the finals?

Pull the other one!

It was Nettlefold's responsibility to ensure that Ross did not receive unsolicited calls from headhunters by offering him, well before finals, a contract that satisfied him.

Back in March Ross asked for a 3 year extension on extremely modest terms by market standards.

So what did Nettlefold, that overpaid buffoon, go and do?

He offered him a 2-year extension with a PAY-CUT plus incentives - an offer no sane coach with Ross's record could accept in a million years.

As we know, the club's finances have been spectacularly mismanaged by our CEO.

That is hardly surprising when he was incapable of appreciating the market-value of his own coach.

Thats exactly what you do when you want the substantive coach out! LYON did a good job in most apects at the Saints but his handling of player development and a number of other separate matters was very ordinary. The SAINTS are better off with a new and refreshed coaching panel, which will be proven this year.

[Team Tommy]

I guess we'll see, a bit to play out over the next few months.

Bomber coached geelong to premierships, yet the players say him leaving was the best thing that could happen to the club.

I did wonder if Ross moved to Freo because he had something cooking in his brain that he wanted to implement and quickly, and they had a list to suit. However the more that has unfolded, it appears by his own admission that he left because they were prepared to help out his financial situation?

Pretty confident it will be "freo footy" in 2012, with a strong focus on forward pressure and defence.

I'm more upset about losing Thommy Walsh to the Swans. And I hold our former coach responsible for that sad fact as well.

[saintbrat]

Lyon stated last night he was still acting as the Coach of St Kilda up to the Tuesday when doing reviews etc. ' lost connection' with the club on the wednesday morning.???- so by then he had the Saints contract and had had time to make the contact back to Freo- found an option that paid up front.

"I didn't wake up one morning thinking I want to hurt the St Kilda Football Club. It didn't occur. I was certainly committed until when I was emotionally out in the middle of that week which was basically the Wednesday," he said.

"Up until the Tuesday night I was still the St Kilda coach."

and HE had put of negotiations till after finals and had in fact listed 10 players to go..

7 minute video here
http://www.foxsports.com.au/AFL/lyon-ex ... =FoxSports

personally I don't think he looks any happier in Freo than he was at the saints..

[crippa2sipa]

All things considered I was a huge fan of Ro$$y's time at our club.
That said, how Ro$$y left does not sit well.
I think that it is important for the club to sort this out, rather than us just say he's gone now and we should move on, coz as we know those who don't learn from the mistakes of history are condemned to repeat them.
Now, we have some people with sources that say he was offered a deal better than the minimum he sort, others saying Ro$$y was offered a contract for less $$$ than his previous one...
So to all you Saintsationalists out there with contacts, inside info, whatever... which is it???
My thanks in anticipation.

Dave, you seem to be confused by the dollar signs in your eyes, which you are oddly projecting onto Ross's ("RoSSy's") name.
It looks very odd.

There were 2 separate offers put by Nettlefold to Ross.
The original one, in March, was for a 2 year extension with a PAY-CUT plus incentives.
Six months later, Nettlefold was forced to discard that insulting offer and replace it with something approaching market-value as rumours were rife that a rival club was pursuing Ross aggressively for a 4 or 5-year multimillion deal.
Ross never dreamt of making demands remotely approximating his true worth. He is not that kind of man.
So in that sense, yes, the deal he was offered was better than the minimum he sought.
That, however, was only because Nettlefold's hand was forced as he'd left it too late and other clubs were now chasing.

Ultimately, however, money was not the reason Ross left.
Terms had been agreed, Then when pen was about to be put to paper, something occurred that cut Ross to the core.
He disappeared and went to Fremantle. It was an emotional decision, the background to which I have described in a previous post.
For Ross to have gone into the details would have looked very, very bad for our club.
But no inside information is needed to know that Ross was morally and legally entitled to do what he did.

The suggestion that Ross "screwed his management" and "screwed the club" are laughable.
My reasons for saying so are explained elsewhere, in a post to SainterK on BF:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthrea ... 02&page=18

[The Redeemer]

This first little bit of my post is not a slant on The Bossco as financial distress happens and the recent events of the GFC etc have illustrated systemic risk.

Yes he lost plenty of money due to investments in Australian miners. Yes he nearly lost his house/potentially did I am not quite sure. Yes he was in financial trouble to the point that he was living with the parents of his wife.

My point is this. If he had all of the above problems why did he quit a position that at the very least was bread on the table without a quantified offer from elsewhere? Unless.....

One cannot tell me that with his financial problems he blindly quit a position in hope of securing another position in the same industry whereby only 17 others exist and most were contracted/if not all?

That bit irks me. He is telling fibs and it is rather easy to see.