Should our heritage be used to sell online betting?

[PaulB]

I say that 'St Kilda' and "The Saints" should stand for something better. We sell ourselves too cheaply. It shouldn't happen again no matter what Mr Westaway says of other's bad behaviour.

[Enrico_Misso]

That wasn't you asking the question at the AGM was it?

I'm not a fan of gambling.
I've never been to the gambling part of Crown Casino, have only ever made one bet with Centrebet (to use the $50 credit they gave members which was effectively a new jumper for $50) and have only played the pokies two or three times in my life for a few minutes each.

However.
Whilst it is a product with an evil side where do you draw the line?

Clearly we shouldn't (can't by legislation) get tobacco sponsorship.

What about alcohol sponsorship?
It destroys just as many lives as gambling.

What about junk food?
A whole generation of fat kids are growing up eating rubbish fast food and sugary drinks.
Should we be seen taking sponsorship from them.

What about clothing companies that use sweatshop labour?
Taking money from them means we are condoning child labour etc.

What about companies that have cosy investments in countries with corrupt governments?
Their activites help support corrupt goverments that are oppressing their people.

What about .....

In the end you will have no sponsors.

As Westaway said - "If you have an alternate source of sponsorship money let me know".

Two final points.
In moderation most of those "vices" are OK.
In excess they do damage, but if you prevent someone from losing their money on pokies they will probably just turn to online gambling; ban that and they will turn to horses, or cards, or bookies etc. etc.

[Teflon]

I say that 'St Kilda' and "The Saints" should stand for something better. We sell ourselves too cheaply. It shouldn't happen again no matter what Mr Westaway says of other's bad behaviour.

Youve posted once and have an agenda. Good for you.

Im interested in my FOOTBALL club surviving....and right now in a tough corporate market beggars cant be choosers IF we wanna exist and that surely comes first???

Lets grow sposnors then turn attention to "corporate citizenship" but facts are without their coin right now we are in shyte street.

[saintbrat]

can someone fill me in ( PaulB) on what Geelong are doing to distance from pokies- given their cats Bistro survives on them? and they are bringing in 95% of gate taking to our 40%.. when we can do that then we may be able to make more stands.

[PaulB]

Enrico - you simply got your facts wrong. Research shows that when pokies are taken away, problem gambling simply drops. But that's not the real point.

There are countless sponsors that are good corporate citizens and they are in the vast majority. The glass is more than half full. Let's not take the easy money.
If Mr Westaway has run out of ideas then it is a reflection on his leadership not the market. The advertising market is doing just fine for entities whose brands stand for the image that advertisers want to be associated with.

I too am interested in our club surviving. Short term money that destroys our brand long term is my concern. Online gambling is an evidence based worry for everyone. Ads promoting live odds on television are to be banned. Live betting advertising at our stadiums are about banned too. Centrebet are using our brand, our symbol and our fine people in a way that encourages our children, young men and many others to bet online. Let others be part of this not our Saints.

Finally, we're not broke. We do and have tightened our belts. Have some faith and back us to do better.

[Verdun66]

I'll declare an interest. PaulB is a mate of mine. However.....

I have posted before that we should be doing better in terms of sponsors. Having Centrebet as our major sponsor is not a good look for the club, and is short-sighted in terms of longevity. Really an image and association we shouldn't have. Not to mention that other potential sponsors may not be happy as a co-sponsor with a gambling brand. In fact, I could virtually guarantee they would not want to be within a bull's roar.

Nettlefold's background is in advertising, and I honestly would have hoped that he would have done better. Admittedly last year was a poor one for all the reasons we know to attract new sponsors, let alone members. But MN has been in the chair a while now. I will also be the first person to heap praise on him if he comes good. Hope there is some good news soon, as has been alluded to over the past few weeks on the site. Maybe it is nothing to do with a new sponsor, but plenty of people on this site and True Sainters seem to know something. Clearly nothing mentioned tonight.

On the pokies.....that room at Moorabbin was one of the grimmest sights I've ever laid eyes on. Is that where they still are? Hardly worth the trouble.

Be interested in what Paul says about the Geelong situation. I know he's already asked a few questions of 'Eddie Everywhere' and what the Pies get up to. Probably only fair he asks the same questions of the club he and his family are members of and support.

[bigcarl]

Last time I looked, betting was legal and regulated in this country and many enjoy a bet without it impacting negatively on their lives.

Yes, some have a problem with it, but that is not the club's fault or problem.

People must take responsibility for their own actions and problem gamblers (or drinkers or drug-takers for that matter) should get help rather than wailing about it being someone else's fault.

I've got no problem with us being sponsored by a betting agency. We need the money for one thing.

[PaulB]

I was invited to debate Frank Costa of the GFC on 774 a few years ago. While I don't remember his exact words, Mr Costa stated how much he deplored pokie gambling and that he was aware of the damage it caused the addicted and their families. Clearly, his club has acted on these principles.

[kosifantutti23]

I was invited to debate Frank Costa of the GFC on 774 a few years ago. While I don't remember his exact words, Mr Costa stated how much he deplored pokie gambling and that he was aware of the damage it caused the addicted and their families. Clearly, his club has acted on these principles.

How?

[saintbrat]

I was invited to debate Frank Costa of the GFC on 774 a few years ago. While I don't remember his exact words, Mr Costa stated how much he deplored pokie gambling and that he was aware of the damage it caused the addicted and their families. Clearly, his club has acted on these principles.

YOU must have missed my Question PaulB- What have geelong done- becuase they have at least twice as many pokies as us and a second venue
Blues and Pies Both have up to 3 times as many as us.
so what is differant

If you have the luxary of NOT taking an a betting agency I too would welcome it,
BUT can you - as the Melbourne supporter did with Kapersky- bring in a million dollar sponsor to halt that

yes the Board have contacts But it's supporter an member base have just as many if not more- Give the club the information of ALTERNATIVES.

[saintspremiers]

The bigger issue Paul is getting a better return per pokie machine.

The return on our machines are lousy and we need it to improve to increase our revenue.

Beggars can't be choosers PaulB, you are very foolish to think there is plenty of money out there for our choosing. There simply can't be with so many teams in one market place.

Oh, and in case you don't get it yet, Geelong won a few flags recently. We have won zip!

[PaulB]

Geelong have publicly distanced themselves from all other AFL clubs by stating they will support betting limits. http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/art ... inion.html
We should at least do that. I concede that it is nothing tangible other than a step in the right direction but it is far more than what we have done.

Blues and Pies have close association with Woolworths (Australia's largest pokie operator) who own some of the Blues and Pies' pokie pubs and manage their pokie licenses. This also applies to the Hawks and Bulldogs. Those are the clubs most opposed to any reform. This is the sort of nasty in-house dealings we, thankfully, avoid much to the credit of our St Kilda board. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/c ... 5854279428 - and - http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/carlt ... 1b73t.html

As my mate Verdun66 correctly points out, brand association with gambling is on the nose so that the Saints are now unlikely to attract any other sponsor. That is why my request was only for the board to make it clear that the Centrebet deal would not be renewed. This way, our team really starts 2012 with a slate that is becoming clean - and - a bright future.

[Eastern]

Let's all just "Hold Off" on this topic for another 2-3 weeks. By then it might be a different arguement or there may not be an arguement to be had. In the meantime we must remember that CENTREBET is a legal entity and on-line gambling IS LEGAL !!

[SainterK]

Going by the exciting commercial development that is about to be announced (Nick alluded to it again yesterday) I don't think that's correct Paul, good news doesn't seem so unlikely.

Do I like gambling?

No not at all.

I used to work in bank and watch people empty their hard earned, or a loved ones hard earned.

But unless I nominate to be on the board, apply for the job of CEO or president, or get a position in the marketing department, I am just saying a bunch of stuff.

[HSVKing]

Enrico - you simply got your facts wrong. Research shows that when pokies are taken away, problem gambling simply drops. But that's not the real point.

Really? You believe this? You obviously have no idea about the mind of a problem gambler.

If they can't give their money away one way, they will find another to do so. Whether it is pokies, races, even Tattslotto, they will find a way to do it.

Removing the pokies isn't the answer, public education is.

[bigcarl]

If they can't give their money away one way, they will find another to do so. Whether it is pokies, races, even Tattslotto, they will find a way to do it.

Exactly right, and to ban betting forces it underground ... a bonanza for unscrupulous illegal bookies.

Rehab, education and self control is the only real answer for problem gamblers. They are the only ones who can fix the problem and often admitting that their habit is a problem is the first step.

[evertonfc]

Let's not be drawn into an argument on this topic. It's an issue of public education and family values.

I'm very comfortable with Centrebet as our major sponsor.

St Kilda supports responsible gambling.

End of discussion, really.

[saintspremiers]

Let's not be drawn into an argument on this topic. It's an issue of public education and family values.

I'm very comfortable with Centrebet as our major sponsor.

St Kilda supports responsible gambling.

End of discussion, really.

+1

Maye time to either lock this thread or move it to the General Forum where it belongs.

[matrix]

-1

i was enjoying the actual debate
why lock it?

plenty of other threads that are total crap dont get locked until the mud slinging starts

[Spinner]

I say that 'St Kilda' and "The Saints" should stand for something better. We sell ourselves too cheaply. It shouldn't happen again no matter what Mr Westaway says of other's bad behaviour.

I really dont like you....

[HSVKing]

I say that 'St Kilda' and "The Saints" should stand for something better. We sell ourselves too cheaply. It shouldn't happen again no matter what Mr Westaway says of other's bad behaviour.

I really dont like you....

[Dave McNamara]

I'll declare an interest. PaulB is a mate of mine. However.....

Be interested in what Paul says about the Geelong situation. I know he's already asked a few questions of 'Eddie Everywhere' and what the Pies get up to. Probably only fair he asks the same questions of the club he and his family are members of and support.

Hi Paul, I agree with where you are coming from. Would love to see us eventually go one better than the Rabbitohs and actually get rid of the pokies. (And also go one better than them by notching up flag No21! )

But I'm a bit confused by the last paragraph quoted above which could be read/interpreted in a couple of ways... how many clubs are you a member of/attend the AGMs of, and which one do you actually support???

[PaulB]

Only a member of the Saints and only follow the Saints. Had never attended a Saint's AGM but felt strongly about how the Centrebet sponsorship diminishes our club. Attended one Pies' AGM years ago as a member of the media but said nothing. Other than that, have not participated in any other AFL AGM.

Regarding 'Eddie Everywhere', I supplied the research that was used on ABC 774 (and nationally) where Eddie had written in his own column in the Herald Sun that a compulsory pre-commitment card was a good idea to reduce the harm of sports betting. The purpose was to show Eddie's inconsistency/hypocrisy in opposing pre-commitment for the Pies' own pokies.

[Dave McNamara]

Thanks for that Paul. I hear the pragmatists on this post, but everyone has to draw a line somewhere. I think I'd draw mine in about the same place as you. Plus you make a very sound point re the pragmatic disadvantages of being linked with gambling, as well as the moral reasons.

I hope that you can make it to many more of our AGMs.

[miskycat]

I, too, would like to thank Paul for raising the issue both at the AGM and on this forum.

I hated it when the club announced Centrebet as its sponsor, tough times or not. Gambling is an industry of misery.
It certainly doesn't make me proud to see this sponsor's name emblazoned across all our club apparel.

We are better than this.