Ruckmen - what we have learnt form the drafts

[Dr Spaceman]

I just really hope we don't end up with injuries and have to go in to a finals series with Archer and Gwilt rucking. I suspect with the loss of Misson we might see a few more hammies and calf injuries this year; it seemed he was ultra conservative and didn't allow much in the way of strenuous skills training (contributing to our shocking ball use) but he is the absolute best in the business for injury prevention.

If McEvoy holds up and Kosi/Stanley shine as the backup; fantastic. If he breaks down due to the ridiculous workload then we're stuffed.

I understand where you guys are coming from.

However if we are to make the finals again, and if we hope to go deep into the series, we will need McEvoy fit and firing. If not, someone discarded by an opponent, or a kid overlooked in the National Draft, would help but would not be enough to enable us to achieve the ultimate glory.

Over the next few years we'll need to develop a ruckman. But it must be a good ruckman. We can't afford to waste years on someone who will never be more than a backup when all else goes wrong.

[elvis lives]

I am staggered about the naivete in this post and from the club frankly, in thinking with McEvoy, Kossi, Stanley and Blake "we'll be right". All it takes is one serious injury to McEvoy and we are certainly not right. Kosi, with luck, plays about 16 games a year at the moment with injury and suspension taking up the rest. he may be able to carry ruck all season but sheesh, its not a stretch to think he might be injured at some point.

Blake is a useful backup in an emergency but hasn't played ruck in about 4 years and is very close to retirement frankly. If we have to pin our hopes on Blake as first ruck... well heaven help us. I have never seen anything in Stanley to suggest he could be consistent first ruck. or first back-up to be honest. So we have effectively one real ruckman and a three pinch hitters, one of which is injury prone, another is 189cm and verging on retirement and the other hasn't played a senior game in 2 years.

we have ZERO ruck depth. fact is you don't need a world beater in the ruck, you just need someone able to compete. Someone of size with a reasonable engine. The limited success of that Footscray doofus and Hale at Hawthorn are evidence of that. Against blake or stanley the likes of Cox, Sandilands, Jamar etc etc will basically do what they want.

Across the entire drafting period, the ruck depth issue was clear as can be and we have done nothing about it. Our strategy seems to be cross our fingers and hope that McEvoy plays all season. Granted he is durable and may well do this but it is a hell of a risk for a side with supposed premiership aspirations

[SainterK]

You have Ben and Kosi

If something happens to one of them you have Stanley

If something happens to both of them you also have Archer

If something happens to all three of them you have Blake

If something happens to all four of them, you have Jay Lever, raw but tall. Also Staley looks like he has rucked, and is a fine 6th option

If something happens to all five of them, we should sack the new conditioning guy

[elvis lives]

just because have theoretical options doesn't mean they will do any7 good in reality.

how do you reckon we will go in the event archer and stanley are our number one and two. in say.. a prelim agisnt westcoast? that would have to be the weakest ruck combo in either the AFL or the VFL or WAFL or any other two bit league.

If we have no intention of comepting of a flag then fine, lets see hwat they can do and cop the inevitable losses when they come -m in the name of development. But regardless of what people say about the game now, to win a flag you need two good ruckman playing. If it is Ben and Kosi and then we are half a chance. either of them get injured and we are no chance.

[goodie]

You have Ben and Kosi

If something happens to one of them you have Stanley

If something happens to both of them you also have Archer

If something happens to all three of them you have Blake

If something happens to all four of them, you have Jay Lever, raw but tall. Also Staley looks like he has rucked, and is a fine 6th option

If something happens to all five of them, we should sack the new conditioning guy

Ben is the only first ruck option out of that list, we'll get smashed in the middle with the other six.

[Kernal75]

I seem to recall more than a few people on here lamenting the fact we didn't have enough forwards (me for one)

Now we draft medium lead up forwards with good size and pace and all of a sudden Ruckmen should have been our priority.

Last year Big Mac rucked alone as Gardy was injured. Kosi pinch hit and probably had his best year for a while. There's only 3 clubs that can claim to have a dominant ruckmen (Collingscum, Dismantle, Weagles) the rest get by with a similar combination to what we have.

Perhaps we should have gone after Mark Blake if we were that desperate for a Ruckmen of genuine size.....

[Gershwin]

You have Ben and Kosi

If something happens to one of them you have Stanley

If something happens to both of them you also have Archer

If something happens to all three of them you have Blake

If something happens to all four of them, you have Jay Lever, raw but tall. Also Staley looks like he has rucked, and is a fine 6th option

If something happens to all five of them, we should sack the new conditioning guy

Jolly v McEvoy 50% chance of first use of the ball to our midfielders
Jolly v Kossie 25% chance of first use of the ball to our midfielders
Jolly v Stanley 15% chance of first use of the ball to our midfielders
Jolly v Archer 10% chance of first use of the ball to our midfielders
Jolly v Blake 10% chance of first use of the ball to our midfielders
Jolly v Lever 2% chance of first use of the ball to our midfielders
Jolly v Staley 1% chance of first use of the ball to our midfielders
Jolly v Saad 0.5% chance of first use of the ball to our midfielders

Jolly v another ruckman we could have taken (McCauley, Pattinson, Currie) 20% chance of first use of the ball to our midfielders.

[SainterK]

just because have theoretical options doesn't mean they will do any7 good in reality.

Just becuse we have theoretical injuries, doesn't mean there will be injured ruckmen in reality

[SainterK]

You have Ben and Kosi

If something happens to one of them you have Stanley

If something happens to both of them you also have Archer

If something happens to all three of them you have Blake

If something happens to all four of them, you have Jay Lever, raw but tall. Also Staley looks like he has rucked, and is a fine 6th option

If something happens to all five of them, we should sack the new conditioning guy

Jolly v McEvoy 50% chance of first use of the ball to our midfielders
Jolly v Kossie 25% chance of first use of the ball to our midfielders
Jolly v Stanley 15% chance of first use of the ball to our midfielders
Jolly v Archer 10% chance of first use of the ball to our midfielders
Jolly v Blake 10% chance of first use of the ball to our midfielders
Jolly v Lever 2% chance of first use of the ball to our midfielders
Jolly v Staley 1% chance of first use of the ball to our midfielders
Jolly v Saad 0.5% chance of first use of the ball to our midfielders

Jolly v another ruckman we could have taken (McCauley, Pattinson, Currie) 20% chance of first use of the ball to our midfielders.

Firstly you underestimate our midfielders, secondly you overrate Jolly

Seriously, I'd like to see a comparison of ruck stocks with this years top 4 just see how our lists compare, as I don't think it's so scary.

[realdeal]

I seem to recall more than a few people on here lamenting the fact we didn't have enough forwards (me for one)

Now we draft medium lead up forwards with good size and pace and all of a sudden Ruckmen should have been our priority.

Last year Big Mac rucked alone as Gardy was injured. Kosi pinch hit and probably had his best year for a while. There's only 3 clubs that can claim to have a dominant ruckmen (Collingscum, Dismantle, Weagles) the rest get by with a similar combination to what we have.

Perhaps we should have gone after Mark Blake if we were that desperate for a Ruckmen of genuine size.....

A balance is what some people are wanting. We did need mid fwds, maybe not 7 or 8 more all at once.
Not quite sure if its 'all of a sudden' that people have been calling out for ruckman. Its been something thats been on the radar with Gardiner and King finishing up.

I'm loving the look of our list 'going forward' (apologies for cliche) but we're asking for trouble in regards to our ruck list and potentially being a KP player short.

Yes, last year we were ok because McEvoy played nearly every game as Gardiner was injured. However, if McEvoy goes down there is no Gardiner type to take the load.

Imagine the people coming on here if Roo had to play ruck for any lengthy period of time and got injured.. anyway, its done now. Fingers crossed for Big Mac staying fit..

[Hammer]

Aren't you forgetting the Mummy in the dominant ruck list?

[LENNY LEADS THE WAY]

Leunberer and Goldstein also strong up and coming rucks

[footynut]

I agree our lack of shorts could be an issues if injury hits. But I think we'll be fine with Ben, Kosi and Stanley this year.
Next year I think we should target one of Jarrod Witts or Jonathon Ceglar, and convince one of them that there opportunities at collingwood are going to be extremely limited!

Lets steal one back

[whiskers3614]

Imagine the people coming on here if Roo had to play ruck for any lengthy period of time and got injured.. anyway, its done now. Fingers crossed for Big Mac staying fit..[/quote] Look on the bright side, if Riewoldt is in the ruck we will go through the agony of him lining up for goal a few less times, only our behind count will suffer!

[saint6709]

Stanley must stand up this year - another thread was looking for a guy to come from nowhere and star - Stanley has got to be that guy - or hopefully one of them

[True Blue Sainter]

I seem to recall more than a few people on here lamenting the fact we didn't have enough forwards (me for one)

Now we draft medium lead up forwards with good size and pace and all of a sudden Ruckmen should have been our priority.

Last year Big Mac rucked alone as Gardy was injured. Kosi pinch hit and probably had his best year for a while. There's only 3 clubs that can claim to have a dominant ruckmen (Collingscum, Dismantle, Weagles) the rest get by with a similar combination to what we have.

Perhaps we should have gone after Mark Blake if we were that desperate for a Ruckmen of genuine size.....

Jolly has been surpassed by Leuenberger, Goldstein & Jamar. Comfortably.

[PJ]

Are we seriously looking at getting another hack that can't cut it at other clubs - yet again. Ya gotta love the stats that prove one of these rejects will give our mids a 20% increase in first use.

Get a couple of young kids (lever, stanley etc) and invest the time into them. I'm not phased if they haven't set the world on fire yet - it's laughable people saying this is Stanley's last year if he doesn't cut it. Talls take time.

Buying rejects will no longer cut it.

[bergholt]

Buying rejects will no longer cut it.

crap. of course it will work sometimes. there's absolutely no reason to completely shut the door on it. in the last six years these recycled players have played in grand finals (vague list):

ottens, podsiadly, ball, brown, jolly, krakouer, tarrant, dawson, dempster, gram, milne, peake, ray, schneider, harley, mooney, gardiner, king, croad, dew, guerra, williams, motlop, rodan, d wakelin, armstrong, chick, stenglein, bolton, davis, hall, richards, ...

some were traded for, some were picked up in drafts. all were let go by a club, for whatever reason, and went on to play in a grand final - at least. some pretty solid players there.

[degruch]

Buying rejects will no longer cut it.

crap. of course it will work sometimes. there's absolutely no reason to completely shut the door on it. in the last six years these recycled players have played in grand finals (vague list):

ottens, podsiadly, ball, brown, jolly, krakouer, tarrant, dawson, dempster, gram, milne, peake, ray, schneider, harley, mooney, gardiner, king, croad, dew, guerra, williams, motlop, rodan, d wakelin, armstrong, chick, stenglein, bolton, davis, hall, richards, ...

some were traded for, some were picked up in drafts. all were let go by a club, for whatever reason, and went on to play in a grand final - at least. some pretty solid players there.

Agree...you'd expect to be sacked as a recruiter if you adopted a policy of ignoring 'recycled hacks' just because they'd played for someone else. Crazy s***. Stanley's been on the list, what, 3 years? He must be showing something behind the scenes to still be there, of course it will be his last year if he doesn't produce.

McCauley was the ruck pony to bet on this draft, not sure why we overlooked him, but happy we have Lever as a project ruck.