Firstly - what was the point of the post???
Secondly - why was it locked without giving me the right of reply??
The real question is
why is it so difficult for you (or some others) to understand, not everyone has rose coloured glasses on, and like to just make comment as THEY see it....you might not agree or like it.....but its just a comment...
if you believe I am purely negative about StK clearly you are selective about what you notice when I post.
but really
I havent called your first born ugly or critisised your mum....so why the F*** would anyone get so bent out of shape they become CONCERNED enough with my opinion and START a pathetic thread which is ridiculuos to boot....
Last time I checked, this is a supporter forum where views CAN be expressed/exchanged.....popular or unpopular....expert or amatuer(more amatuer)....its those who CANNOT accept opinions rather than just debate them.....who I consider 'a waste of time'
they are easy to spot....they attempt to ridicule and forget to mention footy.....
We should all welcome debate, difference and being challenged.....how else can one become more informed
New list manager - Reply
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The OtherThommo
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Some years back, BM, your posts provided some insight. Your opinions were temperate, contained reasoned argument and did not lean heavily beyond soundness.
Of late, you seem to have succumbed to the opinion as meaning mob i.e. if I can't construct something meaningful, I must still express an opinion. It then becomes meaningless, opinion for opinion's sake.
I, too, took interest in the draft. But, I do not think my extremely limited knowledge of the kiddies involved can surmount those that form an opinion while working in a full time job in the field. They got that gig because those who pay the bills chose to place faith in their ability to identify prospective talent.
Reading a couple of selective stats does not a reasoned critic make. Therein lies the flaw. Argue on what you know, by all means, but be stuffed if you present on things you know stuff all about. Opinions are worth naught if they are not carried into the theatre by a basis of reason.
Yeah, this is a forum and it's all about opinions. But, as soon as anyone begins blurting their opinions without the support of sound basis, they deserve the slap.
I remain sanguine about who we have selected, mainly because I wouldn't know Jimmy Webster from Seb Ross. But, I do have faith in the people we have in their respective jobs and reckon they deserve the benefit. After all, Elshaugh et al don't have a record of stuffing up.
Of course, that's all just my opinion.
Of late, you seem to have succumbed to the opinion as meaning mob i.e. if I can't construct something meaningful, I must still express an opinion. It then becomes meaningless, opinion for opinion's sake.
I, too, took interest in the draft. But, I do not think my extremely limited knowledge of the kiddies involved can surmount those that form an opinion while working in a full time job in the field. They got that gig because those who pay the bills chose to place faith in their ability to identify prospective talent.
Reading a couple of selective stats does not a reasoned critic make. Therein lies the flaw. Argue on what you know, by all means, but be stuffed if you present on things you know stuff all about. Opinions are worth naught if they are not carried into the theatre by a basis of reason.
Yeah, this is a forum and it's all about opinions. But, as soon as anyone begins blurting their opinions without the support of sound basis, they deserve the slap.
I remain sanguine about who we have selected, mainly because I wouldn't know Jimmy Webster from Seb Ross. But, I do have faith in the people we have in their respective jobs and reckon they deserve the benefit. After all, Elshaugh et al don't have a record of stuffing up.
Of course, that's all just my opinion.
'I have no new illusions, and I have no old illusions' - Vladimir Putin, Geneva, June 2021
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The Redeemer
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Re: New list manager - Reply
Aren't you the guy that Siposs' dad thought was a douche?BigMart wrote:Firstly - what was the point of the post???
Secondly - why was it locked without giving me the right of reply??
The real question is
why is it so difficult for you (or some others) to understand, not everyone has rose coloured glasses on, and like to just make comment as THEY see it....you might not agree or like it.....but its just a comment...
if you believe I am purely negative about StK clearly you are selective about what you notice when I post.
but really
I havent called your first born ugly or critisised your mum....so why the F*** would anyone get so bent out of shape they become CONCERNED enough with my opinion and START a pathetic thread which is ridiculuos to boot....
Last time I checked, this is a supporter forum where views CAN be expressed/exchanged.....popular or unpopular....expert or amatuer(more amatuer)....its those who CANNOT accept opinions rather than just debate them.....who I consider 'a waste of time'
they are easy to spot....they attempt to ridicule and forget to mention footy.....
We should all welcome debate, difference and being challenged.....how else can one become more informed
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meher baba
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I still find your posts interesting, BM.
Don't get too bothered about people attacking you on here. The mods did the right thing and closed the other thread. Posters attacking each other is boring.
I come on here to read everyone else's opinion. It really doesn't bother me what they say about anything. If I disagree with something I say so. I then often get a bucket tipped on me by someone. I don't take it personally because I generally don't know them personally.
Some people on here get too het up about stuff. And some just like being anonymous bullies, preferably as part of a group.
Don't get too bothered about people attacking you on here. The mods did the right thing and closed the other thread. Posters attacking each other is boring.
I come on here to read everyone else's opinion. It really doesn't bother me what they say about anything. If I disagree with something I say so. I then often get a bucket tipped on me by someone. I don't take it personally because I generally don't know them personally.
Some people on here get too het up about stuff. And some just like being anonymous bullies, preferably as part of a group.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
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skeptic
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saintspremiers
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Big Note - how many games of each of the players we have drafted have you seen?
If you haven't seen them live, how many minutes/hours of video of their match play have you seen?
I am not privvy to how much live action our recruiters have seen of the new boys, but can only assume they have seen plenty of video if not live.
Just a question to obtain the facts.
If you haven't seen them live, how many minutes/hours of video of their match play have you seen?
I am not privvy to how much live action our recruiters have seen of the new boys, but can only assume they have seen plenty of video if not live.
Just a question to obtain the facts.
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
What gets me BM is that you criticize our picks and say we should have picked KPP without seeing many if any of these guys play. If you had similar knowledge to our recruiters then your opinion carries some or a lot of weight but an opinion without knowledge isnt an opinion, its just writing words that mean jack and should be shot down. If I said IMO Plugger was a terrible footballer it is in my opinion but it is also crap and I should be asked for reason or shot down with stats to prove I am talking crap.
When you give stats on our players drafted you give us stats that you think prove you are right. If others find stats just prove you may not be right then that is fine.
Lets face it no one knows on here what the clubs strategy was but for example pick one most on here thought we would take Elton, the club obviously thought Elton will not be better for us in the long term than Ross so they took him. How can we say they are right or wrong without anyone really seeing them play before the draft and obviously no one including the club see them play at the higher level.
Another thing on the KPP is as you have pointed out we have lost 5 this year. Of those 5, 3 werent good enough so they were let go, one we have no idea about yet and one is at Freo and many still say he isnt good enough. That suggests we picked them up but were wasted picks. Just maybe our people thought the same would have happened with the talls in the draft this year. It is a sign of madness doing the same thing over and over again and get the same poor result.
As the saying goes opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one but some need to be flushed down the shitter as soon as they are given.
When you give stats on our players drafted you give us stats that you think prove you are right. If others find stats just prove you may not be right then that is fine.
Lets face it no one knows on here what the clubs strategy was but for example pick one most on here thought we would take Elton, the club obviously thought Elton will not be better for us in the long term than Ross so they took him. How can we say they are right or wrong without anyone really seeing them play before the draft and obviously no one including the club see them play at the higher level.
Another thing on the KPP is as you have pointed out we have lost 5 this year. Of those 5, 3 werent good enough so they were let go, one we have no idea about yet and one is at Freo and many still say he isnt good enough. That suggests we picked them up but were wasted picks. Just maybe our people thought the same would have happened with the talls in the draft this year. It is a sign of madness doing the same thing over and over again and get the same poor result.
As the saying goes opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one but some need to be flushed down the shitter as soon as they are given.
Posters attacking other posters is actually totally against the rules. I hope whoever started the thread is copping their right whack.meher baba wrote:I still find your posts interesting, BM.
Don't get too bothered about people attacking you on here. The mods did the right thing and closed the other thread. Posters attacking each other is boring.
Re: New list manager - Reply
Aren't you the poster that everyone thinks is a douche?The Redeemer wrote:Aren't you the guy that Siposs' dad thought was a douche?BigMart wrote:Firstly - what was the point of the post???
Secondly - why was it locked without giving me the right of reply??
The real question is
why is it so difficult for you (or some others) to understand, not everyone has rose coloured glasses on, and like to just make comment as THEY see it....you might not agree or like it.....but its just a comment...
if you believe I am purely negative about StK clearly you are selective about what you notice when I post.
but really
I havent called your first born ugly or critisised your mum....so why the F*** would anyone get so bent out of shape they become CONCERNED enough with my opinion and START a pathetic thread which is ridiculuos to boot....
Last time I checked, this is a supporter forum where views CAN be expressed/exchanged.....popular or unpopular....expert or amatuer(more amatuer)....its those who CANNOT accept opinions rather than just debate them.....who I consider 'a waste of time'
they are easy to spot....they attempt to ridicule and forget to mention footy.....
We should all welcome debate, difference and being challenged.....how else can one become more informed
Redeemer
How much weight does the opinion of Arryns dad carry???
have you met him??
so why make comment on it???
are afl players a special being to you, which makes people related to them a high authority.....why is his opinion of me even mentioned, and just maybe there is an opinion the other way....
I once taught a kid who ended up playing in europe, for the socceroos and is currently in the A league....idiot kid, bigger idiot dad...
on the other hand had Al Westovers boy in 2002 and Al was an absolute gentleman.....so it depends on the person, not their talent....BTW Arryn was a terrific student/kid....even better footballer, which is why I regret making comment on the issue...not because of his dad...
P66 - you place your faith in the people put in charge of the club to make the right decisions, thats fine, thats you....History suggests you are right to do so....SOME of the time.....Other times they have made monumental F*** ups....that cannot be argued....Our history suggest this...
I often disagree with the strategy the club follows (on many things), of course I dont know any better.....I do have the right to voice my opinion, I just get shot down because I often go early with calls...what actually irks people....
I would also say I have been both wrong and right given hindsight, with well documented examples....I remember having a similar debate following the 2009 draft for instance...
When I have time I do research the kids, but only online these days (last year I did not) and watch clips and read as much as I possibly can to get some sort of picture.....previous years I watched the champs and went to some TAC cup games to watch students play or young cricketers I coached play....most of my intell actually came from boys who play TAC cup who id ask opinions about....
This years critisism was not about the kids we drafted....they seem OK, as I said, and whilst they certainly are not superstar kids....we did not have the picks to do any better.....
I was more interested in the type as you know
and the argument that they maybe NO good because we overlooked them....and I havent seen the KPP kids.
Do you reckon Richmonds recruiting manager....Pick 26....Elton
Geelongs recruiting manager.....pick 34....Kersten
Western Bulldogs.....Pick 39......Talia
Sydney.......Pick 43......Lockyer
Collingwoods.....Pick 50....Paine
WCE......Pick 26......Darling
all have NO idea, or have drafted kids to sit in the seconds??????
all these kids are highly rated, just like ours....but a different type
Saintspremiers....am I allowed to have an amatuer opinion??
How many have you seen....if none, by your logic....you cannot disagree with me, as you dont have the facts either....
if every person can only make comment on the draft, if they have seen a kids train and play regularly......only a handful of people in australia would be able to comment....Radio/Internet suggests otherwise
I know for a FACT a former recruiter at STK drafted a number of players without ever seeing them play live
Other Thommo...reasonable points, I dont think I have changed too much....I remember clearly the furore about Howard 2006.....then Cousins, Lovett, Sweeney, Cripps....I think one forumite wanted to actually kill me when I suggested Sweeney was a wasted pick which should have went to a kid who worked hard for an opportunity...I had it on good authority that he was not AFL material, for a few reasons.....I wont go into....even dating back to 2002 I bagged Heath Black and it created a storm....
I would be happier without the drama, but
I am going to continue to question things, like it or not......by all means, counter....
all said and done.....I hope when I applaud the club I am right, when I bag the club, I am wrong (which I often am)
How much weight does the opinion of Arryns dad carry???
have you met him??
so why make comment on it???
are afl players a special being to you, which makes people related to them a high authority.....why is his opinion of me even mentioned, and just maybe there is an opinion the other way....
I once taught a kid who ended up playing in europe, for the socceroos and is currently in the A league....idiot kid, bigger idiot dad...
on the other hand had Al Westovers boy in 2002 and Al was an absolute gentleman.....so it depends on the person, not their talent....BTW Arryn was a terrific student/kid....even better footballer, which is why I regret making comment on the issue...not because of his dad...
P66 - you place your faith in the people put in charge of the club to make the right decisions, thats fine, thats you....History suggests you are right to do so....SOME of the time.....Other times they have made monumental F*** ups....that cannot be argued....Our history suggest this...
I often disagree with the strategy the club follows (on many things), of course I dont know any better.....I do have the right to voice my opinion, I just get shot down because I often go early with calls...what actually irks people....
I would also say I have been both wrong and right given hindsight, with well documented examples....I remember having a similar debate following the 2009 draft for instance...
When I have time I do research the kids, but only online these days (last year I did not) and watch clips and read as much as I possibly can to get some sort of picture.....previous years I watched the champs and went to some TAC cup games to watch students play or young cricketers I coached play....most of my intell actually came from boys who play TAC cup who id ask opinions about....
This years critisism was not about the kids we drafted....they seem OK, as I said, and whilst they certainly are not superstar kids....we did not have the picks to do any better.....
I was more interested in the type as you know
and the argument that they maybe NO good because we overlooked them....and I havent seen the KPP kids.
Do you reckon Richmonds recruiting manager....Pick 26....Elton
Geelongs recruiting manager.....pick 34....Kersten
Western Bulldogs.....Pick 39......Talia
Sydney.......Pick 43......Lockyer
Collingwoods.....Pick 50....Paine
WCE......Pick 26......Darling
all have NO idea, or have drafted kids to sit in the seconds??????
all these kids are highly rated, just like ours....but a different type
Saintspremiers....am I allowed to have an amatuer opinion??
How many have you seen....if none, by your logic....you cannot disagree with me, as you dont have the facts either....
if every person can only make comment on the draft, if they have seen a kids train and play regularly......only a handful of people in australia would be able to comment....Radio/Internet suggests otherwise
I know for a FACT a former recruiter at STK drafted a number of players without ever seeing them play live
Other Thommo...reasonable points, I dont think I have changed too much....I remember clearly the furore about Howard 2006.....then Cousins, Lovett, Sweeney, Cripps....I think one forumite wanted to actually kill me when I suggested Sweeney was a wasted pick which should have went to a kid who worked hard for an opportunity...I had it on good authority that he was not AFL material, for a few reasons.....I wont go into....even dating back to 2002 I bagged Heath Black and it created a storm....
I would be happier without the drama, but
I am going to continue to question things, like it or not......by all means, counter....
all said and done.....I hope when I applaud the club I am right, when I bag the club, I am wrong (which I often am)
Redeemer
How much weight does the opinion of Arryns dad carry???
have you met him??
so why make comment on it???
are afl players a special being to you, which makes people related to them a high authority.....why is his opinion of me even mentioned, and just maybe there is an opinion the other way....
I once taught a kid who ended up playing in europe, for the socceroos and is currently in the A league....idiot kid, bigger idiot dad...
on the other hand had Al Westovers boy in 2002 and Al was an absolute gentleman.....so it depends on the person, not their talent....BTW Arryn was a terrific student/kid....even better footballer, which is why I regret making comment on the issue...not because of his dad...
P66 - you place your faith in the people put in charge of the club to make the right decisions, thats fine, thats you....History suggests you are right to do so....SOME of the time.....Other times they have made monumental F*** ups....that cannot be argued....Our history suggest this...
I often disagree with the strategy the club follows (on many things), of course I dont know any better.....I do have the right to voice my opinion, I just get shot down because I often go early with calls...what actually irks people....
I would also say I have been both wrong and right given hindsight, with well documented examples....I remember having a similar debate following the 2009 draft for instance...
When I have time I do research the kids, but only online these days (last year I did not) and watch clips and read as much as I possibly can to get some sort of picture.....previous years I watched the champs and went to some TAC cup games to watch students play or young cricketers I coached play....most of my intell actually came from boys who play TAC cup who id ask opinions about....
This years critisism was not about the kids we drafted....they seem OK, as I said, and whilst they certainly are not superstar kids....we did not have the picks to do any better.....
I was more interested in the type as you know
and the argument that they maybe NO good because we overlooked them....and I havent seen the KPP kids.
Do you reckon Richmonds recruiting manager....Pick 26....Elton
Geelongs recruiting manager.....pick 34....Kersten
Western Bulldogs.....Pick 39......Talia
Sydney.......Pick 43......Lockyer
Collingwoods.....Pick 50....Paine
WCE......Pick 26......Darling
all have NO idea, or have drafted kids to sit in the seconds??????
all these kids are highly rated, just like ours....but a different type
Saintspremiers....am I allowed to have an amatuer opinion??
How many have you seen....if none, by your logic....you cannot disagree with me, as you dont have the facts either....
if every person can only make comment on the draft, if they have seen a kids train and play regularly......only a handful of people in australia would be able to comment....Radio/Internet suggests otherwise
I know for a FACT a former recruiter at STK drafted a number of players without ever seeing them play live
Other Thommo...reasonable points, I dont think I have changed too much....I remember clearly the furore about Howard 2006.....then Cousins, Lovett, Sweeney, Cripps....I think one forumite wanted to actually kill me when I suggested Sweeney was a wasted pick which should have went to a kid who worked hard for an opportunity...I had it on good authority that he was not AFL material, for a few reasons.....I wont go into....even dating back to 2002 I bagged Heath Black and it created a storm....
I would be happier without the drama, but
I am going to continue to question things, like it or not......by all means, counter....
all said and done.....I hope when I applaud the club I am right, when I bag the club, I am wrong (which I often am)
How much weight does the opinion of Arryns dad carry???
have you met him??
so why make comment on it???
are afl players a special being to you, which makes people related to them a high authority.....why is his opinion of me even mentioned, and just maybe there is an opinion the other way....
I once taught a kid who ended up playing in europe, for the socceroos and is currently in the A league....idiot kid, bigger idiot dad...
on the other hand had Al Westovers boy in 2002 and Al was an absolute gentleman.....so it depends on the person, not their talent....BTW Arryn was a terrific student/kid....even better footballer, which is why I regret making comment on the issue...not because of his dad...
P66 - you place your faith in the people put in charge of the club to make the right decisions, thats fine, thats you....History suggests you are right to do so....SOME of the time.....Other times they have made monumental F*** ups....that cannot be argued....Our history suggest this...
I often disagree with the strategy the club follows (on many things), of course I dont know any better.....I do have the right to voice my opinion, I just get shot down because I often go early with calls...what actually irks people....
I would also say I have been both wrong and right given hindsight, with well documented examples....I remember having a similar debate following the 2009 draft for instance...
When I have time I do research the kids, but only online these days (last year I did not) and watch clips and read as much as I possibly can to get some sort of picture.....previous years I watched the champs and went to some TAC cup games to watch students play or young cricketers I coached play....most of my intell actually came from boys who play TAC cup who id ask opinions about....
This years critisism was not about the kids we drafted....they seem OK, as I said, and whilst they certainly are not superstar kids....we did not have the picks to do any better.....
I was more interested in the type as you know
and the argument that they maybe NO good because we overlooked them....and I havent seen the KPP kids.
Do you reckon Richmonds recruiting manager....Pick 26....Elton
Geelongs recruiting manager.....pick 34....Kersten
Western Bulldogs.....Pick 39......Talia
Sydney.......Pick 43......Lockyer
Collingwoods.....Pick 50....Paine
WCE......Pick 26......Darling
all have NO idea, or have drafted kids to sit in the seconds??????
all these kids are highly rated, just like ours....but a different type
Saintspremiers....am I allowed to have an amatuer opinion??
How many have you seen....if none, by your logic....you cannot disagree with me, as you dont have the facts either....
if every person can only make comment on the draft, if they have seen a kids train and play regularly......only a handful of people in australia would be able to comment....Radio/Internet suggests otherwise
I know for a FACT a former recruiter at STK drafted a number of players without ever seeing them play live
Other Thommo...reasonable points, I dont think I have changed too much....I remember clearly the furore about Howard 2006.....then Cousins, Lovett, Sweeney, Cripps....I think one forumite wanted to actually kill me when I suggested Sweeney was a wasted pick which should have went to a kid who worked hard for an opportunity...I had it on good authority that he was not AFL material, for a few reasons.....I wont go into....even dating back to 2002 I bagged Heath Black and it created a storm....
I would be happier without the drama, but
I am going to continue to question things, like it or not......by all means, counter....
all said and done.....I hope when I applaud the club I am right, when I bag the club, I am wrong (which I often am)
A lot of me me me in that but forgetting that I will answer what you have directed at me. Firstly I have never said other clubs have no idea because they drafted talls and we didnt. Firstly every club has different needs and secondly and probably more importantly every recruiting officer sees things differently but the important word is that they see these guys often so they do have informed opinions. lets face yours, mine and probably everyone else on here aint when talking about this years draft. While we are on me, me ,me you may have noticed I havent criticized or said well done on the picks because I am uniformed so it is the sensible thing to do without seeing more than silly highlights tapes.
Yes the club make many mistakes in recruiting and as I have said previously 2008 and 2009 seem like a disgrace but maybe due to being gutless or I would think sensible I wasnt going to have a go at those picks without seeing them play at least VFL footy.
Going early with opinions is fine if you have knowledge but when you dont and lets face I doubt you have knowledge of 99% of kids drafted that is when people crack it and i believe fair enough too.
Yes the club make many mistakes in recruiting and as I have said previously 2008 and 2009 seem like a disgrace but maybe due to being gutless or I would think sensible I wasnt going to have a go at those picks without seeing them play at least VFL footy.
Going early with opinions is fine if you have knowledge but when you dont and lets face I doubt you have knowledge of 99% of kids drafted that is when people crack it and i believe fair enough too.
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HitTheBoundary
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Gee AFL , Soccer , Basketball and no doubt some Cricket in there as well you are the true all rounder when it comes to kids coached and teached . From this day forward I shall respect all that you say as someone that has accomplished so much would have to know more than anyone else even the guys paid to do their job. As someone has said opinions are like arseholes and you my friend have a severe dose of Diarrheawhen it comes to opinions. 
Just my opinion of course.
Just my opinion of course.
Jack Newnes happy to be a Saint !!!! PS and to hit a target !!!
Didnt someone start a post.....aimed directly at me...
I suppose I asked them to do that....I think that is strange...
IMO - I have have the right of reply...the thread was locked
P66..of course its about me, someone directed a post at me - I replied, why would it be about anyone else???
doubt is a key word you used.....it suggests that you are also forming an opinion without full knowledge...
Not sure you've ever acknowledged either.....doesnt suit your agenda
BTW - whats your football commentary on the make up of our list??
(you often concern youself with others commentary, you forget to give you opinon... or is it always the 'clubs always right' opinion...if thats the case, your opinion is as successful as the club)
Is the list good because thats what the club deem, or do YOU think its unbalanced???
Love to here your pespective
I suppose I asked them to do that....I think that is strange...
IMO - I have have the right of reply...the thread was locked
P66..of course its about me, someone directed a post at me - I replied, why would it be about anyone else???
doubt is a key word you used.....it suggests that you are also forming an opinion without full knowledge...
Not sure you've ever acknowledged either.....doesnt suit your agenda
BTW - whats your football commentary on the make up of our list??
(you often concern youself with others commentary, you forget to give you opinon... or is it always the 'clubs always right' opinion...if thats the case, your opinion is as successful as the club)
Is the list good because thats what the club deem, or do YOU think its unbalanced???
Love to here your pespective
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meher baba
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Look, P66 and others, you're 100% right: BM does go off half-cocked with strongly-expressed views about players which he can't have seen much of, and he bags the club a lot even though he doesn't really understand what they are trying to do.
But what he says is interesting. I mean, anyone can make the bleedingly obvious point that we won't know how good the new recruits are going to be, or even what roles they will play for a while. But it's the sort of point you can make once and then the only options you've really got are either to say nothing more or else to keep making the same point again and again.
Dullsville, however you look at it.
BM is interesting. Sure, he's been negative about our list management in recent years. But he's generally been right.
But what he says is interesting. I mean, anyone can make the bleedingly obvious point that we won't know how good the new recruits are going to be, or even what roles they will play for a while. But it's the sort of point you can make once and then the only options you've really got are either to say nothing more or else to keep making the same point again and again.
Dullsville, however you look at it.
BM is interesting. Sure, he's been negative about our list management in recent years. But he's generally been right.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
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meher baba
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Look, P66 and others, you're 100% right: BM does go off half-cocked with strongly-expressed views about players which he can't have seen much of, and he bags the club a lot even though he doesn't really understand what they are trying to do.
But what he says is interesting. I mean, anyone can make the bleedingly obvious point that we won't know how good the new recruits are going to be, or even what roles they will play for a while. But it's the sort of point you can make once and then the only options you've really got are either to say nothing more or else to keep making the same point again and again.
Dullsville, however you look at it.
BM is interesting. Sure, he's been negative about our list management in recent years. But he's generally been right.
But what he says is interesting. I mean, anyone can make the bleedingly obvious point that we won't know how good the new recruits are going to be, or even what roles they will play for a while. But it's the sort of point you can make once and then the only options you've really got are either to say nothing more or else to keep making the same point again and again.
Dullsville, however you look at it.
BM is interesting. Sure, he's been negative about our list management in recent years. But he's generally been right.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
- Jonathan Swift
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Spinner
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meher baba wrote:I still find your posts interesting, BM.
Don't get too bothered about people attacking you on here. The mods did the right thing and closed the other thread. Posters attacking each other is boring.
I come on here to read everyone else's opinion. It really doesn't bother me what they say about anything. If I disagree with something I say so. I then often get a bucket tipped on me by someone. I don't take it personally because I generally don't know them personally.
Some people on here get too het up about stuff. And some just like being anonymous bullies, preferably as part of a group.
Are you confusing others disagreeing with his opinions as attacks and bullying?
Bar a select few I think so.
None the less, you sound like such a sweetheart after this post though, very gentile and kind.
Middo - seriously... your comment is quite silly
every teacher along the way would have come into contact with future success stories, its inevitable....what does that actually mean?
you do realise these kids have to go to a school somewhere???
and by chance a couple ended up in my classes along the line - thats all
Did I say I was at all responsible for any of their successes??..they also have up to 50 other teaching staff who come into contact with them in high school....
Of course over 15 years I have had the pleasure of knowing or teaching many talented kids...as have every other staff member at the same school
Some musically, some academically, some sporting.....is that a surprise?? its just a statistical certainty....
does that make the teachers special??? the school special??? or the kids special???......
Is that anything to brag about???
NO, It is more to do with the kids talent and determination....and the ONLY real thing I pass on is giving them the info to help them pass the subject matter needed...and hopefully forming a positive relationship.....
EVERY teacher in Victoria would have taught multiple success stories along the way, by chance......did they influence their success, maybe....were they responsible.....not likely...
I have also taught many at the other end of the spectrum....kids who are now in gaol, drug addicts, committed suicide....
am I also responsible for that???
if I am taking credit for one, I should then take the blame for the other
Parents can be proud of a kids ultimate success
I am proud of them if they do well in my subject
So really - I am not sure about you point
every teacher along the way would have come into contact with future success stories, its inevitable....what does that actually mean?
you do realise these kids have to go to a school somewhere???
and by chance a couple ended up in my classes along the line - thats all
Did I say I was at all responsible for any of their successes??..they also have up to 50 other teaching staff who come into contact with them in high school....
Of course over 15 years I have had the pleasure of knowing or teaching many talented kids...as have every other staff member at the same school
Some musically, some academically, some sporting.....is that a surprise?? its just a statistical certainty....
does that make the teachers special??? the school special??? or the kids special???......
Is that anything to brag about???
NO, It is more to do with the kids talent and determination....and the ONLY real thing I pass on is giving them the info to help them pass the subject matter needed...and hopefully forming a positive relationship.....
EVERY teacher in Victoria would have taught multiple success stories along the way, by chance......did they influence their success, maybe....were they responsible.....not likely...
I have also taught many at the other end of the spectrum....kids who are now in gaol, drug addicts, committed suicide....
am I also responsible for that???
if I am taking credit for one, I should then take the blame for the other
Parents can be proud of a kids ultimate success
I am proud of them if they do well in my subject
So really - I am not sure about you point
The me, me, me was directed at you not for starting the thread. You had every right to protect yourself after the other was locked but it seems that you like to bring in things about yourself. Anyway that is unimportant. Your call on that.BigMart wrote:Didnt someone start a post.....aimed directly at me...
I suppose I asked them to do that....I think that is strange...
IMO - I have have the right of reply...the thread was locked
P66..of course its about me, someone directed a post at me - I replied, why would it be about anyone else???
doubt is a key word you used.....it suggests that you are also forming an opinion without full knowledge...
Not sure you've ever acknowledged either.....doesnt suit your agenda
BTW - whats your football commentary on the make up of our list??
(you often concern youself with others commentary, you forget to give you opinon... or is it always the 'clubs always right' opinion...if thats the case, your opinion is as successful as the club)
Is the list good because thats what the club deem, or do YOU think its unbalanced???
Love to here your pespective
As for your question. I think our list is a 6-10 list which usually happens after a sustained period at the top. Our picks have been high numbers and apart form the odd gem at every club you usually need top 5 picks to get back up the ladder. We will get them in a couple of years IMO. Also i get confused about you saying the club is always right. I dont bag selections of draft picks or tem selection because I dont have the inside knowledge that others in the club have. Fail to see how that then means they are always right. All that says to me is they know more than me so i will 90% of the time shut up. If they had drafted Fev I would have had an opinion because most of us know all his highs and lows. I have said plenty of times that some of our recruits from other clubs are crap and a waste of time. Even after the first game this year I went early on Gamble as I didnt like what I saw. I was hoping that I would be wrong but in the end he had many football faults.
P66
I think you have misunderstood?? on a couple of fronts....firstly, I dont think the players we picked up are bad players (you get that I hope) or will definitely fail. I was concerned with the Balance of the list.....lack of KPP depth/development....we lost 5, recruited NONE and have 4 within 3 years of retirement.
So the question to you was, what do you think of the make up/balance of the list....not rating the list (which evidently I rate higher than you, given your rating)
other point
So you are saying your willing to back their decision in, until you Know otherwise....so in hindsight.....blind faith, which is what I said before, and thats fine....just not how I operate
another question....how do you think our recent history of our list management???
because if our list balance is OK this year....it must have been wrong last year....because the ratio has changed somewhat.....add to that
the percentage of players still on the list from the 2006-2010 drafts
those years I have WRONGLY been critical of in the past.....because of my ignorance
I think you have misunderstood?? on a couple of fronts....firstly, I dont think the players we picked up are bad players (you get that I hope) or will definitely fail. I was concerned with the Balance of the list.....lack of KPP depth/development....we lost 5, recruited NONE and have 4 within 3 years of retirement.
So the question to you was, what do you think of the make up/balance of the list....not rating the list (which evidently I rate higher than you, given your rating)
other point
So you are saying your willing to back their decision in, until you Know otherwise....so in hindsight.....blind faith, which is what I said before, and thats fine....just not how I operate
another question....how do you think our recent history of our list management???
because if our list balance is OK this year....it must have been wrong last year....because the ratio has changed somewhat.....add to that
the percentage of players still on the list from the 2006-2010 drafts
those years I have WRONGLY been critical of in the past.....because of my ignorance
Sorry but losing tall seconds players doesnt unbalance our firsts list. It probably unbalances Sandy but i care as much for them as i do for the pies. We lost Zac and that was it from the firsts side. He may be replaced by Wilkes, he may not but even if we drafted a young FB there is no guarantee he will ever play firsts due to high nature of the picks. As for the rest of the list we are obviously hoping our young tall picks come on. After all you would have been happy with them because they are tall even if they not be any good.BigMart wrote:P66
I think you have misunderstood?? on a couple of fronts....firstly, I dont think the players we picked up are bad players (you get that I hope) or will definitely fail. I was concerned with the Balance of the list.....lack of KPP depth/development....we lost 5, recruited NONE and have 4 within 3 years of retirement.
So the question to you was, what do you think of the make up/balance of the list....not rating the list (which evidently I rate higher than you, given your rating)
other point
So you are saying your willing to back their decision in, until you Know otherwise....so in hindsight.....blind faith, which is what I said before, and thats fine....just not how I operate
another question....how do you think our recent history of our list management???
because if our list balance is OK this year....it must have been wrong last year....because the ratio has changed somewhat.....add to that
the percentage of players still on the list from the 2006-2010 drafts
those years I have WRONGLY been critical of in the past.....because of my ignorance
As for our previous list management. I am unsure that has anything to do with this year. Footy changes yearly and IMO is being more and more decided by mids. You hardly need many KPP. You obviously think differently which is again ok but you dont draft talls to get the balance right if they are no good or not as good as the mids you want to draft. In hindsight we got Johnson, Lynch and Cahill as talls but I reckon we would have rathered smalls as they couldnt have gone any worse than those guys but hey it balanced the list with those talls.