What was wrong with what Ross Lyon did?

[samuraisaint]

Don't like what Rossy did, but I did enjoy watching the saints win 65% of their games under him and always being competitive, not to mention four finals appearances and three grand finals.
Personally reckon Lyon may have left earlier if we had pinched one of those Flags, and gone for the big bucks at Carlton, most likely.

I was a lot more upset at the club for the shabby treatment of Thomas after three consecutive finals series including two third place finishes, and Stan Alves after two excellent years.

I, for one won't be booing Rossy, but I hope we (keep) flog(ging) Freo for the next ten years because of this.

All that stuff with Ball and Walsh shows that he was flawed as a teacher list developer and mentor, but he did prove himself excellent as a match day coach and strategist.

I just hope that Watters makes us more exciting to watch and develops an attacking side to our game. That is his great challenge (along with reinvigorating the list of course).

[bobmurray]

POINT TWO




POINT THREE.



The more read, hear and see up him.....the more I am impressed.

So you liked the view......

[Bowey Boy]

"where else would I be".

[Moods]

Don't like what Rossy did, but I did enjoy watching the saints win 65% of their games under him and always being competitive, not to mention four finals appearances and three grand finals.
Personally reckon Lyon may have left earlier if we had pinched one of those Flags, and gone for the big bucks at Carlton, most likely.

I was a lot more upset at the club for the shabby treatment of Thomas after three consecutive finals series including two third place finishes, and Stan Alves after two excellent years.

I, for one won't be booing Rossy, but I hope we (keep) flog(ging) Freo for the next ten years because of this.

All that stuff with Ball and Walsh shows that he was flawed as a teacher list developer and mentor, but he did prove himself excellent as a match day coach and strategist.

I just hope that Watters makes us more exciting to watch and develops an attacking side to our game. That is his great challenge (along with reinvigorating the list of course).

Disagree. Was a ballsy and correct move by the club. History has proven it to be the correct move as well, with Lyon taking us to 3 consecutive prelim finals and 2 consecutive GF's with arguably an inferior list. Sure we didn't snare the ultimate but he got us bloody close. 2010 was one of the best coaching years I have ever seen. The competition's best and most valuable player goes down long term, and comes back after 16 weeks out of the game. Still the team keeps finding ways to win, including an epic win over the cats mid season. They play off in a GF against a team who has not just beaten, but pulverised every team for the past 12 weeks, including an average winning margin of 60+ points in the finals. We are down by 4 goals at half time but somehow hanging in, and yet manage to find a way to draw the game and probably should have won it. Winning flags is the ultimate mark of coaching greatness, but getting close to a team which are far superior is really what great coaching is all about.

Having said all that - he wasn't perfect, and I'm as excited as anyone of a new coach taking the reins. If RL wanted to leave, then let him go. Same as Riewoldt, Goddard or any of them. We need personnel around the club who want to be there

[Moccha]

There was nothing wrong with enforcing the get out clause, it was the devious way in which he did it. Negotiating behind his manager and St Kilda's back without their knowledge while they thought that they were coming to an agreement between all parties was a low and dirty act which in the end resulted in a complete and utter waste of time. Why didn't Lyon have the guts to come out and front all parties saying that he'd had enough?
It really shows the true character of the guy - a selfish cold blooded individual. He'll always be chasing the impossible dream, never to be fulfilled.

So Lyon should have announced he had the job at freo before Harvey had been told he'd been sacked.

Any decent person would have entered into 3rd party negotiations after telling their boss they were walking from their contract. What do you bloody think?

To put it straight he was bloody deceitful and dishonest.

This pretty well sums up what I think

I have no problem with WHY he left...
I have an issue with HOW he left.

Going behind your agent's back is pretty ordinary.

To send a text message to your agent and your employers saying you're accepting the offer and to announce a presser for the next day only to say later that day that you're going to Fremantle is pretty ordinary.

Once you give the commitment then that should be it.

If you are still fielding offers then you should either tell your agent and employer that you are doing so. I find that employer/employee relationships that are built on trust work best. Clearly, Ross didn't trust the Saints management.

And based on the above, IMO Lyon is a farking arsehole. I now understand why we continually had a revolving door of assistant coaches.

[WinnersOnly]

I cant believe people cant see that the club had an inferior list because of his recruiting strategies. Giving away draft picks for rejects and for rejecting the development of our own youth.

LYON was interested in one thing alone and that was to build up his own resume! He had no interest in the club - I recall seeing him at a Sandringham game and when he took the time to watch our players running around he looked upon them with disdain.

He had no interest in the future of the club he was there just to reap the short term rewards ONLY.

[Moods]

There was nothing wrong with enforcing the get out clause, it was the devious way in which he did it. Negotiating behind his manager and St Kilda's back without their knowledge while they thought that they were coming to an agreement between all parties was a low and dirty act which in the end resulted in a complete and utter waste of time. Why didn't Lyon have the guts to come out and front all parties saying that he'd had enough?
It really shows the true character of the guy - a selfish cold blooded individual. He'll always be chasing the impossible dream, never to be fulfilled.

So Lyon should have announced he had the job at freo before Harvey had been told he'd been sacked.

Any decent person would have entered into 3rd party negotiations after telling their boss they were walking from their contract. What do you bloody think?

To put it straight he was bloody deceitful and dishonest.

What? Deceitful and dishonest to who? Harvey's contract with Freo has nothing to do with Lyon. That's his problem.

So you would tell your current boss that you were going for a job interview with someone else? I don't know anyone who would do that in the real world.

[Moccha]

There was nothing wrong with enforcing the get out clause, it was the devious way in which he did it. Negotiating behind his manager and St Kilda's back without their knowledge while they thought that they were coming to an agreement between all parties was a low and dirty act which in the end resulted in a complete and utter waste of time. Why didn't Lyon have the guts to come out and front all parties saying that he'd had enough?
It really shows the true character of the guy - a selfish cold blooded individual. He'll always be chasing the impossible dream, never to be fulfilled.

So Lyon should have announced he had the job at freo before Harvey had been told he'd been sacked.

Any decent person would have entered into 3rd party negotiations after telling their boss they were walking from their contract. What do you bloody think?

To put it straight he was bloody deceitful and dishonest.

What? Deceitful and dishonest to who? Harvey's contract with Freo has nothing to do with Lyon. That's his problem.

So you would tell your current boss that you were going for a job interview with someone else? I don't know anyone who would do that in the real world.

Deceitful to his manager and the St Kilda FC as he made it known that he had accepted the terms and conditions of the new contract that was put forward to him. I really don't care what anyone you know would do.

The fact of the matter is Lyon is an arsehole. See the post above

[Moods]

There was nothing wrong with enforcing the get out clause, it was the devious way in which he did it. Negotiating behind his manager and St Kilda's back without their knowledge while they thought that they were coming to an agreement between all parties was a low and dirty act which in the end resulted in a complete and utter waste of time. Why didn't Lyon have the guts to come out and front all parties saying that he'd had enough?
It really shows the true character of the guy - a selfish cold blooded individual. He'll always be chasing the impossible dream, never to be fulfilled.

So Lyon should have announced he had the job at freo before Harvey had been told he'd been sacked.

Any decent person would have entered into 3rd party negotiations after telling their boss they were walking from their contract. What do you bloody think?

To put it straight he was bloody deceitful and dishonest.

What? Deceitful and dishonest to who? Harvey's contract with Freo has nothing to do with Lyon. That's his problem.

So you would tell your current boss that you were going for a job interview with someone else? I don't know anyone who would do that in the real world.

Deceitful to his manager and the St Kilda FC as he made it known that he had accepted the terms and conditions of the new contract that was put forward to him. I really don't care what anyone you know would do.

The fact of the matter is Lyon is an arsehole. See the post above

Yeah I read your post. You've used a lot of emotive adjectives to describe Lyon basically b/c you are bitter that he left. I highly doubt you would describe the millions of other people that move blissfully from one job to another every day around the world in all sorts of different circumstances. Most of them being interviewed whilst still in their previous employment. We are talking football though, which is a highly emotive game.

P.S. - quick scenario. A mortgage broker attends your house and you agree with the terms of the contract. In fact you sign the contract b/c it's better than what your previous bank could offer. There is a 3 day cooling off period in which you can terminate the contract after signing it though. You inform your previous bank who informs you that not only can they match the offer but will beat it. Your dillema? You have already signed a contract and agreed to terms with another bank. Surely only a low. selfish person would backflip the mortgage broker and look after their own interests?

[BigMart]

I have zero problems with what he did.....I am sure his manager did..

Football is a business.....he got a better offer put to him and accepted....simple

So did Ball

So did Walsh

So did Lockett

So did Hall

I dont blame any of them....and for the majority, they have made the correct decision professionally and would NOT regret it....infact be glad they did it

If we want to keep them we need to be more convincing in reasons why they should stay (renumeration, opportunity, resources...etc..)

as lyon said "it took freo 12 hrs to do what StK couldnt get done in 6 mths"

[desertsaint]

I have zero problems with what he did.....I am sure his manager did..

Football is a business.....he got a better offer put to him and accepted....simple

So did Ball

So did Walsh

So did Lockett

So did Hall

I dont blame any of them....and for the majority, they have made the correct decision professionally and would NOT regret it....infact be glad they did it

If we want to keep them we need to be more convincing in reasons why they should stay (renumeration, opportunity, resources...etc..)

as lyon said "it took freo 12 hrs to do what StK couldnt get done in 6 mths"

freo knew the other party involved and no doubt knew the offer to beat.
st kilda - ross's employer for the last five years, and the club that gave him a chance - was not afforded the same opportunity.

[bigcarl]

I was a lot more upset at the club for the shabby treatment of Thomas after three consecutive finals series.

Agree, and that was with the young, injury-ravaged and still-physically-developing core group that HE built.

Interestingly, GT's record over his last three seasons (after we stopped tanking for draft picks) was 67 per cent.

Lyin's (if I recall correctly) is 63 per cent.

Yes Lyin' got us into Grand Finals ... but that core group of players (which GT built) was always going to play in Grand Finals once it matured physically and mentally.

GT would have brought home the bacon IMO.

As for Lyin', I'm glad he's gone. Some say GT had a better list to work with, but who's fault is that? Lyin's IMO for not developing players.

[SainterK]

I didn't like how he used words that he could wriggle away from.

I'm 'committed as ever' etc etc.

[Rosco]

i'm committed to my contract, *cough* (which includes an out clause) *cough*

[SaintPav]

There was nothing wrong with enforcing the get out clause, it was the devious way in which he did it. Negotiating behind his manager and St Kilda's back without their knowledge while they thought that they were coming to an agreement between all parties was a low and dirty act which in the end resulted in a complete and utter waste of time. Why didn't Lyon have the guts to come out and front all parties saying that he'd had enough?
It really shows the true character of the guy - a selfish cold blooded individual. He'll always be chasing the impossible dream, never to be fulfilled.

So Lyon should have announced he had the job at freo before Harvey had been told he'd been sacked.

Any decent person would have entered into 3rd party negotiations after telling their boss they were walking from their contract. What do you bloody think?

To put it straight he was bloody deceitful and dishonest.

What? Deceitful and dishonest to who? Harvey's contract with Freo has nothing to do with Lyon. That's his problem.

So you would tell your current boss that you were going for a job interview with someone else? I don't know anyone who would do that in the real world.

Deceitful to his manager and the St Kilda FC as he made it known that he had accepted the terms and conditions of the new contract that was put forward to him. I really don't care what anyone you know would do.

The fact of the matter is Lyon is an arsehole. See the post above

Yeah I read your post. You've used a lot of emotive adjectives to describe Lyon basically b/c you are bitter that he left. I highly doubt you would describe the millions of other people that move blissfully from one job to another every day around the world in all sorts of different circumstances. Most of them being interviewed whilst still in their previous employment. We are talking football though, which is a highly emotive game.

P.S. - quick scenario. A mortgage broker attends your house and you agree with the terms of the contract. In fact you sign the contract b/c it's better than what your previous bank could offer. There is a 3 day cooling off period in which you can terminate the contract after signing it though. You inform your previous bank who informs you that not only can they match the offer but will beat it. Your dillema? You have already signed a contract and agreed to terms with another bank. Surely only a low. selfish person would backflip the mortgage broker and look after their own interests?

Not exactly the same thing....

[whiskers3614]

People most annoyed would be the "in Ross we trust" brigade.It was not permitted on this board to question any aspect of his coaching without being labelled a "troll".Agree that his results were reasonable considering the list at his disposal, BUT there were some huge blunders along the way that supporters would not even question !His exit strategy seems unsavoury, but who knows the ninner workings of the club.In my humble opinion GOOD RIDDANCE!

[samuraisaint]

I'm with you on this one BigCarl. Moods, my contention is not that Lyon couldn't coach, far from it, rather that he didn't know how to mould and develop young players with no experience. In other words he couldn't actually teach them how to play. Lyon did a good job, as I stated.

Better than Thomas, although we were more exciting to watch under Thommo, better than Stan, although the players appeared to be more passionate about playing for the jumper under him, but that was not really my point.

My point is that I was dissapointed at the time that club let these two coaches go after reasonable consecutive seasons because they did not take the ultimate prize. The club could not control Lyon therefore there is an element of fate in the fact that we must change coaches and look to the future.

[joffaboy]

If the Admin and one member of it had acted with integrity instead of what happened Lyon may have stayed.

He was treated very shabbily and backstabbed by a member of their sainted Admin.

Having said that, I think it is good he is gone. Watters looks like a fresh start and is making long term changes.

But Lyons hand was forced. Paul Roos alluded to the reason and all you Admin apologists would have very red faces if and when the truth about the duplicity comes out.

[matrix]

spill it

[defacto]

If the Admin and one member of it had acted with integrity instead of what happened Lyon may have stayed.

He was treated very shabbily and backstabbed by a member of their sainted Admin.

Having said that, I think it is good he is gone. Watters looks like a fresh start and is making long term changes.

But Lyons hand was forced. Paul Roos alluded to the reason and all you Admin apologists would have very red faces if and when the truth about the duplicity comes out.

what was the truth?

[Eastern]

I have zero problems with what he did.....I am sure his manager did..

Football is a business.....he got a better offer put to him and accepted....simple

So did Ball

So did Walsh

So did Lockett

So did Hall

I dont blame any of them....and for the majority, they have made the correct decision professionally and would NOT regret it....infact be glad they did it

If we want to keep them we need to be more convincing in reasons why they should stay (renumeration, opportunity, resources...etc..)

as lyon said "it took freo 12 hrs to do what StK couldnt get done in 6 mths"

Ball, Walsh, Lockett Hall etc DID NOT ACCEPT THE St KILDA OFFER LESS THAN THREE HOURS BEFORE ACCEPTING OTHER OFFERS. That is the difference.

Lyon might be a very good coach. I don't believe he is of very good character !!

[maverick]

There was nothing wrong with enforcing the get out clause, it was the devious way in which he did it. Negotiating behind his manager and St Kilda's back without their knowledge while they thought that they were coming to an agreement between all parties was a low and dirty act which in the end resulted in a complete and utter waste of time. Why didn't Lyon have the guts to come out and front all parties saying that he'd had enough?
It really shows the true character of the guy - a selfish cold blooded individual. He'll always be chasing the impossible dream, never to be fulfilled.

So Lyon should have announced he had the job at freo before Harvey had been told he'd been sacked.

Any decent person would have entered into 3rd party negotiations after telling their boss they were walking from their contract. What do you bloody think?

To put it straight he was bloody deceitful and dishonest.

What? Deceitful and dishonest to who? Harvey's contract with Freo has nothing to do with Lyon. That's his problem.

So you would tell your current boss that you were going for a job interview with someone else? I don't know anyone who would do that in the real world.

Deceitful to his manager and the St Kilda FC as he made it known that he had accepted the terms and conditions of the new contract that was put forward to him. I really don't care what anyone you know would do.

The fact of the matter is Lyon is an arsehole. See the post above

Yeah I read your post. You've used a lot of emotive adjectives to describe Lyon basically b/c you are bitter that he left. I highly doubt you would describe the millions of other people that move blissfully from one job to another every day around the world in all sorts of different circumstances. Most of them being interviewed whilst still in their previous employment. We are talking football though, which is a highly emotive game.

P.S. - quick scenario. A mortgage broker attends your house and you agree with the terms of the contract. In fact you sign the contract b/c it's better than what your previous bank could offer. There is a 3 day cooling off period in which you can terminate the contract after signing it though. You inform your previous bank who informs you that not only can they match the offer but will beat it. Your dillema? You have already signed a contract and agreed to terms with another bank. Surely only a low. selfish person would backflip the mortgage broker and look after their own interests?

Completely different.
If you commit to an employer current or new then that should be it.
Only a lack of integrity changes that.
That is business.
The rest is all supposition.

[joffaboy]

If the Admin and one member of it had acted with integrity instead of what happened Lyon may have stayed.

He was treated very shabbily and backstabbed by a member of their sainted Admin.

Having said that, I think it is good he is gone. Watters looks like a fresh start and is making long term changes.

But Lyons hand was forced. Paul Roos alluded to the reason and all you Admin apologists would have very red faces if and when the truth about the duplicity comes out.

what was the truth?

THE TRUTH????

YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH.

[BigMart]

an accusation like that is easy to make.....you have given it absolutely NO substance...

And I believe that probably happened....and I definitely am not an admin apologist....I think we have plenty on incompetant staff...

[joffaboy]

an accusation like that is easy to make.....you have given it absolutely NO substance...

And I believe that probably happened....and I definitely am not an admin apologist....I think we have plenty on incompetant staff...

Well maybe when it all comes to fruition i will start a thread to big note my posts and stroke my ego and show i am really cool and am in the know.

I can then sit back and gloat at my own awesomeness.