Surf Report: Are sharks circling Poor Jackson?

[Dr Spaceman]

Many of us are still reeling from the loss of Tommy Walsh to the Sydney Swans. A lot of the resentment comes from the history of them "pinching" our players including the legendary Tony Lockett, Craig O'Brien and Barry Hall. Now Tommy!

The circumstances surrounding Tommy's abduction should serve as a strong warning to the club. IMO, it could happen again if we're not careful.

TW was a project player and no doubt there has been a lot of time and development wasted on him for no return. Well folks, we have another one. Jackson Ferguson. He's not Irish. Worse; he's from Sydney! Like Tommy we've invested in Jackson, this time through the NSW Scholarship program and through our rookie list.

Many, including myself, have a high opinion of this kid, who is both quick and tall. It's unlikely he'll be promoted to the senior list this year, mainly due to the large slab of footy he missed in his first year. However if he comes on as expected in 2012 he'll certainly attract the interest of the northern raiders. Do we offer him a contract mid year and have him put it on hold like Tommy? Do we then see the Swans open their bottomless money bag and make him an unmatchable offer?

They lured Tommy with cash, opportunities and an Irish friendly lifestyle. With Jackson it would be cash, opportunities and a return to family and friends.

We need to be very careful not to lose another project player to these scavengers. We have learned a very valuable lesson over the last few months culminating with the events of 1:00am Monday afternoon.  We need to be proactive to ensure these events are not repeated in 12 months time.

Now of course of all this is surmised on the basis that JF is good enough to become senior player and doesn't drift into the wilderness ala Blake McGrath and Khan Haretuku.

But if he does become a senior player and we can hold onto him, then the whole sorry Tom Walsh experiment may in fact finally show a dividend.

[Junction Oval]

Good Post Doc. The Club needs to get its act together ..... NOW, before it's too late.

[BelfastSaint]

Plus there is now also another team waiting for the "return home" factor from NSW players .. and they will have even more money than the Swans ...

[thejiggingsaint]

The club (apparently) offered Walsh a three year deal with a spot in round one. MONEY talked in the end. I'm not altogether sure that I buy the "abduction" scenario Doc. If Jon Ralph is to be believed Walsh was offered decent terms...for someone who has not stepped foot on an AFL oval, if He chose to "walk"..then my response is to say "keep walking if you don't want to stay"

[thejiggingsaint]

Junction Oval, don't stress pal! I think you'll find the club IS "getting it's act together" I prefer to focus on the two exciting prospects we picked up last week (and who can play immediately) rather than get upset at someone who leaves for more money, in the face of getting a regular spot in our squad 12 months from now we may just be happy at the way events have transpired

[Saint Mik]

If they are good enough they will be re signed for the CORRECT amount.

Let em go if others are willing to pay over the odds.

Its like the Luke Ball case, you can only offer what you can but in the end if they dont want to stay then whats the use of them being on the list and if they strike a deal with another club during the time of trying re sign them then the Saints can do nothing.

I'm sick of hearing that we as a club have lost players, you cant keep them if they dont want to stay.

Good luck to Tommy, more money and probably more oppurtunity for him, remember he could of walked if he wanted to at least we got something for him in return.

[Dr Spaceman]

The club (apparently) offered Walsh a three year deal with a spot in round one. MONEY talked in the end. I'm not altogether sure that I buy the "abduction" scenario Doc. If Jon Ralph is to be believed Walsh was offered decent terms...for someone who has not stepped foot on an AFL oval, if He chose to "walk"..then my response is to say "keep walking if you don't want to stay"

The club says they tried to contract him mid year. You would have to think he hesitated due to his concerns about Ross giving him a game. Remember at that stage most assumed Ross was going to keep coaching us indefinitely.

I think this hesitation gave Sydney the chance to swoop and by the time we apppointed a new coach and produced a new contract the damage had been done. Tommy had already convinced himself his future was in Sydney.

All supposition of course.

I suppose the lesson is not to simply assume that because a kid is a Rookie that he'll automatically jump at a senior contract, or that no other clubs are sniffing around.

[BelfastSaint]

Its also true that Sydney have a huge Irish fan base and Tommy Walsh helps to strengthen and maintain that fan base ...
I think Sydneys decision was about more than just Tommys playing ability ..

[thejiggingsaint]

time to wish the guy well, but to focus on the future!!!!

[The OtherThommo]

I'm a bit baffled by some of what I've heard/read in the last few days.

Some have reported Lyon knocking Walsh's prospects (e.g. that he couldn't handle or read the oval ball). Yet, I saw Lyon late in the year (e.g. the defunct OWAAT on One) lauding his prospects as a key forward. Lyon singled him out in response to a general question.

But, he didn't play him, despite having a skipper who was obviously in strife with his knee.

When Longmire was interviewed yesterday and asked about Walsh, he began by saying "we were told" (or words to that effect), as if there was significant third party involvement. He then pulled himself up and began talking as if there wasn't third party input. But, it was a discernible change.

There was something fishy about the whole thing. Who it was that "told" them, I don't know. I do know Lyon left us with little reason to trust him. And, Roos gave him cover, with his nudge, nudge "untenable" crap. Roos still works for Sydney, too.

Very fishy.

[borderbarry]

Dont forget that Leigh Tudor and Peter Berbakov are now Assistant Coaches at Sydney. They would each have been aware of Tommy's ability.

[St Lenny]

The players took pay cuts at the time Luke Ball defected. The salary cap is still not resolved. We will never know if Tommy Walsh would have stayed had he played a senior game or two with us.

It is obvious to me that Watters has came to us knowing that repair work has to be done. Getting on side with the media, fans, change of game plan etc has done alot of damage under Ro$$ and now is the time to make the change. I am confident the board made this part if their requirements in the interview process.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

The club (apparently) offered Walsh a three year deal with a spot in round one. MONEY talked in the end. I'm not altogether sure that I buy the "abduction" scenario Doc. If Jon Ralph is to be believed Walsh was offered decent terms...for someone who has not stepped foot on an AFL oval, if He chose to "walk"..then my response is to say "keep walking if you don't want to stay"

The club says they tried to contract him mid year. You would have to think he hesitated due to his concerns about Ross giving him a game. Remember at that stage most assumed Ross was going to keep coaching us indefinitely.

I think this hesitation gave Sydney the chance to swoop and by the time we apppointed a new coach and produced a new contract the damage had been done.

Exactly. This is the most likely case. The damage was almost certainly done before Ross pissed off, as evidenced by Tommy not signing up when apparently offered a contract mid-year. Taking as long as we did to appoint Watters and giving him just one day to try to stop a horse that had already bolted has proved costly.

[gringo]

I remember some noise about a younger Walsh who was better than Tommy. It was suggested to me that it was a Cloke situation. get the older lummox and it will lure the talented junior too. Maybe sydney wants to create a crash pad for junior Walsh early in case.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Good luck to us getting anyone else promising from Ireland any time in the next few years.

[thejiggingsaint]

No use in dwelling on it now. Walsh decided for himself, and has left without (it seems) a backward glance. he was told by the new coach that he would be elevated to the seniors, offered a 3 year contract, (quite generous if reports are correct) and still decided to walk out. Now, I may be way off the mark here but I can't see just how the club could have done more in the last few weeks to keep him.
Now the guy has gone, lets move on!!!!

[ace]

In the European soccer scene a "required player" is never allowed to come out of contract.
Players are worth more than draft picks in Europe - they are worth millions to their clubs.

How is it that they never come out of contract?

Clubs make PROFESSIONAL assessments of players future careers.
Players who are "required", are not required for one year they are required into the future.
Required players are offered long term contracts.
These contracts never wind down to less than one year to go.
Required players are offered contract extensions before one more year to go occurs.
Fail to re-sign and the player is traded, no ifs, no buts, no sympathy.
The player never comes out of contract and walks for nothing.

How would it work at the Saints.
Idiots who offer multiple year contracts to players who are not going to make it are all sacked.
Those required, get long contracts and must extend at least one trade period before the contract runs out.
Fail to re-sign, the player gets put on the market (with 13 months still on his contract) at trade week, and traded for the best deal.
The club dictates to where.
The player has to take the trade the club makes or stand out of footy for two years.

In the case of Walsh the decision on whether he was required should have been made 15 months ago.
If he was not required then he would be cut then or traded.
If he failed to re-sign an extension, he would have been traded to the best offer LAST year.

But oh no, the wankers at St Kilda could not make a decision, they wanted to wait and see.
That left Walsh's management with the opportunity to also see.
Walsh's managers were then able to say to St Kilda, trade only to Sydney or he does a Ball.

Competent managers make decisons at the time they need to be made, not later when it is convenient and they have every final detail they would like to have.
St Kilda swarms with incompetent management.

[Thinline]

The most appallingly overrated messiah-ed plod of a player ever left for dough having had opportunity promised.

It's as if some of you think he was some kind of golden egg laying goose.

He was a marginally improving reserves plodder who had no natural place in our 22 barring an obscene run of injuries.

Why give such a s***?

[Dr Spaceman]

No use in dwelling on it now. Walsh decided for himself, and has left without (it seems) a backward glance. he was told by the new coach that he would be elevated to the seniors, offered a 3 year contract, (quite generous if reports are correct) and still decided to walk out. Now, I may be way off the mark here but I can't see just how the club could have done more in the last few weeks to keep him.
Now the guy has gone, lets move on!!!!

That's what I'm trying to do jiggster.

I'm just hoping there's not a dozen "Ferguson goes to Sydney" threads in 12 months time.

[plugger66]

My Daughter is good friends with Fergo. If only he would ask he out because there is no way known she would move to Sydney so that would force him to stay. Jack give her a call.

And guys remember we didnt lose the best player to ever come from Sydney and him a Fergo have one thing in common.

[Dr Spaceman]

My Daughter is good friends with Fergo. If only he would ask he out because there is no way known she would move to Sydney so that would force him to stay. Jack give her a call.

And guys remember we didnt lose the best player to ever come from Sydney and him a Fergo have one thing in common.

What's wrong with Fergo's knee?

[plugger66]

My Daughter is good friends with Fergo. If only he would ask he out because there is no way known she would move to Sydney so that would force him to stay. Jack give her a call.

And guys remember we didnt lose the best player to ever come from Sydney and him a Fergo have one thing in common.

What's wrong with Fergo's knee?

They both had shoulder recontructions.

[Dr Spaceman]

My Daughter is good friends with Fergo. If only he would ask he out because there is no way known she would move to Sydney so that would force him to stay. Jack give her a call.

And guys remember we didnt lose the best player to ever come from Sydney and him a Fergo have one thing in common.

What's wrong with Fergo's knee?

They both had shoulder recontructions.

Anyway, how about forking out a bit of the ready so your daughter can have the full beauty makeover (not that I'm suggesting she's not attractive already )

Do it for the team plugger

[plugger66]

My Daughter is good friends with Fergo. If only he would ask he out because there is no way known she would move to Sydney so that would force him to stay. Jack give her a call.

And guys remember we didnt lose the best player to ever come from Sydney and him a Fergo have one thing in common.

What's wrong with Fergo's knee?

They both had shoulder recontructions.

Anyway, how about forking out a bit of the ready so your daughter can have the full beauty makeover (not that I'm suggesting she's not attractive already )

Do it for the team plugger

Looks arent the problem. They are to much like Brother and Sister at the moment.

Anyway her Mum spends a fortune on her. She aint getting any of mine. Ive got better things to spend it on. Myself.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

The most appallingly overrated messiah-ed plod of a player ever left for dough having had opportunity promised.

It's as if some of you think he was some kind of golden egg laying goose.

He was a marginally improving reserves plodder who had no natural place in our 22 barring an obscene run of injuries.

Why give such a s***?

Probably the thing that so many are most pissed off about is not so much the fact that Tommy left, but the fact that yet another who the club seemingly wanted to stay, has walked out the door. Just a couple of weeks after the one we wanted to coach us for the next 4 years left. This sort of s*** is supposed to happen to teams that are a "rabble" and on the bottom of the ladder, or in less than ideal locations. We've just played in 4 finals series in a row, are supposedly aiming to contend again next year and are located in the centre of the Aussie Rules universe, in a brand new facility.
That's why so many of us are pissed off.
It of course doesn't help that the one who we've been looking forward to seeing play for us for over 3 years and who has started to show some very promising signs at VFL level, is the one who walked, after we put 4 years into getting him to this point, leaving us very light on for back-ups at full forward or full back.