Raph

Saints 2012 · Thu 13 Oct 2011 3:55pm

How many best on grounds has Raph had? 0
Gram & Gilbert would have 1/2 dozen each

Pretty clear out of the three who we should keep

jays · Post: # 1161304Post **jays** » Thu 13 Oct 2011 3:58pm

i would trade him in a heart beat

ralphsmith · Thu 13 Oct 2011 4:02pm

Raph Clark is simply not AFL standard.

That lack of awareness is soul destroying for us.

CURLY · Post: # 1161311Post **CURLY** » Thu 13 Oct 2011 4:03pm

When Raph is up and going is very important to us. A more aggresive game plan will suit him far more. If he played at Collingwood he'd be AA.

savatage · Post: # 1161313Post **savatage** » Thu 13 Oct 2011 4:05pm

CURLY wrote:When Raph is up and going is very important to us. A more aggresive game plan will suit him far more. If he played at Collingwood he'd be AA.

So why aren't other clubs (inc) Collingwood throwing themselves at him at the moment??

Most would want an AA capable player at their club wouldn't they?

Saints 2012 · Thu 13 Oct 2011 4:07pm

no way in hell Raph would ever get all australian

savatage · Post: # 1161315Post **savatage** » Thu 13 Oct 2011 4:10pm

Saints 2012 wrote:no way in hell Raph would ever get all australian

Just goes to show how much we can overrate our own players!

fingers · Post: # 1161320Post **fingers** » Thu 13 Oct 2011 4:13pm

MadSaintFan wrote:Thats cool - I'll cop being called a peanut etc. but the simple fact is raphs no good. Hes been on our list for so long now and continually played poorly. The situation is funny because no one else wants him.

Sometimes I wish we could delist posters

CURLY · Post: # 1161324Post **CURLY** » Thu 13 Oct 2011 4:15pm

Saints 2012 wrote:no way in hell Raph would ever get all australian

Raphs problems occur when he hesitates with the ball no one denies that. If he could just run and boot it as far as he can like Harry O and Maxwell do hed never get caught. A stagnate forward line kills attacking defenders. Raphs defensive work overhead is as far more couragous than that of Harry O also.

SainterK · Post: # 1161326Post **SainterK** » Thu 13 Oct 2011 4:16pm

savatage wrote:
CURLY wrote:When Raph is up and going is very important to us. A more aggresive game plan will suit him far more. If he played at Collingwood he'd be AA.
So why aren't other clubs (inc) Collingwood throwing themselves at him at the moment??

Most would want an AA capable player at their club wouldn't they?

Can't fit him in the salary cap.

In all seriousness though, he cops an unfair amount of criticism.

Not sure his position would be much fun when he lifts up his eyes and he probably has all the forwards in his half of the ground.

Saints 2012 · Thu 13 Oct 2011 4:22pm

Iâ€™d put Gram ahead of Ray, Dawson or Raph in our best back 6

Dempster Gwilt Gram
Goddard Fisher Gilbert

Beno88 · Post: # 1161331Post **Beno88** » Thu 13 Oct 2011 4:26pm

The difference between Raph's best and worst is huge, that's not a bad thing if you're always performing near your best, but when you play at your best so infrequently it's not good enough at AFL level.

Raph often shows glimpses of the player everyone wants him to be, but after 6 seasons and plenty of chances (many more than others) he still can't find the high performance consistancy required at AFL level.

You can't question his courage and fitness, and he's done some great things for the Saints, but ultimately he has not made enough of his chances.

Next year has been Raph's breakout year for too long now, it's time move on.

To the top · Thu 13 Oct 2011 5:15pm

Perhaps some of you wizards posting on here may wish to put the cart before the horse.

Simply, because we lack in ruck, lack in the mid-field and rely on one forward (and a 178cm player who is a liabiity in today's game - hence the ball comes out of our red zone quicker than it goes in) we find ourselves camped in the other sides red zone, with players back in support and absolutely no targets forward of the contest.

So we go backwards and get ourselves into more trouble.

Why did 6 of Sydney's free kicks result in goals?

Because the ball was locked into their red zone for the majority of the game - beaten in the ruck, beaten in the mid-field and comprehensively thrashed in attack where Riewoldt and Milne could not get a kick.

And the wonders on here blame a defender for this!!

Look at why the ball was in those areas - and kept coming back into those areas - and then you may get some clue as to who we should be targetting for fault and deficiencies.

To put a comparison, the majority on here are blaming the no 10 and no 11 batsmen for the side collapsing for less than 100.

The ONLY players who really stood up for us in 2011 were certain of our defenders - including Clarke.

Eastern · Post: # 1161364Post **Eastern** » Thu 13 Oct 2011 5:18pm

I see Raph finished 17th in our B&F. It seems that some within the club value his contribution far greater than some on here !!

SaintSimmo · Thu 13 Oct 2011 5:33pm

Eastern wrote:I see Raph finished 17th in our B&F.

That is no great achievement

Eastern · Post: # 1161371Post **Eastern** » Thu 13 Oct 2011 5:35pm

SaintSimmo wrote:
Eastern wrote:I see Raph finished 17th in our B&F.
That is no great achievement

Not the worst on the list either !!

StPeter · Post: # 1161373Post **StPeter** » Thu 13 Oct 2011 5:37pm

I am so tired of the Raph bashers.

Gilbert, Gram and even Goddard at times turn the ball over as much or

more than Raph. He has shown on several occasions this year that he can

be a very good player and I can remember at least one game him being

BOG.

SaintSimmo · Thu 13 Oct 2011 5:39pm

StPeter wrote: Goddard at times turn the ball over as much or

more than Raph.

WHAT THE F**K ARE U ON?

desertsaint · Thu 13 Oct 2011 5:44pm

i think a lot of us jump to raph's defence due to the over the top criticism he draws. the guy has lovely natural skills, but has never properly adapted to the pressure of afl footy. quite a bit different to the flee flowing running & kicking game raph grew up with.
he doesn't have the smarts to think ahead and often takes off and finds himself without any real options. then he either kicks to no one, gives off a hospital pass, or gets caught.
unfortunately not a player you'd trust to perform consistentli in high pressure games. so if we're genuine about a flag, raph isn't up to it.
but yeah - having a laugh about it is poor form imo.

evertonfc · Post: # 1161390Post **evertonfc** » Thu 13 Oct 2011 5:46pm

Eastern wrote:
SaintSimmo wrote:
Eastern wrote:I see Raph finished 17th in our B&F.
That is no great achievement
Not the worst on the list either !!

Least convincing argument I've come across yet?

Bernard Shakey · Thu 13 Oct 2011 5:48pm

SaintSimmo wrote:
Eastern wrote:I see Raph finished 17th in our B&F.
That is no great achievement

Five places and 111 votes ahead of Kosi.

To the top · Thu 13 Oct 2011 6:05pm

Do any of you actually go to games and watch the match being played.

Goddard's disposal this year was very, very ordinary. Very, very ordinary.

In fact, the ONLY class disposer of the pill is Dal Santo - followed by Koschitzke who also rarely misses a target.

Past there they all butcher the pill - including because our game style attracts a crowd and creates pressure.

Fisher, playing as a "spare" defender butchers the pill more often than not when under pressure - including panic kicks out on the full.

Gwilt also puts it out on the full on numerous occasions.

And what about Milne in the mid-field? Dinky, cute little 20 metre kicks going sideways and costing us more goals than he scores (including from the likes of O'Brien or the guy Sydney put on him haring off from him under no pressure).

How many end to end goals come from Milne having an exaggerated opinion of his duck and weave abilities and his cute, short passing abilities?

Some on here only see what they want to see!!

plugger66 · Post: # 1161412Post **plugger66** » Thu 13 Oct 2011 6:07pm

To the top wrote:Do any of you actually go to games and watch the match being played.

Goddard's disposal this year was very, very ordinary. Very, very ordinary.

In fact, the ONLY class disposer of the pill is Dal Santo - followed by Koschitzke who also rarely misses a target.

Past there they all butcher the pill - including because our game style attracts a crowd and creates pressure.

Fisher, playing as a "spare" defender butchers the pill more often than not when under pressure - including panic kicks out on the full.

Gwilt also puts it out on the full on numerous occasions.

And what about Milne in the mid-field? Dinky, cute little 20 metre kicks going sideways and costing us more goals than he scores (including from the likes of O'Brien or the guy Sydney put on him haring off from him under no pressure).

How many end to end goals come from Milne having an exaggerated opinion of his duck and weave abilities and his cute, short passing abilities?

Some on here only see what they want to see!!

Exactly and that line sums you up when talking about Milney. Reallt you lose all credibility the way you talk about him. As you said in your first line. Do you actually watch games because it appears you dont.

loris · Post: # 1161417Post **loris** » Thu 13 Oct 2011 6:14pm

To the top wrote:Do any of you actually go to games and watch the match being played.

Goddard's disposal this year was very, very ordinary. Very, very ordinary.

In fact, the ONLY class disposer of the pill is Dal Santo - followed by Koschitzke who also rarely misses a target.

Past there they all butcher the pill - including because our game style attracts a crowd and creates pressure.

Fisher, playing as a "spare" defender butchers the pill more often than not when under pressure - including panic kicks out on the full.

Gwilt also puts it out on the full on numerous occasions.

And what about Milne in the mid-field? Dinky, cute little 20 metre kicks going sideways and costing us more goals than he scores (including from the likes of O'Brien or the guy Sydney put on him haring off from him under no pressure).

How many end to end goals come from Milne having an exaggerated opinion of his duck and weave abilities and his cute, short passing abilities?

Some on here only see what they want to see!!

And they always forget to mention Goddard's at times very very poor handballing skills. Where the ball practically lands at the bootstraps of his team mate putting them under extreme pressure, happens often from Goddard even when he is under minimal pressure.................

Nah it's easier to pick on a whipping boy like Raph, than someone like Goddard who possess sublime skills when he doesn't have to mind an opponent, but those skills become questionable when he's under the pump, like many a player, not just Raph.

gringo · Post: # 1161421Post **gringo** » Thu 13 Oct 2011 6:19pm

bigcarl wrote:Lyin' tried to turn him into a shutdown defender and put the fear of God into him should be make a mistake.

To his detriment IMO. He's more a winger/half forward and would have played there more under a more daring coach.

He has some deficiencies but a lot do. Only superstars make next to no mistakes, he is in the most obvious spot on the ground when it goes wrong add to that the instruction would have been to hold possession and don't bomb it to no one and he lost his bearings sometimes. He is nowhere near as bad as people on here think. He has had some really good games and the odd moment where he makes you freak but he is worth more to us than most clubs would want to pay for him.