Three gun for Saint Tommy

[borderbarry]

Especially if Sydney get him. The third power forward they would have gained from us.

[thejiggingsaint]

If the guy goes, then he goes, simple as that, life goes on and we move forward. IF we get a decent pick for a bloke yet to play a senior game, I'll find consolation in that. GO SAINTS!!!

[Dr Spaceman]

To meher baba, plugger66 and others who have used, or who intend to use this thread as an opportunity to present the cold, hard, statistical facts in regards to TW, allow me to present the other side.

Saints supporters first became aware of Tommy at the end of 2008 when he was flown over to the club with huge wraps. In the end he returned back to Ireland, but with the prospect he would be back. And indeed he was, 12 months later.

It was the end of 2009 and Saints supporters were still coming to grips with narrowly losing a Grand Final to Geelong after a near perfect season. Bloody Mooney and his arsey kick! We’d given up our first round draft pick for a bloke who left in disgrace without making it to the pre season. We’d lost a former captain and #2 draft pick to the most arrogant club in the competition, without compensation. For all the excitement of the 2009 season, fans were feeling pretty low.

In steps Matthew Drain with his "save the day" announcement. We had signed Tommy Walsh to a rookie contract. Walsh was the best player ever to come out of Ireland, and that was saying something given the deeds of Jim Stynes and Tadhg Kennelly. He was the Irish version of Wayne Carey. He was the equivalent of a first round draft pick, so that allowed us to forget the whole Andrew Lovett deal. And most of us bought into this.

Those who saw Tommy play in his first intra club practice match will tell you how far off this experiment was from bearing fruit. But the big guy knuckled down and as season 2010 rolled on he started to show a fair bit of poise at Sandringham. But no one really expected him to play seniors that year and he didn’t.

2011 and we got to see Tommy in the NAB Cup and he acquitted himself pretty well, though only the real romanticists among us expected to see him line up for the Saints in round 1. Logically it was back to Sandy where once again he showed his improvement and consistently ranked among the better players. Sadly 2011 drew to the end without Walsh playing a game for the Saints.

And so we find ourselves in this position.

Matthew Drain, the guy who sold the dream has departed. Ross Lyon, the guy who stifled the dream has cut and run for the perceived greener pastures of Freo. But we, the supporters, are still here. And many of us still have that dream that MD sold.

You can make arguments about Walsh v Cahill if you like. But Cahill came to us at pick 74 in the draft and without any fanfare. From all reports Tommy has kept his head down and really tried his guts out to make this work. You never see any inappropriate photos of him in the media. He never got involved with that chick from Frankston. He never mixed booze and sleeping pills in NZ like Cahill did.

Tommy’s gone from a bloke who looked like he shouldn’t even be out there on an AFL oval to one of Sandy’s best players. He’s also become, by all reports, one of the Saints better kicks at goal. Quite amazing really. Yet Ross never gave him a game.

For those who say that perhaps he needed to play a month of sensational footy at Sandy first answer me this. Did all the other debutantes meet that criteria? I’ll put my hand up and say I don’t see Sandy play, but a few people do and I consistently read their match reports. It appears that most of these kids were given games on potential rather than performances, but not Tommy. Even though the club was crying out for a another big strong player up forward. Nah, Ross would prefer to play it safe and select Gamble.

So throw all the statistical stuff at us you like. I don’t really care. I bought the Tommy dream and I still have it. And I’ll be really p!ssed if he continues his AFL career elsewhere.

And for those who you who say “if he sooks then we’re better off without himâ€

[Junction Oval]

The Jiggersaint commented :

If the guy goes, then he goes, simple as that, life goes on and we move forward. IF we get a decent pick for a bloke yet to play a senior game, I'll find consolation in that. GO SAINTS!!!

That's a very matter-of-fact statement Jiggs and fair enough, but what I am disappointed at, is "lost opportunity." With Tommy's great form late in the year, there was a clear opportunity to play him (Gold Coast & Adelaide). Supporters were screaming for him to be given an opportunity, but no!

By any standard, our recruiting has been very poor in recent years. In Tommy, we have an "untried" player "with potential," that 3 or more Clubs are said to be chasing - it just pisses me off, that the Club has been so short-sighted, when we are desperate for some good young guys coming through - "especially a good big forward FFS."

I don't generally "back" untried players, but in Tommy, we may just have lost an untried opportunity - I hope not.

[St Loxton]

Here here Dr Spaceman, im holding on to that dream too.

[thejiggingsaint]

A passionate and well articulated post Doc! As I have said, the new coach may just have more vision than his predecessor and the "dream" as you put it, may well come to fruition. On the other hand, Walsh may be seen as a means of obtaining a decent draft pick, which may well net us an even better prospect. Who knows? I'm prepared to see what actually transpires in the coming weeks.

[samoht]

In Ross we blindly trusted !!
At least some of us saw that not giving Walsh a game was wrong and posted our disapproval .. Lynch got 5 games, I'm sure Walsh could have got one game !

We needed to add pace and yet Ross played Lynch 5 times this year ahead of Walsh !!!

Come On !!

[thefatdork]

cheers Dr. Spaceman - very considered and articulate.
I would also be very disappointed if Tommy left - he should have been given a chance late in the season but now we're faced with losing a potentially very good player.
I know that the club will "go on" if we lose him, but it doesn't mean we have to be happy about it.
GO SAINTS!!

[thejiggingsaint]

fair comment fats

[thequarry]

Great post Doc. I've been on the Tommy bandwagon since the start. I'm hoping MC is correct in what he's been saying because I'd love to keep Tommy at the Saints - he's had two years in the system and as you say, he's improved immensely. I remember his first kick in the 2010 Intra-Club match at Moorabbin on the grandstand wing in front of the fans - the roar of laughter? Incredulity? from the crowd was amazing, but look at him now. I really do think he's ready to take the next step, and I really, really do hope it's with the Saints.

[SaintSimmo]

I doubt he will get traded. Just because clubs have asked about him doesn't mean he will get traded, clubs would ask about many players but its just chance that the media has again chosen to pick on the saints as they have s**t all to post so far during trade week so easies thing to do is to pick on the poor old saints. GIVE US A F***ING BREAK!!!

Also why would we trade him anyway? Unless he wants to leave which i hope is not the case. There is no point trading him for salary cap relief as he would not be on nearly as much as some of the other players which we are rumoured to be trading.

[St Ick]

Couldn't agree more Doc, pretty much sums up the whole situation for us all.

[hayes66]

If another club offers a heap of $$$$ for one of our VFL players who has never played an AFL game, then so be it.

There are much more important things to worry about going on at our club ATM.

As someone (plugger66?) has said on here, if Walsh wasn't Irish, who would give a stuff: including the media and the other clubs. Would anyone on here care if another club made an offer for Cahill?

Walsh and Cahill have achieved similar things at AFL level: ie, nothing whatsoever.

Illogical argument. Based on that principle I could argue whats the difference between me and Jaeger O'Meara, none of us have shown anything at AFL level. Walsh is consistently amongst the best players on the ground every week and I would argue that if he wasn't irish or was at another club he wouldve played a game. Cahill is very up and down and goes missing for quarters even games. Walsh might not be any good but what he is showing is promising and it would be wrong if we lost him without knowing. It is wrong that he hasnt played a game. As for "there are much more important things going on at our club" if we are just going to cast these issues to the side then we are failing. People jokingly build the legend that is Tommy Walsh, however he may or may not just be what we need and we should at least keep him, play him and find out. He is a BIG key position player with a booming kick and is taking to the game well, always improving. BIG key posts dont fall off trees, he needs to be tried. If we lost him without knowing whether he wouldve made it, it would be another blight on this club.

[noob]

If he were to be traded what would the best offer be from another club?

[samoht]

If he were to be traded what would the best offer be from another club?

Ross's head on a platter.
As Hayes 66 posted above - we still don't know if we has what it takes and
we should have found out by giving him a couple of games in the AFL.

Lynch had 5 games this year - and we knew after game 3 he may lack pace at AFL level - but we still gave him another 2 games after that.
Walsh doesn't lack pace .. maybe he has what it takes - couldn't he have got 2 of Lynch's 5 games ?

[MC Gusto]

I have it on good authority that he is signed. the article is wrong

[saintlee]

I have it on good authority that he is signed. the article is wrong

I hope your right

[St. Luke]

If we lose him not having played a game,and developement we have put in,will be totally pissed off

Same! That would be a total failure on behalf of the club. So much potential talent - wasted!

[St Ick]

In Ross we blindly trusted !!
At least some of us saw that not giving Walsh a game was wrong and posted our disapproval .. Lynch got 5 games, I'm sure Walsh could have got one game !

We needed to add pace and yet Ross played Lynch 5 times this year ahead of Walsh !!!

Come On !!

Are you forkin serious?

My god I feel for Lynchy if he is weighing up his future and reads this sort of dribble. Like it or not, but away from the romance and the dream we all have about Walsh, Lynch was in the best players for Sandy almost every week this year. Walsh, while he had a good year and improved to the point where he should have gotten games, TL was streets ahead of him on most occasions.

[samoht]

Yes ! I'm always serious and no need to be rude.

The point is was the selection committee and Ross serious about not playing Walsh... giving the guy one go - to find out if he has what it takes at AFL level. The jury is still out .. and we had it in our power to find out by playing the guy.

Everyone has mentioned Lynch's lack of pace by the way - I'm not the first, nor will I be the last.

there's a whole thread on Lynch if you have any doubts about that !

[borderbarry]

MC Gusto said, "I have it on good authority that he is signed. the article is wrong"

If that is correct, why have'nt the club made it public?

[St Ick]

Yes ! I'm always serious and no need to be rude.

The point is was the selection committee and Ross serious about not playing Walsh... giving the guy one go.

Everyone has mentioned Lynch's lack of pace by the way - I'm not the first, nor will I be the last.

there's a whole thread on Lynch if you have any doubts about that !

Not once did I mention anything about Lynch's pace. You changed a 'they should have played Walsh' arguement into a Lynch bashing comment which was uncalled for. Whether Walsh played or not has zilch to do with Lynch or his claims to a spot in our best 22.

[samoht]

St Ick I'm not pointing out something that is not obvious to everyone.
Read the Tom Lynch thread and then apologise to me or have a go at everyone else who has mentioned his lack of pace.

I see giving Lynch 5 games to Walsh 0 games as a bashing too - to Walsh who was totally overlooked !

I'm not bashing Lynch , I'm bashing Ross for persisting with Lynch whilst totally ignoring Walsh. We still don't know if Walsh has what it takes - it's probably a risk for us if we sign him too without seeing if he's okay at AFL level.
But the point is we could have and should have found out !

[St Ick]

St Ick I'm not pointing out something that is not obvious to everyone.
Read the Tom Lynch thread and then apologise to me or have a go at everyone else who has mentioned his lack of pace.

I see giving Lynch 5 games to Walsh 0 games as a bashing too - to Walsh who was totally overlooked !

I'm not bashing Lynch , I'm bashing Ross for persisting with Lynch whilst totally ignoring Walsh.

Aaaaah, where is the banging my head against a brick wall emoticon?? How did Ross persist with Lynch when the only time he played two in a row was when he had 16 possies and kicked two (putting him in our best players) and RL couldn't drop him. His 5th game this year was vs Sydney when he was a late replacement.

I've not mentioned his lack of pace, not once mate, and I'm not having a go at you for his lack of pace, just saying that is a different arguement altogether, we are talking about deserving a spot in the team and when Lynch played he earned his spot. But if you want to speak of pace, the only time he was embarrassed for lack of pace was against Sydney in what was his last game for the year. If a selection was based on that and that alone, Luke Miles would still be on our list, and Rhys Stanley would be a shuein week in week out.

No apologies today mate, not for that anyway...

[PJ]

Good post Doc very passionate. Look at the facts we need another key forward and back and Tommys not going to be on high salary- chances of him being traded are very slim unless someone throws us an absolute gun = not going to happen.