Why Trading Ray would be a mistake

[samoht]

Year Team Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Ag. Brownlow
2011 St Kilda 21 10.5 7.0 17.5 4.3 0.3 0.2 3.4 1.0 1.0 0.9
2010 St Kilda 25 9.2 10.2 19.5 5.7 0.2 0.2 3.9 0 0.5 0.8 0.10
2009 St Kilda 25 11.0 11.2 22.2 5.1 0.2 0.3 4.2 0.1 0.7 0.8 0.23


I'm not sure if the above stats came through properly .. but it may indicate that RL's negative game plan may have progressively taken its toll on Ray.

In 2009 .. Ray averaged 22.2 possessions.
In 2010 .. Ray averaged 19.5 possessions
In 2011 .. Ray averaged 17.5 possessions.

So Ray instead of developing under RL to a 25 possession player would have probably been slipping down further again towards 15 possessions per game under RL had he been our coach in 2012

A new positive coach may have Ray back up to 25 possessions per game, who knows ?

[savatage]

He's a handy player - but it wouldn't be the end of the world if he was traded for a good deal.

His disposal is what stops him from being a gun player...he could be improved with a new coach or he could just continue to be a GOP with the occasional good game thrown in.

If our list gets improved in the way of early draft picks or as a deal for another higher priority type of player, so be it...

[samoht]

Ray played one game this year where he may have had only 19 possessions .. but everything he did was spot on and he was clearly our most effective player that day. I can't remember against which team.
Took important marks and combined very effectively to bring others team mates into the game.

It was like he was saying to RL this is how I can play, if you'd just let me, if you'd let me be myself and just trust me.. and forget your precious game plan.

[savatage]

Ray played one game this year where he may have had only 19 possessions .. but everything he did was spot on and he was clearly our most effective player that day. I can't remember against which team.
Took important marks and combined very effectively to bring others team mates into the game.

It was like he was saying to RL this is how I can play, if you'd just let me, if you'd let me be myself and just trust me.. and forget your precious game plan.

What do you think about his disposal though?

[Sobraz]

I like Ray, think he has all the tools, and would be a very good player in a good, attacking confident team...

He is well ahead of several players IMO, and should not be on the trade table unless the deal is heavily in our favour..

In our top 14 or so players, and well ahead of Jones, Peake, Gram and a few others that are being thrown around IMO...

[samoht]

His kicking needs to improve no doubt.

He can chip the ball accurately like everyone else .. but in his defense any player who takes on the game and is prepared to kick the ball long is bound to miss targets... even Goddard does.

[St Ick]

To lose Ray would be a backward step as we wont get what he is worth on an open market. He still has a number of years left with us. I've always thought he looked injured this year, hence his numbers were down, I wouldn't be suprised if he had been carrying something all year.

His strengths outweigh his weaknesses IMO.

[savatage]

No doubt he's being floated around. I like Ray - but it would hardly be the end of the world if he was off-loaded for the right deal. We'll follow this with interest over the course of the week!

Sometimes this week is a fizzer - I've got a feeling we're in for some surprises this time around.

[MadDogMuir]

I don't know what it was, but he looked half the player this year, with half the confidence and seemed slower and his kicking was poor. We have too many poor kicks in our side. Jason Gram is another one. Neither can play defensively like Jones. Ray seemed to also lose his ability to take a mark. He is good overhead. It is no use if the ball comes back very quickly in the opposite direction. This happens a lot with Gram, Ray and Gilbert (who is too one sided and unfortunately can't seem to turn himself into a forward, which would be ideal)

[noob]

Ray played one game this year where he may have had only 19 possessions .. but everything he did was spot on and he was clearly our most effective player that day. I can't remember against which team.
Took important marks and combined very effectively to bring others team mates into the game.

It was like he was saying to RL this is how I can play, if you'd just let me, if you'd let me be myself and just trust me.. and forget your precious game plan.

Might have been brisbane?

[SaintTom]

Trading Ray would be a mistake because his value to the Saints is far higher than his trade value. I doubt we'd trade him unless it was part of a deal to get a young gun, maybe a deal with both him and Gram or something for a Gunston (somehow)

[Stillwaiting]

I don`t want him traded, he is a valuable player, very good overhead. He would be a loss unless Pelchen can pull of a trade that actually improves on him

[evertonfc]

Good player - not great - but hard to see us getting a player/pick of equivalent value.

Has many years of service left to give and I'm hoping he stays.

[Animal Enclosure]

Keep Faz, lose Gram

[borderbarry]

We have Farren Ray, Jones, Gram, Gilbert, and Polo all of whom only can kick it up in the air. We need to get rid of a couple of them Actually, I think Ray is marginally a better kick than the others.

[SaintTom]

We have Farren Ray, Jones, Gram, Gilbert, and Polo all of whom only can kick it up in the air. We need to get rid of a couple of them Actually, I think Ray is marginally a better kick than the others.

Marginally? He may not be NDS but he's no where near in the category of these other guys. He's a pretty reasonable kick.

[samoht]

Ray stays or I go !

[bergholt]

So Ray instead of developing under RL to a 25 possession player would have probably been slipping down further again towards 15 possessions per game under RL had he been our coach in 2012

A new positive coach may have Ray back up to 25 possessions per game, who knows ?

it's worth remembering that he never averaged more than 19.2 per game at the dogs, and they had a pretty free-wheeling playing style. i like the kid, but maybe he's just not that good?

strikes me as a trier but i couldn't tell you what his best position is. not a goal-kicker, not especially defensive, not great in-and-under. i suppose that makes him a specialist winger? but he's not that quick and his disposal is only ok.

so he's not actually that good at anything. why do we have to keep him again?

[yipper]

One of the best marks for his size in the game, enormous courage to stand his ground. good link player. Skills are ok. Kicks a goal when he gets the chance. Reminds me a lot of David Grant.

[Con Gorozidis]

I agree is a mistake.
the peak age for a player is 23-29.
saints have too few players in the key 21-26 category.

[samoht]

it's worth remembering that he never averaged more than 19.2 per game at the dogs, and they had a pretty free-wheeling playing style. i like the kid, but maybe he's just not that good?

strikes me as a trier but i couldn't tell you what his best position is. not a goal-kicker, not especially defensive, not great in-and-under. i suppose that makes him a specialist winger? but he's not that quick and his disposal is only ok.

so he's not actually that good at anything. why do we have to keep him again?

I wonder how much game time he got with Doggies and let's not forget he was quite young- how many possessions did Hayes get as a 22 y.o ?

Provides run .. a rare commodity at the Saints and a new positive coach may give him license to run and carry.

[skeptic]

I wonder if we should try to utilse him as a HBF... that way we could utilise his strengths whilst masking his weaknesses

Strengths
- Reasonably fast
- Good overhead mark
- Accountable

Weakness
- Getting the ball

Disposal is ok

At least on the backline he can have the ball handed to him and we can utilise his strengths and run

[samoht]

if he can get back to his 2009 form I'll be happy.

Young players usually develop further with experience - Ray went backwards since 2009 and I think RL's negative game style may have had a lot to do with it.

The good thing is we have a few players like Ray who may benefit with a better coach who encourages and develops players - not just game styles.

[SunburySaint]

Keep Faz, lose Gram

+1

[samoht]

-1 ..See my post above.