I fully back the board

[skeptic]

Warning Long post on a done to death topic of which I'd like to express my opinion

After letting this whole RL debacle sink in and listening to the various arguments of who did what when... what was reasonable etc I've formed the opinion that board did the right thing every step of the way and that RL played a deliberate role in manipulating the situation towards the best outcome for him.

Further to that, IMHO they are the right people to lead St.Kilda into the future and have my utmost confidence.

I know this topic has been done to death, but I would like to share my thoughts on the matter:

Around April was when the board and RL's management began looking to... lets say negotiate a new deal.

It is reported that RL around this time, opted to delay talks until the end of the season as suggested here
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/s ... 6122458531

It's a curious move from someone who reported to the media after signing with Freo that Freo did in 72 hours what the Saints couldn't do in 6 months.
He gives off the impression there that he wanted to sign up ASAP

Why would he then delay talks...

We know that around this time in April, the club's performance for the season was not great 1-8 IIRC.

We also know that RL is having financial difficulties.

The conclusion is a pretty obvious one to draw. RL wanted to leverage an offer. After a 1-8 start, he would be viewed as nothing short of a miracle worker if he can get this into another pre-lim/grandfinal after where they've been.
He could pretty much write his own check. Even making a semi final = a reasonably impressive recovery.

This is reflected (my opinion only) by the way he coached in the 2nd half of the season. A number of forumites can't understand why he won't guys like Walsh and Johnson forward in a team where he has identfied KP forwards a weakness.
He was not coaching beyond the immediate future at all. He wanted the most seasoned players he had on the ground so that he could beat the majority of teams we played in the weaker 2nd half of the draw.

Guys like Gilbert, Ray, Jones [to a lesser degree), Gram etc continued to get selected because they're a bit more consistent in what they bring to the table... they can run games out.

Also, slowing down the process also puts the pressure back on the board to up the offer and it allows him to keep his options open at the end of the season from alternative offers.

And so our season goes on. RL commited to the best outcome he can get this season.
Fremantle approach in rd22 and see if he's interested in potentially moving... he names his price, they say they're interested, to keep it above board he says give me an offer at the end of the season

We finish 6th and bow out first week of the finals. RL lets the team know that he's disappointed in the performance because he believes the club could have gone further... IMO he knows he's cooked at the Saints because he doesn't have enough leverage now (he already has an idea of the contract that's on the table and is playing along through his management) OR he knows that the Saints can't make him the type of offer he wants

Where Melbourne come into the equation I'm not sure. Most likely they've been making him big offers the whole time however a) he's never commited to anything until he gets the deal he wants, b) it looks bad to say that he's been negotiating behind everyone's backs this whole time c) their is too much x-factor about them finacially and at board level.

Meanwhile our management, and his management are working towards what he's told us he wants. There's open communication as everybody (except Ross) thinks they're on the same page.

Fremantle show him their offer and he snaps it up. Doesn't even put it to the Saints or his management to make him a counter offer.

He can't because he's delayed talks because he's played the I'm committed to this club and best outcome for the club card and dragged his feet throughout the process and at best hasn't performed in a way to get the contract he wanted. He's painted himself into a corner.

So he gets out

Fremantle have been very sneaky here because they don't want to sack Mark Harvey unless RL jumps on board.
That's why they didn't sack him at the end of the season and they wouldn't have unless they landed a big fish.

The only questions that remain are could the Saints have matched Freo's offer? And wouldthey have wanted to?

I don't see how they could have done anything differently without a certain amount of blind faith and honestly, I'm glad they didn't

RL himself says that the board were 100% supportive of him the whole way through his tenure.

This was purely about money







As far as seaford goes... we have premium facilities = a lot better then not having them which is where we would be now if we weren't there.

Anyone that genuinely believes the club decided to go the road of "well Port Phillip want to talk to us as do Moorabbin but I say to hell with that" is being irrational

thanks for reading

[satchmo]

Fair call.

Especially agree on the Seaford thing. We can bang on about how we should have gone somewhere else, but we didn't, and we are going to be there for a long time now.

Get used to it and make the best of it is the only option now.

[thejiggingsaint]

me TOO! Now, this does NOT mean that I believe the board to be above criticism (far from it) but at times like this we can do without the hysteria of calling for board spills (especially when no alternatives are offered up ) The correct course of action (for me anyway) is to use the proper channels and to question the board at the AGM or an extraordinary meeting. I don't believe in blind loyalty but I also don't believe all the hysterical nonsense being peddled about "wooden spoons to come" "the imminent collapse of the club" etc etc etc
COOL HEADS STRONG NERVE and we will emerge from this episode stronger than EVER!
GO SAINTS!

[barks4eva]

Around April was when the board and RL's management began looking to... lets say negotiate a new deal.

WRONG!

Ross Lyon put an offer to the board in APRIL

Just lazy on your part to one not bother reading or understanding the MANY previous threads that have discussed and revealed this info already!

FOR EXAMPLE

QUOTE NATHAN BURKE

when the request of a four-year $2.6 million unconditional contract was received, the board wanted to consider it carefully.

Yes, we took our time because we've all seen what financial mismanagement and lack of rigour can do to football clubs. It would be irresponsible of the board not to be prudent and if ultimately this is why Ross Lyon left the club, we take responsibility for that, but stand by our process.

We know that around this time in April, the club's performance for the season was not great 1-8 IIRC.

WRONG AGAIN, please KEEP IT REAL


FACT

At the end of April we were ONE WIN ONE DRAW AND TWO LOSSES and a BYE!

One of these losses was when Blake had a brain fade in the last 50 seconds and we lost by one point to Geelong!

I have been told by a reliable source that the offer from Lyon to the board came between round three and five!

We had the bye in round four

So we were actually

ONE DRAW and TWO LOSSES when the offer was made if this information is correct.

If it came later in April then we won our next game!


We were NEVER 1 and 8 or one from 8 at anytime

1 win 1 draw 5 losses after 8 with two losses by 1 point and 3 points!

The conclusion is a pretty obvious one to draw. RL wanted to leverage an offer. After a 1-8 start, he would be viewed as nothing short of a miracle worker if he can get this into another pre-lim/grandfinal after where they've been.

ONE WIN ONE DRAW FIVE LOSSES


NEVER ONE WIN EIGHT LOSSES

He could pretty much write his own check. Even making a semi final = a reasonably impressive recovery.

Cheque would be the word you're looking for!

This is reflected (my opinion only) by the way he coached in the 2nd half of the season. A number of forumites can't understand why he won't guys like Walsh and Johnson forward in a team where he has identfied KP forwards a weakness.
He was not coaching beyond the immediate future at all. He wanted the most seasoned players he had on the ground so that he could beat the majority of teams we played in the weaker 2nd half of the draw.

Guys like Gilbert, Ray, Jones [to a lesser degree), Gram etc continued to get selected because they're a bit more consistent in what they bring to the table... they can run games out.

I have already stated this same position a week ago on here!

It is also my opinion that by round THREE Lyon realised we might have to go backwards to move forwards by playing more kids and wanted security as his current contract had GET OUT CLAUSES!

In April ( during the week of the bye in round four....I believe to be the case) made an offer of four years UNCONDITIONAL to provide him with this security!

When it was not accepted by the board he then chose to coach for the now/short term with tried and trusted performers to attempt to get the highest ladder position possible!

With GET OUT CLAUSES in his contract that the board had inserted giving him no security and realising that a rebuild is required for the long term, he wanted a guarantee and security for the future, but it was not given.

Also, slowing down the process also puts the pressure back on the board to up the offer and it allows him to keep his options open at the end of the season from alternative offers.

QUOTE NATHAN BURKE

when the request of a four-year $2.6 million unconditional contract was received, the board wanted to consider it carefully.

Yes, we took our time because we've all seen what financial mismanagement and lack of rigour can do to football clubs. It would be irresponsible of the board not to be prudent and if ultimately this is why Ross Lyon left the club, we take responsibility for that, but stand by our process.

The board were the ones' who slowed the process, I think you're getting VERY confused!

Also important to mention, but something you overlooked!

The board appoint PELCHEN mid year and give him ultimate authority over Lyon, making Lyon answerable to him.

So after six months the board then initially offered a two year extension with one remaining ( three years total ) with conditions!

Seems like they didn't really want him!

Then when they thought they might lose him!

The board offer four years UNCONDITIONAL which they rejected in April!

It would seem that Ross Lyon initially agreed to this but when a much bigger and better LATE offer came in from Freo he decided to leave!

More money, more years, more authority, more trust, more belief

as opposed to

Less money, less years, less authority, less trust, less belief




Did this really need a whole NEW THREAD??????????

[Dr Spaceman]

Barks, you've been going on about the same thing for decades now.

I remember all those years ago when, under the name of "Barton", you were calling for the Board to be sacked,



Ya gotta move on fella

[stinger]

Warning Long post on a done to death topic of which I'd like to express my opinion

After letting this whole RL debacle sink in and listening to the various arguments of who did what when... what was reasonable etc I've formed the opinion that board did the right thing every step of the way and that RL played a deliberate role in manipulating the situation towards the best outcome for him.

Further to that, IMHO they are the right people to lead St.Kilda into the future and have my utmost confidence.

I know this topic has been done to death, but I would like to share my thoughts on the matter:

Around April was when the board and RL's management began looking to... lets say negotiate a new deal.

It is reported that RL around this time, opted to delay talks until the end of the season as suggested here
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/s ... 6122458531

It's a curious move from someone who reported to the media after signing with Freo that Freo did in 72 hours what the Saints couldn't do in 6 months.
He gives off the impression there that he wanted to sign up ASAP

Why would he then delay talks...

We know that around this time in April, the club's performance for the season was not great 1-8 IIRC.

We also know that RL is having financial difficulties.

The conclusion is a pretty obvious one to draw. RL wanted to leverage an offer. After a 1-8 start, he would be viewed as nothing short of a miracle worker if he can get this into another pre-lim/grandfinal after where they've been.
He could pretty much write his own check. Even making a semi final = a reasonably impressive recovery.

This is reflected (my opinion only) by the way he coached in the 2nd half of the season. A number of forumites can't understand why he won't guys like Walsh and Johnson forward in a team where he has identfied KP forwards a weakness.
He was not coaching beyond the immediate future at all. He wanted the most seasoned players he had on the ground so that he could beat the majority of teams we played in the weaker 2nd half of the draw.

Guys like Gilbert, Ray, Jones [to a lesser degree), Gram etc continued to get selected because they're a bit more consistent in what they bring to the table... they can run games out.

Also, slowing down the process also puts the pressure back on the board to up the offer and it allows him to keep his options open at the end of the season from alternative offers.

And so our season goes on. RL commited to the best outcome he can get this season.
Fremantle approach in rd22 and see if he's interested in potentially moving... he names his price, they say they're interested, to keep it above board he says give me an offer at the end of the season

We finish 6th and bow out first week of the finals. RL lets the team know that he's disappointed in the performance because he believes the club could have gone further... IMO he knows he's cooked at the Saints because he doesn't have enough leverage now (he already has an idea of the contract that's on the table and is playing along through his management) OR he knows that the Saints can't make him the type of offer he wants

Where Melbourne come into the equation I'm not sure. Most likely they've been making him big offers the whole time however a) he's never commited to anything until he gets the deal he wants, b) it looks bad to say that he's been negotiating behind everyone's backs this whole time c) their is too much x-factor about them finacially and at board level.

Meanwhile our management, and his management are working towards what he's told us he wants. There's open communication as everybody (except Ross) thinks they're on the same page.

Fremantle show him their offer and he snaps it up. Doesn't even put it to the Saints or his management to make him a counter offer.

He can't because he's delayed talks because he's played the I'm committed to this club and best outcome for the club card and dragged his feet throughout the process and at best hasn't performed in a way to get the contract he wanted. He's painted himself into a corner.

So he gets out

Fremantle have been very sneaky here because they don't want to sack Mark Harvey unless RL jumps on board.
That's why they didn't sack him at the end of the season and they wouldn't have unless they landed a big fish.

The only questions that remain are could the Saints have matched Freo's offer? And wouldthey have wanted to?

I don't see how they could have done anything differently without a certain amount of blind faith and honestly, I'm glad they didn't

RL himself says that the board were 100% supportive of him the whole way through his tenure.

This was purely about money







As far as seaford goes... we have premium facilities = a lot better then not having them which is where we would be now if we weren't there.

Anyone that genuinely believes the club decided to go the road of "well Port Phillip want to talk to us as do Moorabbin but I say to hell with that" is being irrational

thanks for reading

good read...good sensible post...you are on the money afaic....

[barks4eva]

good read...good sensible post...you are on the money afaic....

And how many FACTS did you choose to ignore?


I suppose you also believe that we were 1-8 at the end of April and the board instigated contract negotiations in April?

[Con Gorozidis]

I am 100 per cent with the op.
I'm not swayed by barks. The board were well within the industry norms to take their time given a contract was in place until end 2012.
Al clarkson - who is a lot better and more succesful coach - was on hold until only 3 months from his contract expiry. So lyon still had 12 to 18 on his. Why the rush????

We now know lyon needed to rush it through to keep creditors at bay. Hardly a board issue.

In any case I don't even think lyon is that great. He was coaching short term with no eye on player and list development.

The board was right to appoint pelchen to address this big hole.

The board was right to not rush into a new contract and were in line with industry standard.

Lyon was out of control wanting that kind of contract so far out.

Lyon was out of control with his refusal and ignoring of playing or developing young talent.

I support the board and the op.

[joffaboy]

good read...good sensible post...you are on the money afaic....

And how many FACTS did you choose to ignore?


I suppose you also believe that we were 1-8 at the end of April and the board instigated contract negotiations in April?

As many as you did in your ROSS DIDN'T DECEIVE US thread you started.

You hypocrite

[joffaboy]

We now know lyon needed to rush it through to keep creditors at bay. Hardly a board issue.

Wanted $750K up front. Went to Freo who forked out 1.5 mill up front

The board was right to not rush into a new contract and were in line with industry standard.

Please dont talk about industry standards. Some people here would not have a clue what youa re talking about

I support the board and the op.

If you were a true supporter of the STKFC you would be wanting stability at this time.

Oh well I suppose some people swallow everything Mike Sheahan and Tim Lane writes on this issue

[Dr Spaceman]

Barks, please explain why everything you write are FACTS

And everything others with a different view are NOT FACTS.

[SainterK]

Forgive my ignorance, but is it normal for the coach to put an offer into the board?

Just asking, because I don't know.

[joffaboy]

Barks, please explain why everything you write are FACTS

And everything others with a different view are NOT FACTS.

Some people dont seem to comprehend that you can have your own opinion, but you can't have your own facts.

Its called being delusional.

[barks4eva]

Have whatever opinion you choose but I am only pointing out some FACTS that the OP got 100% wrong!

Around April was when the board and RL's management began looking to... lets say negotiate a new deal.

WRONG!

Ross Lyon put an offer to the board in APRIL

Just lazy on your part to one not bother reading or understanding the MANY previous threads that have discussed and revealed this info already!

FOR EXAMPLE

QUOTE NATHAN BURKE

when the request of a four-year $2.6 million unconditional contract was received, the board wanted to consider it carefully.

Yes, we took our time because we've all seen what financial mismanagement and lack of rigour can do to football clubs. It would be irresponsible of the board not to be prudent and if ultimately this is why Ross Lyon left the club, we take responsibility for that, but stand by our process.

We know that around this time in April, the club's performance for the season was not great 1-8 IIRC.

WRONG AGAIN, please KEEP IT REAL


FACT

At the end of April we were ONE WIN ONE DRAW AND TWO LOSSES and a BYE!

One of these losses was when Blake had a brain fade in the last 50 seconds and we lost by one point to Geelong!

I have been told by a reliable source that the offer from Lyon to the board came between round three and five!

We had the bye in round four

So we were actually

ONE DRAW and TWO LOSSES when the offer was made if this information is correct.

If it came later in April then we won our next game!


We were NEVER 1 and 8 or one from 8 at anytime

1 win 1 draw 5 losses after 8 with two losses by 1 point and 3 points!

Also, slowing down the process also puts the pressure back on the board to up the offer and it allows him to keep his options open at the end of the season from alternative offers.

QUOTE NATHAN BURKE

when the request of a four-year $2.6 million unconditional contract was received, the board wanted to consider it carefully.

Yes, we took our time because we've all seen what financial mismanagement and lack of rigour can do to football clubs. It would be irresponsible of the board not to be prudent and if ultimately this is why Ross Lyon left the club, we take responsibility for that, but stand by our process.

The board were the ones' who slowed the process, I think you're getting VERY confused!

Also important to mention, but something you overlooked!

The board appoint PELCHEN mid year and give him ultimate authority over Lyon, making Lyon answerable to him.

Everyone if free to choose whatever they want to believe but in this thread I have posted established FACTS and corrected factual errors in the OP!


So after six months the board then initially offered a two year extension with one remaining ( three years total ) with conditions!

Then it would appear, with the prospect of losing Lyon they offer four years UNCONDITIONAL which they rejected in April!

It would seem that Ross Lyon initially agreed to this but when a much bigger and better LATE offer came in from Freo he decided to leave!

More money, more years, more authority, more trust, more belief

as opposed to

Less money, less years, less authority, less trust, less belief

Did this really need a whole NEW THREAD??????????

[BigMart]

I dont back the board......made way too many mistakes...

Disgusted when they dropped tassie

Appointment of Pelchins.....ridiculous

Of course, the coach walking out because of an inability to close an easy deal 10 weeks ago.....dumb

Have little voice in the afl community.....weak presence

I reckon they made the ruling about cousins......overruled ross...dont know that for sure, what i do know...he was given a jumper...had a verbal agreement....then a backflip

[bobmurray]

Appointment of Pelchins.....ridiculous

Impossible to make that call on what we've seen so far


and we only appointed 1 Pelchen

[BallBanger]

good read...good sensible post...you are on the money afaic....

And how many FACTS did you choose to ignore?


I suppose you also believe that we were 1-8 at the end of April and the board instigated contract negotiations in April?

As many as you did in your ROSS DIDN'T DECEIVE US thread you started.

You hypocrite

LOL..joffa calling anyone a hypocrite....

[barks4eva]

Barks, please explain why everything you write are FACTS

And everything others with a different view are NOT FACTS.

Irrespective of whatever opinion you might have either way there are some established facts which are totally wrong in the OP!

I was merely pointing them out!!!!!!!!!!


For example:-

Around April was when the board and RL's management began looking to... lets say negotiate a new deal.

Also, slowing down the process also puts the pressure back on the board to up the offer and it allows him to keep his options open at the end of the season from alternative offers.

QUOTE NATHAN BURKE

when the request of a four-year $2.6 million unconditional contract was received, the board wanted to consider it carefully.

Yes, we took our time because we've all seen what financial mismanagement and lack of rigour can do to football clubs. It would be irresponsible of the board not to be prudent and if ultimately this is why Ross Lyon left the club, we take responsibility for that, but stand by our process.

The quote from Burke makes a nonsense of these two assertions in the OP and proves them to be WRONG!

We know that around this time in April, the club's performance for the season was not great 1-8 IIRC.

After a 1-8 start,

At the end of April we were ONE WIN ONE DRAW AND TWO LOSSES and a BYE!

One of these losses was when Blake had a brain fade in the last 50 seconds and we lost by one point to Geelong!

I have been told by a reliable source that the offer from Lyon to the board came between round three and five!

We had the bye in round four

So we were actually

ONE DRAW and TWO LOSSES when the offer was made if this information is correct.

If it came later in April then we won our next game!


We were NEVER 1 and 8 or one from 8 at anytime

1 win 1 draw 5 losses after 8 with two losses by 1 point and 3 points!

FACT!


Again the OP was factually incorrect!

[Leo.J]

Come on Barks...

The offer Burke is talking about is the return offer Lyon made in response to the clubs first offer.

Get a grip mate

[barks4eva]

Come on Barks...

The offer Burke is talking about is the return offer Lyon made in response to the clubs first offer.

Get a grip mate

Burke is talking about the reasons as to why the board did not agree to Lyon's request in April!

[Verdun66]

On Pelchen.....we have been less than impressive around trade and draft time. The last two seasons we have had (it seems) only RL doing it in the immediate aftermath of losing Grand Finals. Tired, emotional, distracted.....it has been obvious we have done poorly.

So getting a guy in to focus on these things wholly and solely is surely a good thing. And someone extremely experienced. RL embraced it at the time, and seemed to be happy about it. Only surmising by some that he wasn't. Or wasn't happy about the reporting lines. He needed to grow up. Happens all the time, and more evidence of his 'controlling' nature. Was this the untenable thing?

The majority of the issue gets down to money, and his lack of it. Freo giving him all that dough upfront is/was a desperate move. One I'm sure we weren't comfortable about if indeed he asked us for it. RL's emotional state since losing that money must be questioned. And how it in turn affected the Football club. I'd guess he's been pretty fragile and difficult to work with.

All in all, think the board have been ok. Conservative, but rightly so. We haven't got that much money to splash around.

[Con Gorozidis]

I love and support b4e's right to rant.

Just to clarify barks.

Yes or no will suffice. Two quick questions:

Are u saying we should have nailed the lyon deal and given him what he asked for back in april?

Are u saying hiring pelchen was a mistake because it upset lyon and he got his nose out of joint because he wasn't head honcho?

[Leo.J]

Come on Barks...

The offer Burke is talking about is the return offer Lyon made in response to the clubs first offer.

Get a grip mate

Burke is talking about the reasons as to why the board did not agree to Lyon's request in April!

The way I read it was...

The board made him an offer.

Lyon reponded with what Burke is talking about.

Then the board made him a new offer 6 months later.

And the rest is history.

Thats the way I read it.

But anyway it's old news now... RL is not cummin back.

[Dr Spaceman]

Did this really need a whole NEW THREAD???????

So it's okay for you to have your "Sack the Board" threads but not okay for someone to start a "I trust the Board" thread?

Breathtaking 

[Verdun66]

Rant he does, which detracts from his arguments. Actually makes them impossible to read. I never start one of his posts looking forward to it.

And they're never very short!