Barks Was right,,,rossy really was a super coach

[Johnny Member]

Misson and RL were no good because Bally is now good.

Seems to be what this thread is saying

I don't read it that way. To be honest, I think only a complete f****** d**khead would.


I read it that people think Ross Lyon is a great coach and it's a tragedy that the club lost him.
But I think this thread, is maybe suggesting that perhaps he wasn't as great as some seem to remember. And to highlight the point, they've used the Luke Ball situation as an example.

[bobmurray]

Ro$$ Lyin was obviously flawed...

Misson was obviously not the fitness messiah....

All because of Luke Ball....that's the message i end up with here....

here's the thing....they're all GAWN.....

bring on the next chapter

[BigMart]

Apparantly we are allowed to critisise him......now he's gone

One day he can do NO wrong.....the next he made huge mistakes..

Which is it, my fickle friends???

In Ross we Trust

Or

He cost us future success......

[jays]

crap

[Leo.J]

Apparantly we are allowed to critisise him......now he's gone

One day he can do NO wrong.....the next he made huge mistakes..

Which is it, my fickle friends???

In Ross we Trust

Or

He cost us future success......

Can't it be a bit of both...

[BigMart]

Looks like it.....

The irony is....a few weeks ago

The usual suspects would refute ANY critisism of Rosco....and belittle any who dare try.....Accuse them of Ross Haters, GT supporters.....etc

They now lead the chorus of critisism....funny how the wheel turns...
A few jump on bandwagons, some stay true....

For the record, my opinion is that lyon is an elite coach....and had every right to leave...he owed us nothing and he earned that right to accept a better offer through his results which caused him to be head hunted....having said that....he is (or never was) perfect and made some huge mistakes...

Which cost us 2 premierships.....however, he got us there in the first place...

[Leo.J]

Looks like it.....

The irony is....a few weeks ago

The usual suspects would refute ANY critisism of Rosco....and belittle any who dare try.....Accuse them of Ross Haters, GT supporters.....etc

They now lead the chorus of critisism....funny how the wheel turns...
A few jump on bandwagons, some stay true....

For the record, my opinion is that lyon is an elite coach....and had every right to leave...he owed us nothing and he earned that right to accept a better offer through his results which caused him to be head hunted....having said that....he is (or never was) perfect and made some huge mistakes...

Which cost us 2 premierships.....however, he got us there in the first place...

Since when does supporting a footy club involve logic or common sense?

[plugger66]

Looks like it.....

The irony is....a few weeks ago

The usual suspects would refute ANY critisism of Rosco....and belittle any who dare try.....Accuse them of Ross Haters, GT supporters.....etc

They now lead the chorus of critisism....funny how the wheel turns...
A few jump on bandwagons, some stay true....

For the record, my opinion is that lyon is an elite coach....and had every right to leave...he owed us nothing and he earned that right to accept a better offer through his results which caused him to be head hunted....having said that....he is (or never was) perfect and made some huge mistakes...

Which cost us 2 premierships.....however, he got us there in the first place...

He was a great coach but how the hell could you call him elite if you really thought he cost us 2 GF's. I totally disagree he did. He may have made mistakes in and before the game but if we had won the supporters of the other clubs would have said the same. That is very unfair in 2 very close games. Elite and cost us 2 GF's. Explain that.

[Richter]

Misson and RL were no good because Bally is now good.

Seems to be what this thread is saying

I don't read it that way. To be honest, I think only a complete f****** d**khead would.


I read it that people think Ross Lyon is a great coach and it's a tragedy that the club lost him.
But I think this thread, is maybe suggesting that perhaps he wasn't as great as some seem to remember. And to highlight the point, they've used the Luke Ball situation as an example.

Spot on JM. The use of sarcasm to make a point is lost on some. Even on posters who have had over 20,000 sarcastic posts themselves. I suppose that for them the point of posting here is rather to put others down than to talk about the Saints.

The phrase you used to describe such a poster, IMO, is about right.

[plugger66]

Misson and RL were no good because Bally is now good.

Seems to be what this thread is saying

I don't read it that way. To be honest, I think only a complete f****** d**khead would.


I read it that people think Ross Lyon is a great coach and it's a tragedy that the club lost him.
But I think this thread, is maybe suggesting that perhaps he wasn't as great as some seem to remember. And to highlight the point, they've used the Luke Ball situation as an example.

Spot on JM. The use of sarcasm to make a point is lost on some. Even on posters who have had over 20,000 sarcastic posts themselves. I suppose that for them the point of posting here is rather to put others down than to talk about the Saints.

The phrase you used to describe such a poster, IMO, is about right.

I put down posters that post crap. You are on that list. Why didnt you talk about footy instead of puting down a poster. Try precticing what you preach. I know footy isnt a strong suit for you with some of the stuff you have posted but if you do post something at least people who have some footy knowledge can correct you. Look forward to some funny stuff from you. That is when you talk footy.

[BakesFan]

Gotta learn from the past...not dwell on it.

[BigMart]

Some serious pot kettle action tnere plugger......

And is it you who determines what crap is......because last time i looked, you churn out rubbish every other minute....mostly just to antagonise or try to put down posters to make yourself feel superior or all knowing.....most on here just think your annoying, like a mozzie bite...but fun to scratch

For example
Ross Lyon not and elite afl coach
5 seasons
4 prelims
3 grand finals......missed out on two by a poofteenth, with an inferior team on both occasions...and with a bit of luck could be a dual premiership coach...please dont tell me a coach is judged by a poor goal umpiring call, or a split decisiion by milney...
64% win ratio.....highest of any coach in the afl over 50 games
I suppose they are opinions dressed up as fact though...
Here is an opinion
And i believe will be a premiership coach by 2013
But the real fact for me is that he was endorsed as the best by Lenny Hayes (whose opinion i rate a bit higher than yours)

[Richter]

Some fair stats to back up your opinion of Ross being elite Marto. For mine, yet to be proven. He took a good Saints list to very nearly the top of the tree.

For mine, elite=flag at the very least. So he can't lay claim to that title quite yet. May go on to prove it at Freo, where he has for the second time parachuted in to a team on the rise.

[Richter]

I put down posters that post crap. You are on that list.

According to you that would be a pretty long list, eh plugger?

Lol. You really are a nuffie.

[BigMart]

Not always Richter

A coaches job is about getting the best out of his list....On a given year

Premiership is a lot about timing.......and a bit of luck......and yes good management..

A dud coach would find it hard to coach a premiership
But
A great coach can miss out on a premiership

Happened to sheedy in 20 yeats of his career....no premiership

Some examples
Alan Joyce
Was he a diffent coach/person at hawthorn rather than the bulldogs.... A dual premiership coach, with questionable ability and good timing

Chris Scott
Has taken over possibly the best team of the modern era.....if him and his brother swapped.....a big difference, not really imo
One has a midfield of ottens, selwood, bartel, chapman, corey, ling

Paul Roos
Not an injury in the last 9 weeks of 2005...... Grant Thomas.....6 key players injured in the last month of 2005

So, more needs to be considered when looking at a coaches credentials....imo
Only way to truly judge or compare coaches is if we took away all variables
Gave them them the same list, same injuries, same draw....but that cannot happen

[matrix]

couldnt give a shite now

wait
yes i do

shouldve picked judd

who cares?
how long has it been now?????

[BigMart]

Saying all of that

A coach really cannot be considered absolutely successful until he wins the ultimate prize.....as that is what he is employed to achieve....so i take you point....

But I did say 'elite' which can have a different set of measurements

[SainterK]

how long has it been now?????

Will be heading into his 3rd preseason with the Pies in a few weeks.

[Richter]

And I take yours. On many of the measurements that you have stated he certainly is up there as one of the best.

Another area that I wonder about Lyon is his ability to galvanise teams around him. Obviously he did a great job with the team's leaders in Roo, Lenny et al... and in attracting and keeping the likes of Misson....... but what about the assistant coaches? Bomber Thompson, for all his apparent personality faults, kept a number of experienced coaches around him for many years - Hinkley, Sanderson, McCartney... presumably coaching successfully is not a matter of purely one individual... but a whole coaching outfit. Seems to me that Lyon is particularly deficient in this area.

[Con Gorozidis]

He didn't want to play for St Kilda, it's just pointless still wondering about it.

He did not want to play for ross lyon. That is the issue.

It remains highly relevant because there are still several forumites who believe ross was a fantastic coach who could do no wrong.

The evidence suggests he did plenty wrong.

And the result of his tenure is we will need to have a lot of luck and skill to repair the list and replenish ourstocks of players under the age of 25.

[Scollop]

Looks like it.....

The irony is....a few weeks ago

The usual suspects would refute ANY critisism of Rosco....and belittle any who dare try.....Accuse them of Ross Haters, GT supporters.....etc

They now lead the chorus of critisism....funny how the wheel turns...
A few jump on bandwagons, some stay true....

For the record, my opinion is that lyon is an elite coach....and had every right to leave...he owed us nothing and he earned that right to accept a better offer through his results which caused him to be head hunted....having said that....he is (or never was) perfect and made some huge mistakes...

Which cost us 2 premierships.....however, he got us there in the first place...

ALLAN SCOTT: YOU ARE WRONG!!! Apology to Choco for stealing his line. Quality cattle that Lyon had at his disposal was the key and he had the blueprint handed to him.Our champion players made a pact to remain together and it is their efforts and their work ethic and their loyalty that got us there.

I am loyal to those who have bled for this club; our players. Sitting in an office doesn't cut it for me. You need to do more than have a brilliant game plan, you need to be a brilliant judge of character. Super coaches are those that;
1. Have coached a premiership and delivered silverware in the trophy cabinet.
2. Have brought into our club quality individuals that will be the future leaders of St Kilda.

Since when had Lyon done any of the above?

[meher baba]

He didn't want to play for St Kilda, it's just pointless still wondering about it.

He did not want to play for ross lyon. That is the issue.

It remains highly relevant because there are still several forumites who believe ross was a fantastic coach who could do no wrong.

Are there? They seem to be extremely quiet at the moment.

Like BigMart, I find it a slightly weird feeling to have gone from being howled down whenever I made even a mild criticism of Lyon to now find myself defending his coaching ability against near-universal criticism.

Oh well, I learnt from the aftermath of Luke Ball's departure that a lot of posters on here become highly irrational about people they feel have "betrayed" the club.

I blame Irish blood.

[matrix]

how long has it been now?????

Will be heading into his 3rd preseason with the Pies in a few weeks.

and theres still 3 or 4 threads related to him!

its unreal
we need a mega luke ball sooky la la about him leaving thread up the top as a sticky it seems.

[SainterK]

He didn't want to play for St Kilda, it's just pointless still wondering about it.

He did not want to play for ross lyon. That is the issue.

It remains highly relevant because there are still several forumites who believe ross was a fantastic coach who could do no wrong.

Are there? They seem to be extremely quiet at the moment.

Like BigMart, I find it a slightly weird feeling to have gone from being howled down whenever I made even a mild criticism of Lyon to now find myself defending his coaching ability against near-universal criticism.

Oh well, I learnt from the aftermath of Luke Ball's departure that a lot of posters on here become highly irrational about people they feel have "betrayed" the club.

I blame Irish blood.

I think he was a fantastic coach?

Just didn't like how he left, and myself now wondering what motive caused him after the bye, to go back to his core players.

[Joffa Burns]

Not always Richter

A coaches job is about getting the best out of his list....On a given year

Premiership is a lot about timing.......and a bit of luck......and yes good management..

A dud coach would find it hard to coach a premiership
But
A great coach can miss out on a premiership

Happened to sheedy in 20 yeats of his career....no premiership

Some examples
Alan Joyce
Was he a diffent coach/person at hawthorn rather than the bulldogs.... A dual premiership coach, with questionable ability and good timing

Chris Scott
Has taken over possibly the best team of the modern era.....if him and his brother swapped.....a big difference, not really imo
One has a midfield of ottens, selwood, bartel, chapman, corey, ling

Paul Roos
Not an injury in the last 9 weeks of 2005...... Grant Thomas.....6 key players injured in the last month of 2005

So, more needs to be considered when looking at a coaches credentials....imo
Only way to truly judge or compare coaches is if we took away all variables
Gave them them the same list, same injuries, same draw....but that cannot happen

Agree totally with Big M, I also believe if Ross had the saints from 04 when we had Aaron, Gehrig, Max in their prime + Powell, Black, Penny, Guerra and a younger pre injury Luke Ball & Kossie & aging Harvs we might be sitting here reflecting on 3 or 4 premierships.

Sydney had no injuries in late 2005 but they also had Dave Misson, let's not forget the amount of whinning on here over our soft tissue injuries between 03 - 06.

IMO Ross did an amazing job but coached for the present and did not develop the list for the long term. Maybe it reflects his investment strategy??? Who wasn't excited by the thought of Lovett streaming down the MCG wing in September? There are casualties and LB was one of those, my biggest disappointment there was getting nothing in return.

For what it is worth I know the physio Bucks states extended his career.
Many of you here will know him as he has a practice down at Cranbourne and in at Malvern and still works for Collingwood. He told me that the Collingwood fitness staff were shocked at the lack of flexibility and shape that LB was in when he arrived at the Filth. LB had been run into the ground by the saints in his early years and on arrival at Collingwood the fitness staff were unsure if they could do much to improve Lukes condition.

To their credit and Luke's it certainly appears they have.