ROSS DIDN'T DECEIVE US

[Rosco]

how about we all just have a listen to this for a good laugh?

[Dr Spaceman]

joffaboy it's ok...calm down


I choose to agree with Nick Riewoldt and Brendon Goddard


You choose to agree with Gerard Whateley and Caroline Wilson


We will just agree to disagree then, ok?

So you choose to agree with Nick Riewoldt and Brendon Goddard but not Nathan Burke?

That's interesting.......................

[barks4eva]

joffaboy it's ok...calm down


I choose to agree with Nick Riewoldt and Brendon Goddard


You choose to agree with Gerard Whateley and Caroline Wilson


We will just agree to disagree then, ok?

[Dr Spaceman]

Barks, your post was above mine and now it's below it.

What happened?

Did you SACK the original post only to reinstate it a couple of minutes later?

That looks like the actions of a CLOWN!!!

[barks4eva]

joffaboy it's ok...calm down


I choose to agree with Nick Riewoldt and Brendon Goddard


You choose to agree with Gerard Whateley and Caroline Wilson


We will just agree to disagree then, ok?

So you choose to agree with Nick Riewoldt and Brendon Goddard but not Nathan Burke?

That's interesting.......................

Dr Space brain... can you post the quote where Nathan Burke said " Ross Lyon deceived us"

[degruch]

joffaboy it's ok...calm down


I choose to agree with Nick Riewoldt and Brendon Goddard


You choose to agree with Gerard Whateley and Caroline Wilson


We will just agree to disagree then, ok?

So you choose to agree with Nick Riewoldt and Brendon Goddard but not Nathan Burke?

That's interesting.......................

Dr Space brain... can you post the quote where Nathan Burke said " Ross Lyon deceived us"

"If the reported sums are correct then we congratulate him on making such a deal and pulling it all off so secretly. It's not very often such a deal can be configured in this world without leakage somewhere, so you have to take your hat off".

That was hard. I'm sure Burkey could elaborate more, but in the interests of the club, best to let it slide.

[markp]

It is disappointing that Ross saw our initial offer of a two-year extension as insulting; that certainly wasn't our intention. And as you would expect, when the request of a four-year $2.6 million unconditional contract was received, the board wanted to consider it carefully.

Yes, we took our time because we've all seen what financial mismanagement and lack of rigour can do to football clubs. It would be irresponsible of the board not to be prudent and if ultimately this is why Ross Lyon left the club, we take responsibility for that, but stand by our process.

I agree with Nathan Burke.

[degruch]

It is disappointing that Ross saw our initial offer of a two-year extension as insulting; that certainly wasn't our intention. And as you would expect, when the request of a four-year $2.6 million unconditional contract was received, the board wanted to consider it carefully.

Yes, we took our time because we've all seen what financial mismanagement and lack of rigour can do to football clubs. It would be irresponsible of the board not to be prudent and if ultimately this is why Ross Lyon left the club, we take responsibility for that, but stand by our process.

I agree with Nathan Bourke.

Assuming RL wanted a four-year $2.6 million unconditional contract mid-season, the board must have also been pissing themselves laughing.

[joffaboy]

joffaboy it's ok...calm down


I choose to agree with Nick Riewoldt and Brendon Goddard


You choose to agree with Gerard Whateley and Caroline Wilson


We will just agree to disagree then, ok?

lol the shouting caps king telling others to calm down

I chose to believe the facts, not straw man delusions.

Apparently you are calling Holmsby and one of our greatest players liars.
You are backing up very quickly.

You state Ross didn't deceive us as the OP.

When it has been shown that he completely and utterly deceived the club (the proof is the text that he agreed to terms and would sign the contract 2.5 hours before he resigned) you crap on about him being silly if he didn't take the money Freo offered.

Nobody was arguing that. Everyone said he was entitled to take the money.

But your OP was about him not deceiving us which is patently wrong.

Unless of course you want to call Nathan Burke a liar, and you know more about the damning text message sent to both STKFC board members and Craig Kelly.

What to do either of those?

[Dr Spaceman]

joffaboy it's ok...calm down


I choose to agree with Nick Riewoldt and Brendon Goddard


You choose to agree with Gerard Whateley and Caroline Wilson


We will just agree to disagree then, ok?

So you choose to agree with Nick Riewoldt and Brendon Goddard but not Nathan Burke?

That's interesting.......................

Dr Space brain... can you post the quote where Nathan Burke said " Ross Lyon deceived us"

Thanks for the kooky spin on my nick Barks - what should I call you.

I wasn't specifically talking about the deception as that was the OP 10 pages ago and things usually don't stay on topic that long. I was talking more about everything that has happened in the last week and a bit.

Nonetheless, although NB is probably too nice a bloke to really say what he thinks I think there's clear inference to what some may regard as deceptive behaviour:


"We had been communicating each day and the word was the four-year unconditional deal on increased money was being very well received.
There was even talk of a noon press conference on the Thursday to announce the deal was done.

As we know, the press conference didn't eventuate, however I wasn't worried and knew I would find out why at the monthly board meeting scheduled for the same day.

The meeting, which kicks off at 5.30, began as usual with all directors present. The only anomaly was the absence of CEO Michael Nettlefold, who we were informed was otherwise engaged, so we started on the Finance report.

About 20 minutes into the meeting, Nettlefold entered the Board Room at Linen House Centre. "Gentlemen, I have some news ... Ross has just resigned."





PS: I'll check my PO Box again tonight to see if your "Master Plan for after we sack the Board" has arrived

[markp]

It is disappointing that Ross saw our initial offer of a two-year extension as insulting; that certainly wasn't our intention. And as you would expect, when the request of a four-year $2.6 million unconditional contract was received, the board wanted to consider it carefully.

Yes, we took our time because we've all seen what financial mismanagement and lack of rigour can do to football clubs. It would be irresponsible of the board not to be prudent and if ultimately this is why Ross Lyon left the club, we take responsibility for that, but stand by our process.

I agree with Nathan Bourke.

Assuming RL wanted a four-year $2.6 million unconditional contract mid-season, the board must have also been pissing themselves laughing.

Yup, probably the response.... the boys evidently like a laugh.

"Netters" is prone to a gag so my first thought was "Good one."

And they may as well have laughed in his face, for the benefit their response obviously did the relationship.

[degruch]

Assuming RL wanted a four-year $2.6 million unconditional contract mid-season, the board must have also been pissing themselves laughing.

Yup, probably the response.... the boys evidently like a laugh.

"Netters" is prone to a gag so my first thought was "Good one."

And they may as well have laughed in his face, for the benefit their response obviously did for the relationship.

It's obvious no-one rated RL like RL mid-year...time will tell if RL or the players pulled him through the last half of the 2011 season, thus justifying the money he wanted (let alone got).

[barks4eva]

joffaboy it's ok...calm down


I choose to agree with Nick Riewoldt and Brendon Goddard


You choose to agree with Gerard Whateley and Caroline Wilson


We will just agree to disagree then, ok?

lol the shouting caps king telling others to calm down

I chose to believe the facts, not straw man delusions.

Apparently you are calling Holmsby and one of our greatest players liars.
You are backing up very quickly.

You state Ross didn't deceive us as the OP.

When it has been shown that he completely and utterly deceived the club (the proof is the text that he agreed to terms and would sign the contract 2.5 hours before he resigned) you crap on about him being silly if he didn't take the money Freo offered.

Nobody was arguing that. Everyone said he was entitled to take the money.

But your OP was about him not deceiving us which is patently wrong.

Unless of course you want to call Nathan Burke a liar, and you know more about the damning text message sent to both STKFC board members and Craig Kelly.

What to do either of those?

Quote from Nettlefold!


"There's a high level of respect for Ross and we don't feel deceived."


I think it reasonable to assume when Nettlefold says WE he is talking for ALL members of the board!!!!!!!!!!

The board, Nick Riewoldt and Brendon Goddard have clearly stated they were not deceived!

Gerard Whateley and Caroline Wilson offered their opinions that we were!

If you choose to ignore what the board and two star players have stated publicly on this matter and prefer to share the same opinion as Whateley and Wilson.....you're entitled to that....it's is your prerogative!

[markp]

On the whole we were disappointed. Not in the way everything eventuated but because Ross was a good coach and we wanted him to coach the Saints.
There was genuinely no bitterness or feeling of betrayal among the group.

As a board and executive, we would've liked nothing more than for Ross to commit long term.

All he sought was $650k p/a over 4 years with no get out clause.

They blew it.

While some suggested we were a bit too magnanimous, the fact is anger would've been manufactured

Glad they're cool with it, though.

For the first time ever, our team has completed four consecutive finals campaigns, and there is no reason why it shouldn't achieve a fifth.

*Fingers crossed*

Finding a new coach is not a chore; in fact it is quite exciting.

The boys are enjoying this, at least.

[SaintPav]

Assuming RL wanted a four-year $2.6 million unconditional contract mid-season, the board must have also been pissing themselves laughing.

Yup, probably the response.... the boys evidently like a laugh.

"Netters" is prone to a gag so my first thought was "Good one."

And they may as well have laughed in his face, for the benefit their response obviously did for the relationship.

It's obvious no-one rated RL like RL mid-year...time will tell if RL or the players pulled him through the last half of the 2011 season, thus justifying the money he wanted (let alone got).

The board always wanted to sign him up and were talking about it back in April/May and I know this for a fact.

[degruch]

Assuming RL wanted a four-year $2.6 million unconditional contract mid-season, the board must have also been pissing themselves laughing.

Yup, probably the response.... the boys evidently like a laugh.

"Netters" is prone to a gag so my first thought was "Good one."

And they may as well have laughed in his face, for the benefit their response obviously did for the relationship.

It's obvious no-one rated RL like RL mid-year...time will tell if RL or the players pulled him through the last half of the 2011 season, thus justifying the money he wanted (let alone got).

The board always wanted to sign him up and were talking about it back in April/May and I know this for a fact.

But not for the amount RL was asking, full tote odds for a coach that appeared to the world to be struggling.

The Saints were committed to a long term year plan publically, stability, and would have been quite happy to remain with a coach throughout a rebuild I'm quite sure, especially as he was an unproven rebuild coach - just not for the money he wanted in April.

B4E, markp, yourself, all chose to ignore that he was 1.5-8 win-loss when he started attempting to gain a 4 year extension on a 1 year contract at $650k pa...that's big money, and a long time to committ.

Giving him until the end of the year was fair to RL (he obviously showed the club he was worth the money), and prudent by the club (as Nathan Burke explained), but ultimately our downfall in retaining him. However, it's hard to predict what an unpridictible person will do.

[barks4eva]

in April.

B4E, markp, yourself, all chose to ignore that he was 1.5-8 win-loss when he started attempting to gain a 4 year extension on a 1 year contract at $650k pa...that's big money, and a long time to committ.

WRONG

By the end of April we were ONE WIN, ONE DRAW AND TWO LOSSES

one of those losses by ONE POINT when Blake had a brain fade which cost us the game!


And we don't know exactly when Lyon put his offer to the board!


My mail tells me it was early April about round 3!!!!!!!!!

A one point loss to Geelong a draw and maybe one loss!


KEEP IT REAL!

[markp]

B4E, markp, yourself, all chose to ignore that he was 1.5-8 win-loss when he started attempting to gain a 4 year extension on a 1 year contract at $650k pa...that's big money, and a long time to committ.

Not a 4 year extension, a 4 year deal... to a coach who had taken us to consecutive GF's, and effectively to within a kick in both.

I would've thought $650k a year would just be at the higher end of mid-range for an AFL coach these days, and average money for a very good one.

[SaintPav]

just not for the money he wanted in April.

Well we don't know the detail and no one does unless you are privy to the negotiations.

I heard it back in April. I didn't mean that they had an offer to him in April or vice versa.

I also know that the board were well aware of the risk of losing him to a big offer.

[degruch]

in April.

B4E, markp, yourself, all chose to ignore that he was 1.5-8 win-loss when he started attempting to gain a 4 year extension on a 1 year contract at $650k pa...that's big money, and a long time to committ.

WRONG

By the end of April we were ONE WIN, ONE DRAW AND TWO LOSSES

one of those losses by ONE POINT when Blake had a brain fade which cost us the game!


And we don't know exactly when Lyon put his offer to the board!


My mail tells me it was early April about round 3!!!!!!!!!

A one point loss to Geelong a draw and maybe one loss!


KEEP IT REAL!

That's even worse...a 4 year contract extension on what was effectively a contract with 2 years to run, no-one would ever accept that. Everyone knows we had a rebuild coming up, hence the Pelchen appointment, so how could you commit to a 6 year coach at top dollar?

Wins and losses are one thing (you could argue that better coaching and we would have been 40 points up in each of those games), but timing is another...and in this case, timing seems to be everything.

I wonder if the initial contract discussions, which were allegedly taken as an insult, were between Lyon's management and the board, or Lyon and whoever he spoke to at the time...i.e. were these serious negotiations?

[degruch]

B4E, markp, yourself, all chose to ignore that he was 1.5-8 win-loss when he started attempting to gain a 4 year extension on a 1 year contract at $650k pa...that's big money, and a long time to committ.

Not a 4 year extension, a 4 year deal... to a coach who had taken us to consecutive GF's, and effectively to within a kick in both.

I would've thought $650k a year would just be at the higher end of mid-range for an AFL coach these days, and average money for a very good one.

OK, a 4 year deal then - it's still not to be sneezed at. With the club about to announce a 1.5mil loss, $650k pa was probably as much as we could afford. I'm sure the board took into account RL's past achievements, but blind Freddy could see they were not going to be relevant past 2011...we had appointed a list rebuilder in Pelchen and RL would need to, for the first time, become a rebuilder and put aside his win-loss record for the good of the club. He had no past record. There's a lot of risk in this scenario for the club.

[degruch]

just not for the money he wanted in April.

Well we don't know the detail and no one does unless you are privy to the negotiations.

I heard it back in April. I didn't mean that they had an offer to him in April or vice versa.

I also know that the board were well aware of the risk of losing him to a big offer.

Agree, only guesses. Only the day before he left I was telling a mate I didn't think he'd leave as he had un-finished business at St Kilda, and was in a great position to embark on a rebuild with the trust of the club. Besides, he looked like he had more integrity than to jump ship.

So I have been known to be completely and utterly wrong.

The loss to a bigger offer would seem to be a risk the club was prepared to take...and despite his sucessful past, we were about to go into uncharted waters, why would we place the finances of the club in peril over a coach weilding a big financial stick?

I reckon the club were quite aware RL was fielding offers, they just thought they'd beaten them all to it 2:30pm last Thursday.

[SaintPav]

[I reckon the club were quite aware RL was fielding offers, they just thought they'd beaten them all to it 2:30pm last Thursday.

I THINK they believed that he wasn't and I believe Nathan Burke's version of events.

Ross Lyon will have a different version and it might not be wrong it just might be a different version.

[joffaboy]

[Quote from Nettlefold!


"There's a high level of respect for Ross and we don't feel deceived."

And now you BELIEVE Nettlefold.

You really are lost on this one aren't you mate ?

[Old Mate]

just let him argue with himself jb it's quite amusing