Nathan Burke's take on the RL saga

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages to chat Saints Footy and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

User avatar
QuestionOfAccuracy
Club Player
Posts: 610
Joined: Wed 11 Jul 2007 3:00pm
Contact:

Post: # 1148099Post QuestionOfAccuracy »

barks4eva wrote:
FAIR DINKUM UNBELIEVABLE!

What kind of circus are these clowns running?

A brilliant coach who had steered us to consecutive Grand Final appearances and was only asking for $650,000 a year for the next four years with those get out clauses removed to provide him with some level of security!

VERY, VERY reasonable and the board initially refused and preferred to hedge their bets!

Then appoint Pelchen giving him authority over Lyon!

AND then after six months initially only offer a two year extension with CONDITIONS ( GET OUT CLAUSES )

Is ANYONE really stupid enough to wonder why Ross Lyon felt insulted!

FAIR DINKUM

This is one massive screwball exercise in stupidity!

Absolute numbskulls!

Totally pissed off now!
+1

The Club's management totally dropped the ball on this one. It's also at odds with the 'stability' sentiment that Westaway trumpeted on several occasions.


Image
Sainterman
Club Player
Posts: 1497
Joined: Wed 24 Mar 2004 11:45am

Post: # 1148102Post Sainterman »

The Fireman wrote:
Sainterman wrote:
The Fireman wrote:
Sainterman wrote:You guys are really tough on B4E. Whilst he may over do his point I think he still makes a valid one, even if it is the opposite of what most think.

I for one do not like the article in the OP. Shows some glaring problems. $650K? Should have been a done deal in April regardless of where we sat on the ladder.

Anyway...onward and forward hey? Let's hope we have learned and if we ever find oursleves with one of the best coaches in the comp we actually show him some respect...otherwise we might end up where we are now again.
that's the point, does the board jump at any deal offered or do the normal thing and have a think about it.
The best coach in the League ? I'm tipping a flag would help in determining that, either way big call.
Some decisions are no brainers. $650K a year for 4 years for RL after what he had demonstrated to me would have been an easy call to make. Would have provided a good deal financially speaking for the club, stability and shown confidence in the general direction. For it to take over 6 months from the offer, to only end in a panic on the day he left...well not great from where I sit.

If I were RL I'd be wondering how valued my contribution really was.
If you were RL who would you barrack for now? lol a side issue :)
The club is struggling financially..another side issue that would have come into play
I reckon the he'd be barracking for Freo now!

Are we struggling financially now too?

So we couldn't afford the $650K per year but were all of a sudden able to do so on the final day??

Or have we been well managed into our struggling financial position?

Not sure where the good is in all of this.


User avatar
SirDog
Club Player
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon 16 Oct 2006 12:40am
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Contact:

Post: # 1148104Post SirDog »

Brad Hardy on radio - 6PR Sports show about 15 minutes ago here in Perth announced that the St.Kilda unofficially were doing cart wheels when RL left. He stated he has a close source in the club has told him.

I am unsure what to make of it to be honest. Brad Hardy is very pro-Harvey and has made it quiet clear that he detests the actions of the Fremantle Football Club describing their version of events as having more holes in it than swiss cheese.


St.Kilda fan - through and through.
User avatar
The Fireman
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 13329
Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 11:54pm
Has thanked: 680 times
Been thanked: 1966 times

Post: # 1148108Post The Fireman »

Sainterman wrote: Not sure where the good is in all of this.
Hopefully a positive change of direction and a cheaper coach ?


jays
Club Player
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sat 09 Aug 2008 10:58pm
Location: games
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Post: # 1148116Post jays »

this is so true


chook23
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 7394
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 9:31am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 156 times

Post: # 1148123Post chook23 »



saint4life
Moods
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 4947
Joined: Fri 05 Jun 2009 3:05pm
Has thanked: 343 times
Been thanked: 496 times

Post: # 1148155Post Moods »

bobmurray wrote:The only thing the board did wrong was give the snake an out clause...otherwise he's still be the coach for 2012 :roll:
Well that's a contradictary post :?

If he's a snake then the board should be commended for giving him an out clause and we should be glad to see the back of him.

If he's a good coach then they should have signed him up - I don't know, sometime b/w April and August I'd think. How much time did they need to think about it? All Burkey has done is show how inept our committe is I reckon.

Anyway - let's hope they find a coach just as good.


User avatar
bigred
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 11463
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 7:39am
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 609 times

Post: # 1148220Post bigred »

I'm sorry, but after reading that I gotta send one very big f*** YOU to Ross Lyon.


"Now the ball is loose, it gives St. Kilda a rough chance. Black. Good handpass. Voss. Schwarze now, the defender, can run and from a long way".....
User avatar
Devilhead
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 8393
Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 11:56pm
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 1174 times

Post: # 1148242Post Devilhead »

I see a pattern emerging ..... it seems B4E has some sort of weird infinity for the letter R

Rix ... Ross ........... Retarded

:shock:


The Devil makes work for idle hands!!!
User avatar
groupie1
Club Player
Posts: 1275
Joined: Sun 18 Jun 2006 4:21am
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 52 times

Post: # 1148249Post groupie1 »

barks4eva wrote:
kaos theory wrote:The bleating one won't like any words from our board.

How dare they say anything against the Messiah. The Greta One only speaks the truth, whereas the board, including Burke are evil low-life scum that cannot be trusted.

Quickly B4E, get some holy water!, Make the cross across your chest 3 times, and repeat after me:

"Oh lord Lyon, please forgive me for transgressing and reading the words of the Devil. I shall administer 40 lashes on my sinning body tonight as repentance to you oh great Lyon!"
Funny stuff!


What about you actually deal with the FACTS and what Burke said!!!!!!!!


Do you not find that concerning?


Ross Lyon wanted to coach us for $650,000 a year for four years with no get out clauses to provide him with some level of security!

This is very reasonable for a coach generally regarded as one of the best in the industry!

The club had a real opportunity for once in it's pathetic history to break the mould and back the guy IN and make him the ten year coach that Westaway made noises about!

But they refused!!!!!!!!!!

Then went one step further and appointed Pelchen giving him authority over Lyon

AND then six months later offer a TWO YEAR extension with conditions

before eventually realising they might lose him and up the offer to four years without conditions which Lyon originally sought

Too little too late and when a club who truly valued him offered almost FIVE MILLION MORE DOLLARS with an extra year

you do the maths!


According to most on here all of a sudden Lyon is now a lowlife, scum of the earth, lying prick for leaving St kilda!


KEEP IT REAL!
I disagree with the premise that what RL asked for is reasonable. The money may be reasonable, but the unconditionality of a FOUR YEAR contract, in these circumstances below, was unreasonable, and it was reasonable for the board to consider it carefully:

- Charlie Gardiner, Ryan Gamble, and co suggest RL is not always on song when rehashing fringe players from other clubs
- Andrew Lovett was a f****** disaster
- We have generally, most agree, not drafted well over the past 6-7 years; RL was at the helm for the majority of that time
- RL did not sell the club well, which points to the bottom line
- We may trend up or down or the same, but all agree the playing list is at some transitional point, and RL is NOT a proven coach for a team in such a position. In fact, one could argue he has a poor record of bringing young kids in and getting them right for AFL football. Given that, appointing him for 4 years, unconditionally, could have been a very costly mistake.
- There is an argument saying our game plan has been mastered and surpassed and that the immediate future is going to require a re-emphasis on basic ball skills; again, RL would not appear to measure up all that well on that count.
- RL showed faith in poor footballers, let's be honest. Too much faith. And we have slipped. A change is needed and are we really sue RL is the guy to deliver it?
- One might argue RL did not allow the team to play to its own internal strengths; and that if he had we may have met with ultimate success
- 'Bomb it long to Reiwoldt', one could argue, cost us the GF against Geelong.


There are a whole lot of arguments that are valid and that could be mounted that a 4-year deal was not a good deal for the club, and that, by not having to enter into one, the club dodged a bullet.


Gordon Fode couldda been Plugga
User avatar
Schillaci
Club Player
Posts: 1353
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008 7:00pm
Location: Auckland
Been thanked: 12 times

Post: # 1148252Post Schillaci »

The club by taking time to think about Ross' 4 years @ $650k was sensible IMO. Massive decision. Looking at 3 GFs one could easily think it was a "No Brainer" especially as someone on the outside looking in. If Ross had been signed for 4 more years earlier in the year (when we were struggling at the lower rungs of the ladder) then more than a few people would have wondered if it was the time to lock him away. The Board has done what it should by weighing everything up and not making any hasty decisions.
I am looking forward to the announcement of our new coach, getting a fit Lenny and Roo back on the park and having another crack at it next year.


User avatar
Ross who?
Club Player
Posts: 533
Joined: Mon 19 Sep 2011 12:24pm
Location: Moorabbin

Post: # 1148286Post Ross who? »

Ok, Devils advocate!

Saints give RL 4 years back mid 2011
We get to end of 2012.
We fall short again!
RL hasn't played the kids again.
A couple of players retire, let's say Lenny and Milne. Remaining Stars are another year older.
Rnd 15,2013. Saints sit 13th on ladder, kids are in now but have no experience! RL game plan has had the holes picked in it and has no plan B.
Second half of 2013, Saints sack RL.
SAINTS PAY OUT RL FOR REMAINING 2+ YRS OF 4 YR CONTRACT COSTING AROUND $1.3 M+

More players retire at the end of 2013 and RL has not given any real game time to any youngsters. We haven't got anyone decent from a trade, etc. because our cap is at 100% and can't afford to. We are left in a HUGE hole!



Hypothetically speaking here, so don't start jumping up and down everyone.

This is why the board were correct in not GIFTING a 4 year contract to RL.

After being at one club after 5 years you need to have a good hard look at giving a long contract to a coach. Especially when there doesn't seem to be any real sign of change in game plan.
Before some of you say that he DID play kids this year, I ask how many games were each given? How long did the "Youth experiment" last for?
The kids were gone as quick as they came in!


Blake Acres fan club VIP
User avatar
MC Gusto
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 6084
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 8:29am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 372 times

Post: # 1148290Post MC Gusto »

Burkey is a fair dinkum legend

Cool leveled helmutted head on him

Steering the ship in the right direction

Lucky we have him and not numskulls like b4e in charge of this club

Barks say a bad word about burkey and you will feel my wrath

Fkn legend burkey


#1 Ryder fan
User avatar
Joffa 5
Club Player
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri 10 Oct 2008 12:24pm
Location: Brisbane

Post: # 1148293Post Joffa 5 »

Is everyone forgetting the fact Nixon was Ross' manager? So during that sh*tstorm, there was obviously no negotiations taking place. Then it appears there was a second change of management sometime after that. So this coupled with the fact Ross still had another year to run on his current contract, why would the board feel a hasty decision needed to be made? They could safely assume they could do the negotiations at seasons end IMO.


User avatar
St. Luke
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 5268
Joined: Wed 17 Mar 2004 12:34pm
Location: Hiding at Telstra Dome!

Post: # 1148294Post St. Luke »

barks4eva wrote:
It is disappointing that Ross saw our initial offer of a two-year extension as insulting; that certainly wasn't our intention. And as you would expect, when the request of a four-year $2.6 million unconditional contract was received, the board wanted to consider it carefully.

Yes, we took our time because we've all seen what financial mismanagement and lack of rigour can do to football clubs. It would be irresponsible of the board not to be prudent and if ultimately this is why Ross Lyon left the club, we take responsibility for that, but stand by our process.
FAIR DINKUM UNBELIEVABLE!

What kind of circus are these clowns running?

A brilliant coach who had steered us to consecutive Grand Final appearances and was only asking for $650,000 a year for the next four years with those get out clauses removed to provide him with some level of security!

VERY, VERY reasonable and the board initially refused and preferred to hedge their bets!

Then appoint Pelchen giving him authority over Lyon!

AND then after six months initially only offer a two year extension with CONDITIONS ( GET OUT CLAUSES )

Is ANYONE really stupid enough to wonder why Ross Lyon felt insulted!

FAIR DINKUM

This is one massive screwball exercise in stupidity!

Absolute numbskulls!

Totally pissed off now!
You are a deadset flog. Give it a rest.


When they created LENNY HAYES (in the shadow of Harvs) they forgot to break the mold (again)- hence the Supremely Incredible Jack Steven!!
spert
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 9151
Joined: Wed 29 Jun 2005 10:39pm
Location: A distant beach
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 438 times

Post: # 1148297Post spert »

Yep- it's new era time.. in all the years I have been following footy, the people with the biggest grins are those whose teams have won the premiership, not those whose teams won a lot of games, or got to the finals a lot, or played in losing grand finals. We need to all unite as supporters, and get behind the club and new coach and aim for a premiership, not just another year where we get close. Lyon had three chances, and brother, three strikes and you're out!


gringo
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 12421
Joined: Tue 24 Mar 2009 11:05pm
Location: St Kilda
Has thanked: 296 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Post: # 1148376Post gringo »

Is Barks 4 eva Tony Abbott? Just make him CEO so he shuts the f*** up. We will move back to moorabbin and play in a heritage strip if he just stops!


Leo.J
SS Life Member
Posts: 3127
Joined: Sun 27 Mar 2005 8:29pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 72 times

Post: # 1148464Post Leo.J »

barks4eva wrote:...A brilliant coach..
IMO not brilliant.

No flags = good... not brilliant.

And imo again, under him we played the most bruttaly boring footy I've ever seen - parts of 2009 omitted.

Don't get me wrong Ross has coached us to our 2nd most successful era, and I enjoyed it, but purely because we we're winning.

Ultimate success is premiership.

Just Success, which Ross achieved, can be measured in a few ways... and I'm not sure how sucessful he was apart from his win loss ratio.


Leo.J
SS Life Member
Posts: 3127
Joined: Sun 27 Mar 2005 8:29pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 72 times

Post: # 1148552Post Leo.J »

QuestionOfAccuracy wrote: +1

The Club's management totally dropped the ball on this one. It's also at odds with the 'stability' sentiment that Westaway trumpeted on several occasions.
So you don't believe Burkey?


User avatar
Cairnsman
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 7377
Joined: Thu 16 Jun 2005 10:38pm
Location: Everywhere
Has thanked: 189 times
Been thanked: 276 times

Post: # 1148592Post Cairnsman »

Can I just clear up a massive and huuuuuge misconception. Ross Lyon is not one of the best coaches in the industry. He fell short of the desired goal. Three times. The best coaches in the industry are those that have actually coached a premiership team.


Leo.J
SS Life Member
Posts: 3127
Joined: Sun 27 Mar 2005 8:29pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 72 times

Post: # 1148608Post Leo.J »

Leo.J wrote:
barks4eva wrote:...A brilliant coach..
IMO not brilliant.

No flags = good... not brilliant.

And imo again, under him we played the most bruttaly boring footy I've ever seen - parts of 2009 omitted.

Don't get me wrong Ross has coached us to our 2nd most successful era, and I enjoyed it, but purely because we we're winning.

Ultimate success is premiership.

Just Success, which Ross achieved, can be measured in a few ways... and I'm not sure how sucessful he was apart from his win loss ratio.
Cairnsman wrote:Can I just clear up a massive and huuuuuge misconception. Ross Lyon is not one of the best coaches in the industry. He fell short of the desired goal. Three times. The best coaches in the industry are those that have actually coached a premiership team.
We agree!


Post Reply