Saints List Assessment...

[WinnersOnly]

Inside Midfielders Age Skills
Armitage, David 23 Good
Polo, Dean 25 Below Average
Steven, Jack 21 Average
Jones, Clinton 27 Below Average
Ledger, Tom 19 Good

Outside Midfielders
Cripps, Jamie 19 Good
Crocker, Sam 19 Good
Peake, Brett 28 Good
Smith, Alistair (?) 21 Average
Ray, Farren 25 Average
Andreoli, Warrick ® 19 Average

Utility Midfielders
Goddard, Brendon 26 Excellent
Dal Santo, Nick 27 Excellent
Hayes, Lenny 31 Excellent
Montagna, Leigh 27 Excellent

Ruckman
McEvoy, Ben 22 Good
Stanley, Rhys 21 Average
Koschitzke, Justin 28 Good

Key Forwards
Riewoldt, Nick 28 Average
Cahill, Paul (?) 21 Good
Johnson, Will 21 Good
Walsh, Tommy ® 23 Average

Key Defenders
Dawson, Zac 25 Average
Archer, Daniel 20 Good
Fisher, Sam 29 Excellent
Ferguson, Jackson ® 19 Average
Simpkin, Tom 21 Average

Medium Forwards
Gamble, Ryan 23 Average
Siposs, Arryn 19 Good
Heyne, Nicholas (?) 21 Average

Small Forwards
Milne, Stephen 31 Excellent
Schneider, Adam 27 Excellent
Curren, Thomas ® 19 Average

Medium Defenders
Blake, Jason 30 Average
Clarke, Raphael 25 Average
Dempster, Sean 27 Average
Gilbert, Sam 25 Below Average
Lynch, Tom 21 Average
Winmar, Nicholas 20 Average
Gwilt, James 25 Excellent

Small Defenders
Gram, Jason 27 Below Average
Geary, Jarryn 23 Average

Skills are our biggest list shortcoming – whether it be kicking at goal, kicking in general play, clearance work or ruck taps we struggle.

Without Hayes we didn’t have one break away midfielder who could hit a target. We need players who can win the contested ball and break away with speed/strength and then hit a target.

We have a team of excellent marks but too many who can’t kick.

Obviously we have too many medium defenders with poor skills and need to trade or delist to fill other gaps.

Do we think Walsh, Johnson or Cahill are going to make it in a key forward position? I think I will back Walsh to do the job and draft medium goal kicking forwards.

Delisted:
Michael Gardiner (retired)
Steve Baker
Andrew McQualter
Robert Eddy ®

The trades will affect which way we go but I would hazard to guess that we will also delist (may be redrafted or rookie listed) –
Nicholas Heynes
Alistair Smith
Paul Cahill

List Numbers:

If the club trade out for instance they will promote several rookies eg Walsh & Fergusson. Senior List = 34

Trade Out:
Suggested trades to improve our team skill levels - Gilbert, Clarke, Gram, Jones & Ray for whatever is available.

Gilbert & Gram GWS = Late 1st Round Draft Selection & 17 y/o
Clarke Adelaide = 3rd or 4th Round Selection
Ray & Jones Fremantle = Griffin & 2nd Round Draft choice.

Trade In:
Jonathon Griffin & 2nd Round Draft selection
Late 1st Round Draft Selection & 17 y/o
3rd or 4th Round Selection

On-trade:
?Key Forward or Medium forwards …
I know the club is not likely to turn over that many players from the list this year, but I think now is the time to be bold with our trading.

[plugger66]

Lost interest very early when you had Steven as average and Armo, Cripps and Croker as good. What are you smoking man?

Sorry decided to read further and then spewed up when you had Rooy as average. Stop using.

Then just about did myself in when you actually thought Gilbert and Gram would get a 17 year old and a first round pick . Look you went to a lot of trouble writing that but really it is fanciful stuff.

[borderbarry]

Doesnt make sense to me either.

[WinnersOnly]

P66 gees you are an objectional prick! In the years you have been on here you have not had one independent thought yourself - you just live to critcise others.

If you read the thing the reference was relating to their skill level...Steven is another who is a poor field kick !

[plugger66]

If you read the thing the reference was relating to their skill level...Steven is another who is a poor filed kick !

Sorry but I still disagree on their skills as well. Stick by the trading stuff though. We wouldnt even get a 17 year old for both of them let alone a first round pick. And we dont need Griffen either. We need a ruckman who can play forward. He cant.

[WinnersOnly]

If you read the thing the reference was relating to their skill level...Steven is another who is a poor filed kick !

Sorry but I still disagree on their skills as well. Stick by the trading stuff though. We wouldnt even get a 17 year old for both of them let alone a first round pick. And we dont need Griffen either. We need a ruckman who can play forward. He cant.

The trade stuff was just a wish list - you never know what GWS will offer given the lack of percieved depth in the draft.

The pick up a 17 y/o doesn't necessarily mean he would be a 1st rounder next year.

We need a backup ruckman for McEvoy - we have Kosi and Stanley who can play the forward 2nd ruck role.

[mad saint guy]

Johnson, Will 21 Good - Maybe just average
Walsh, Tommy ® 23 Average - A very good kick
Siposs, Arryn 19 Good - Probably the second best kick at the club
Heyne, Nicholas (?) 21 Average - Poor
Lynch, Tom 21 Average - Good
Winmar, Nicholas 20 Average - Good, skills and height are about all he has

Ray & Jones Fremantle = Griffin & 2nd Round Draft choice. - Not a hope in hell. I really doubt we'd negotiate with Fremantle anyway

I just have to pull you up on some point in here, I don't think it's a bad post but some of the ratings are off. I did enjoy seeing plugger go about his holier than thou criticism business without understanding what the post was about though.

[plugger66]

Johnson, Will 21 Good - Maybe just average
Walsh, Tommy ® 23 Average - A very good kick
Siposs, Arryn 19 Good - Probably the second best kick at the club
Heyne, Nicholas (?) 21 Average - Poor
Lynch, Tom 21 Average - Good
Winmar, Nicholas 20 Average - Good, skills and height are about all he has

Ray & Jones Fremantle = Griffin & 2nd Round Draft choice. - Not a hope in hell. I really doubt we'd negotiate with Fremantle anyway

I just have to pull you up on some point in here, I don't think it's a bad post but some of the ratings are off. I did enjoy seeing plugger go about his holier than thou criticism business without understanding what the post was about though.

Yep i did and said sorry. Pity you cant when you post some of your stuff.

[Dr Spaceman]

Well most of us simply don't see enough of these blokes or have the necessary expertise to be able to offer indisputable assessments.

I'm happy enough to view all opinions.

Keep posting List Assessors

[BigMart]

That was some sort of apology....very sincere indeed.....

List assessment fair.....trades....very wishful.

Is the griffen from ricmond or freo??

[plugger66]

I might do what other poster does and dont quote. Who the hell is Griffen from Richmond?

[BigMart]

Sorry but i do think you f***ed up.....

Sorry....

[plugger66]

Does anyone know Griffin from Richmond? Anyone?

[Spinner]

P66 gees you are an objectional prick! In the years you have been on here you have not had one independent thought yourself - you just live to critcise others.

If you read the thing the reference was relating to their skill level...Steven is another who is a poor field kick !

List Assessment - Poor.

[BigMart]

Sorry, Benjamin griffiths.....the Richmond Forward

I must apologise....

[saintly]

lyin did keep saying our skills were poor!!!

[fingers]

Applaud the effort.

[bergsone]

Well done for having a go,dont be put of by some

[bobmurray]

Another hang out for the look at me element

write it and they will come.......

[PJ]

Our kicking is crap

Culprits

Jonesy, Gram, Gilbert, Steven, Polo, Raph, Geary, Fisher, Ray, Peake???, Blakey, Roo (in front of goal)

How do you win games of AFL with this level of disposal inefficiency?

[Dr Spaceman]

Our kicking is crap

Culprits

Jonesy, Gram, Gilbert, Steven, Polo, Raph, Geary, Fisher, Ray, Peake???, Blakey, Roo (in front of goal)

How do you win games of AFL with this level of disposal inefficiency?

Dunno.

Ask that Freo dude

[groupie1]

Well most of us simply don't see enough of these blokes or have the necessary expertise to be able to offer indisputable assessments.

I'm happy enough to view all opinions.

Keep posting List Assessors

That was an absolutely great post. The divisions of personnel, ratings of skills, and the resultant trade positions to trade out poor skills and trade in draft picks (presumably focusing on skill level). It's an excellent approach to trading; the gradual easing up of average skill level; in a way that can be balanced across positional planes.

I reject Jack Steven has average disposal.

That is a Robert Walls truism, for mine, I see him butcher it a bit, but i also see him use the ball beautifully.

Apart from that, great post. Submit it to the club. They may have different approaches (such as trading for certain needs, positions), and this one is very much the Hawthorn model.

Good werk.

[groupie1]

Y'all, our skills have been bad way back in 2009. Nobody seemed worried about it then. It didn't matter then coz of the system; in 2010 it did cause problems, and ultimately a premiership; skill differential Pies vs us was enormous.

Now everyone wants to suddenly talk about this.

I remember pointing out this theory before last year's finals series 'I hope our poor skills don't finally catch up with us.' and I got shot down like a Texan Bush Twin.

And another thing, Raphael Clarke has excellent disposal 50% of the time, average the other 50%. Doesn't that say two things: a/ on average we'd say he has average disposal, and if half his disposals are excellent, surely there's an answer as to how to fix his others. Peake massively improved his kicking skills by not kicking medium length. He kicks long and short, and he hits targets. No medium 35 passes. Just a strategic change and he's solved the problem.

[St Ick]

I don't think you can base it just on disposal but moreso importance to the team.

- CJ isn't a terrible kick all of the time, he has a terrible kicking action, but apart from a lean couple of months at the end of the year he actually pops up and kicks goals and hits targets a fair bit of the time - he is not in the side though for his sillky skills. His tagging work means he is one of the more important players on our list and it would be a disaster to lose him and Baker in the same year.

- Jack Steven has great skills, he too dropped off as the year went on skills wise but considering it was his first full season and he basically replaced Lenny - I think we should cut some slack for the kid.

- Peake's skills would have to be average, but he brings another different dimension to us through his pace.

- Roo average? Harsh call, but I suppose you could argue his kicking for goal is average. Thats why I think he will serve us better up the field but considering injuries he had, who knows how he will bounce back.

- Walsh and Winmar are meant to have great skills.

- Zac is a pretty good kick I would have thought, just needs confidence.

- Gwilt excellent? Its like when a bloke dies he becomes a legend. It seems the same thing happens when he is injured. He is a good player, but I wouldn't exactly put him in the elite category.

[Old Mate]

For skills Gwilt is 'excellent.' Along with Dal Santo and Goddard he is our best user by foot of the ball.

Riewoldts kicking for goal isn't average, it's woeful.