to get us a flag was, in my opinion correct.
We had a good core of players, he had a gameplan that required role players.
He recruited those players for his gameplan. he topped up and therefore our younger players were of lesser quality.
How many here really questioned this strategy when we made successive GF's and nearly got a flag?
For the shape of the list when lyon turned up, and to what he could do, I think it was the right move.
We all could see he was aiming for the flag full on, and that comes with a price, that being hard bodied mature players at the expense of the young prospect.
I supported this strategy because I wanted to see us win a flag. It was a big risk and it didn't pay off. If you have any knowledge of football, you woukld have known it would eventually come at a cost.
The most dissapointing thing about the whole saga is that I thought Lyon had the honesty and integrity to rebuild what he had sacrificed for the chance at the flag.
I wrote yesterday that he had the credits in the bank to deserve the chance to rebuild the list he sacrificed so get that flag for himself, the players, the club, and the long suffering supporter.
It seems that many of us overrated Lyons character and ethics. Here is a bloke given a chance at the big time, with a pretty good list, given the trust of the supporters to top up for that chance of glory to suddenly just pull the pin, breaking trusts.
Lyon goes to a club that has had the list built for him. To me it sounds parasitical and shows a lack of courage and integrity. Just like at the Saints, Lyon doesn't want to do the hard yards, but just take the glory.
Heard a piece from Sam Fisher where Lyon said that he told the playing group that he was there for 2012 and because Ross was a "man of his word" that he would take that as the truth.
Well Sam and the rest of the list have been played for fools. Sold the dream by Lyon then sold out.
Yes Lyon is a great coach, he will probably take the Dockers to a flag, but to me and thousands of others, including I am sure the players he looked in the eye and lied to, he is an ordinary character with little honour and even less integrity
/RANT
Lyons strategy
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
Lyons strategy
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
I have never really thought about RL in any way character wise but a player once told me he is the hardest man he had ever known. He would do anything to achieve a goal and expected the players to do the same. It now looks like his goal is to win a flag at whatever club he is at. At least the players may now have some fun during the day instead of being under unbelievable pressure. Unless of course MM gets the job.
Pretty sure everyone would move to a heap of more money and better working conditions to excel.
Move on.
Lets see what happens next!
Lyon took the club to a position they could have won two flags.
On the day(s) things didnt fall into place and the playing list is declining.
Hes a coach ... he is competitive.. he weighs up his opportunities and decides.
Im not sure how many of us wouldnt have done the same thing.
He isnt a Saints man...
Fitzroy >Carlton >Sydney>StKilda >Freo.
Move on.
Lets see what happens next!
Lyon took the club to a position they could have won two flags.
On the day(s) things didnt fall into place and the playing list is declining.
Hes a coach ... he is competitive.. he weighs up his opportunities and decides.
Im not sure how many of us wouldnt have done the same thing.
He isnt a Saints man...
Fitzroy >Carlton >Sydney>StKilda >Freo.
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matrix
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pretty sure??
well wrong buddy
people could offer me 10 million compared to one and id take the one and stay
loyalty is everything
greed f****** isnt
one million is enough to live on ffs
10 million would just show pure f****** greed
not everyone would take the money
so lets clear that up right now
rob harvey was offered ludicrous money from teams like carlton in the day
he showed loyalty, because money doesnt buy everything
well wrong buddy
people could offer me 10 million compared to one and id take the one and stay
loyalty is everything
greed f****** isnt
one million is enough to live on ffs
10 million would just show pure f****** greed
not everyone would take the money
so lets clear that up right now
rob harvey was offered ludicrous money from teams like carlton in the day
he showed loyalty, because money doesnt buy everything
Got nothing to do with the money.St Igmata wrote:Pretty sure everyone would move to a heap of more money and better working conditions to excel.
Move on.
Lets see what happens next!
Lyon took the club to a position they could have won two flags.
On the day(s) things didnt fall into place and the playing list is declining.
Hes a coach ... he is competitive.. he weighs up his opportunities and decides.
Im not sure how many of us wouldnt have done the same thing.
He isnt a Saints man...
Fitzroy >Carlton >Sydney>StKilda >Freo.
Its the way he lied to the player face to face. it is the way he has been doing business with Freo behind everyones back in a duplicitous manner, while we were still in the finals race.
Can you hnestly say after four years, Lyon has left the list in a better shape than he found it?
It is apparent to me that he has burnt the list and the club for his own ends and couldn't give a flying fk.
Fair enough, his call. But dont piss on my back and tell me its raining. The man is of average character in my opinion and has proven it with the way he went about this decision.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
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St DAC
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Surely that's the responsibility of any coach at any club?plugger66 wrote:It now looks like his goal is to win a flag at whatever club he is at.
Let's not lose sight of the fact that players, coaches and other footy personnel move clubs regularly. It's not the old days anymore ... club loyalty doesn't fit in today's footy landscape. And it's not a one way street either, clubs are pretty quick to cut a player or coach if they deem it necessary. Small wonder then that is becoming the normal way of business for the footy industry.
Lyon's move is just a more extreme example of this attitude.
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matrix
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bulls***
it now looks like his goal is to chase money and do it the easiest way
wanker f****** tossbag greedy prick!!
it now looks like his goal is to chase money and do it the easiest way
wanker f****** tossbag greedy prick!!
Last edited by matrix on Fri 16 Sep 2011 9:33am, edited 1 time in total.
Get over it!joffaboy wrote:Got nothing to do with the money.St Igmata wrote:Pretty sure everyone would move to a heap of more money and better working conditions to excel.
Move on.
Lets see what happens next!
Lyon took the club to a position they could have won two flags.
On the day(s) things didnt fall into place and the playing list is declining.
Hes a coach ... he is competitive.. he weighs up his opportunities and decides.
Im not sure how many of us wouldnt have done the same thing.
He isnt a Saints man...
Fitzroy >Carlton >Sydney>StKilda >Freo.
Its the way he lied to the player face to face. it is the way he has been doing business with Freo behind everyones back in a duplicitous manner, while we were still in the finals race.
Can you hnestly say after four years, Lyon has left the list in a better shape than he found it?
It is apparent to me that he has burnt the list and the club for his own ends and couldn't give a flying fk.
Fair enough, his call. But dont piss on my back and tell me its raining. The man is of average character in my opinion and has proven it with the way he went about this decision.
His job is to win flags not to be your girlfriend.
He took the club in a position to win two flags and the players didnt do it.
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tweedaletomanning
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Then Shouldn't you put his Face next to malthouse on your sig?joffaboy wrote:Its the way he lied to the player face to face. it is the way he has been doing business with Freo behind everyones back in a duplicitous manner, while we were still in the finals race.St Igmata wrote:Pretty sure everyone would move to a heap of more money and better working conditions to excel.
Move on.
Lets see what happens next!
Lyon took the club to a position they could have won two flags.
On the day(s) things didnt fall into place and the playing list is declining.
Hes a coach ... he is competitive.. he weighs up his opportunities and decides.
Im not sure how many of us wouldnt have done the same thing.
He isnt a Saints man...
Fitzroy >Carlton >Sydney>StKilda >Freo.
Can you hnestly say after four years, Lyon has left the list in a better shape than he found it?
It is apparent to me that he has burnt the list and the club for his own ends and couldn't give a flying fk.
Fair enough, his call. But dont piss on my back and tell me its raining. The man is of average character in my opinion and has proven it with the way he went about this decision.
Last edited by tweedaletomanning on Fri 16 Sep 2011 9:35am, edited 1 time in total.
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SaintPav
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Re: Lyons strategy
joffaboy wrote:to get us a flag was, in my opinion correct.
We had a good core of players, he had a gameplan that required role players.
He recruited those players for his gameplan. he topped up and therefore our younger players were of lesser quality.
How many here really questioned this strategy when we made successive GF's and nearly got a flag?
For the shape of the list when lyon turned up, and to what he could do, I think it was the right move.
We all could see he was aiming for the flag full on, and that comes with a price, that being hard bodied mature players at the expense of the young prospect.
I supported this strategy because I wanted to see us win a flag. It was a big risk and it didn't pay off. If you have any knowledge of football, you woukld have known it would eventually come at a cost.
The most dissapointing thing about the whole saga is that I thought Lyon had the honesty and integrity to rebuild what he had sacrificed for the chance at the flag.
I wrote yesterday that he had the credits in the bank to deserve the chance to rebuild the list he sacrificed so get that flag for himself, the players, the club, and the long suffering supporter.
It seems that many of us overrated Lyons character and ethics. Here is a bloke given a chance at the big time, with a pretty good list, given the trust of the supporters to top up for that chance of glory to suddenly just pull the pin, breaking trusts.
Lyon goes to a club that has had the list built for him. To me it sounds parasitical and shows a lack of courage and integrity. Just like at the Saints, Lyon doesn't want to do the hard yards, but just take the glory.
Heard a piece from Sam Fisher where Lyon said that he told the playing group that he was there for 2012 and because Ross was a "man of his word" that he would take that as the truth.
Well Sam and the rest of the list have been played for fools. Sold the dream by Lyon then sold out.
Yes Lyon is a great coach, he will probably take the Dockers to a flag, but to me and thousands of others, including I am sure the players he looked in the eye and lied to, he is an ordinary character with little honour and even less integrity
/RANT
Everyone has a price. Maybe he told the players that before any massive offer was made so pehaps he wasn't lying at the time?
His doesn't seem interested in rebuilding or developing lists and wants to play finals year in year out. While I was wrapped that he looked like he was going to stay, I was in two minds about him taking us through some pain.
Last edited by SaintPav on Fri 16 Sep 2011 9:35am, edited 1 time in total.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
Totally agree, got nothing to do with loyalty.St DAC wrote:Surely that's the responsibility of any coach at any club?plugger66 wrote:It now looks like his goal is to win a flag at whatever club he is at.
Let's not lose sight of the fact that players, coaches and other footy personnel move clubs regularly. It's not the old days anymore ... club loyalty doesn't fit in today's footy landscape. And it's not a one way street either, clubs are pretty quick to cut a player or coach if they deem it necessary. Small wonder then that is becoming the normal way of business for the footy industry.
Lyon's move is just a more extreme example of this attitude.
Got nothing to do really with the decision, I mean it is a good list and the money is great.
It has to do with the so called character of Lyon who has traded on being up front and honest.
Seems like those have been in short supply with him of late.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
His list is same but older as when he found it.
The fact is.
If the ball didnt bounce weird.
OR
Milne and Schneider were not showboating... he may have had delivered 2 flags.
Would you be bitching about the list with 2 flags?
The dream is over.
It's just time to start again.
Painful as it is, sometimes in life you have to let go and pick yourself up.
The fact is.
If the ball didnt bounce weird.
OR
Milne and Schneider were not showboating... he may have had delivered 2 flags.
Would you be bitching about the list with 2 flags?
The dream is over.
It's just time to start again.
Painful as it is, sometimes in life you have to let go and pick yourself up.
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BAM! (shhhh)
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Hope the money's good.
Reality is that for Lyon, it's a job, it's a career, and that's the prism through which things like morality and character are viewed when making these decisions.
However, I can't help but recall that 18 months into his tenure, when Lyon was coaching a side which had gone from 3 years as a contender to outsider to even make the finals, the club came out and said they wanted him to be a 10 year coach.
Hope the money's good.
Reality is that for Lyon, it's a job, it's a career, and that's the prism through which things like morality and character are viewed when making these decisions.
However, I can't help but recall that 18 months into his tenure, when Lyon was coaching a side which had gone from 3 years as a contender to outsider to even make the finals, the club came out and said they wanted him to be a 10 year coach.
Hope the money's good.
"Everything comes to he who hustles while he waits"
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wally
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I think he's done a Terry Wallace,done his best with what he had,couldn't see where the improvement could come from and moved on.The difference was TW opened his mouth before the deal was done,public noise got Roos the job at Sydney.Didn't Freo admit years ago to "keeping in contact" with Heath Black through the season then deciding he was homesick-dog act.
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St DAC
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I don't particularly like the way it was done, but what I like and $2.50 won't buy you a cup of coffee. I really can't see any other way they could have engineered this move given Mark Harvey was still contracted and had to be shafted.joffaboy wrote:It has to do with the so called character of Lyon who has traded on being up front and honest.
It's not the way I like things done, but I suspect until the footy industry matures to the point that personnel moving clubs is treated as a matter-of-fact process rather than a loyalty process we should start getting used to it.
I must admit I'm disappointed in Lyon, thought he had more class than that.
Mate I dont understand that at all. I really couldn't care less about a coach, I support the football club.St Igmata wrote:Get over it!
His job is to win flags not to be your girlfriend.
Yes thats true. And as a Saints supporter and not a coach supporter, I now look at the what has been left at the stategy of Lyon to win a flag.St Igmata wrote:He took the club in a position to win two flags and the players didnt do it.
I dont think you quite understand the OP.
I was a supporter of the strategy, and knew it would eventually cost us.
Maybe thats why I was so depressed after last years drawn GF because I knew our chance, our real chance had gone for years.
Probably naive, but I thought RL would have the integrity to rebuild. My opinion with his move to Freo is that he is a parasite, feeding off the work of others.
Oh well he is gone, and our football club will continue. Both you and I will support the club, not a coach, or a player or anybody transient who comes or goes.
We are the constant, and we will continue to support our club.
cheers.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
Yup agree with most of that.St Igmata wrote:His list is same but older as when he found it.
The fact is.
If the ball didnt bounce weird.
OR
Milne and Schneider were not showboating... he may have had delivered 2 flags.
Would you be bitching about the list with 2 flags?
The dream is over.
It's just time to start again.
Painful as it is, sometimes in life you have to let go and pick yourself up.
Dont know about showboating, and even one flag would have done me
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
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Legendary
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Interesting comments joffaboy.
Some talk this morning that Ross' financial position was not great - GT intimated that Ross had suffered very badly during the GFC, and was concerned about securing the future of his family financially.
In that context it may indeed have been the extra $ that tipped him over the line with Fremantle, particularly when it appears St Kilda would not or could not offer any more money.
Some talk this morning that Ross' financial position was not great - GT intimated that Ross had suffered very badly during the GFC, and was concerned about securing the future of his family financially.
In that context it may indeed have been the extra $ that tipped him over the line with Fremantle, particularly when it appears St Kilda would not or could not offer any more money.
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Saints43
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If the coach is in financial difficulties then he should just borrow a million from the president. It's worked before. It would work again.Legendary wrote:Some talk this morning that Ross' financial position was not great - GT intimated that Ross had suffered very badly during the GFC, and was concerned about securing the future of his family financially.
Strategy?
I read this elsewhere yesterday, and it helped me understand his motive.
He knows the overly defensive game plan has expired.
He already trying to coach another style of football this year but the Saints list couldn't execute it, didn't have the personnel and weren't capable (mainly because of foot skills)
So he has found a list that can execute it.
Expect Freo to shift Pavlich into the forward line as a key forward, a quick play on game style, surging the ball forward, however with guys like Fyfe and Hill kicking inside 50.
I read this elsewhere yesterday, and it helped me understand his motive.
He knows the overly defensive game plan has expired.
He already trying to coach another style of football this year but the Saints list couldn't execute it, didn't have the personnel and weren't capable (mainly because of foot skills)
So he has found a list that can execute it.
Expect Freo to shift Pavlich into the forward line as a key forward, a quick play on game style, surging the ball forward, however with guys like Fyfe and Hill kicking inside 50.
yeah, really smart thinking there k, i reckon you might be right.SainterK wrote:He already trying to coach another style of football this year but the Saints list couldn't execute it, didn't have the personnel and weren't capable (mainly because of foot skills)
So he has found a list that can execute it.