If Lyon is fair dinkum then the following players need to go

[jays]

hope he is

[Scollop]

Plugger; Just gettn it off my chest. I was dissapointed that he didn'y try more youngsters last year and it happened again this year...no more excuses

Lyon came in as the new coach 2007 and was ruthless, dropping Dal and Milney for not going hard enough or not following team rules...what happened after that...he's gone soft on the establicshed players and he's neglected the youth.

[joffaboy]

.he's gone soft on the establicshed players and he's neglected the youth.

Total and absolute crap.

Absolute garbage.

You have absolutely no idea

[shmic_s]

He's gone soft on the establicshed players and he's neglected the youth.

Siposs, Cripps, Ledger, Lynch, Steven, Smith, Archer, Johnson, Winmar, Simkin

Just a small selection of youth that should've got a game this year.
Oh hang on....

[The Sainter]

Hey Joffaboy, you said Scollop's article was crap Please tell us all in hell's name who our new players were on Saturday??? Polo was the only one and he was picked up from another club.
Someone said Archer as one of our new players, what a joke, one game and then dropped, Yes he played some young ones and a few got injuries but most were dropped. South had 5 players playing their first final game against us, what great experience for them. Lyon does not believe in giving youth much of a go, but hey Ross did you notice we had only 3 goals at half time?
At least young players would run faster and have better kicking skills than at least so many of our ordinary players who never seem to be dropped. Look how Steven has developed this year with regular games.

[SaintPav]

Hey Joffaboy, you said Scollop's article was crap Please tell us all in hell's name who our new players were on Saturday??? Polo was the only one and he was picked up from another club.
Someone said Archer as one of our new players, what a joke, one game and then dropped, Yes he played some young ones and a few got injuries but most were dropped. South had 5 players playing their first final game against us, what great experience for them. Lyon does not believe in giving youth much of a go, but hey Ross did you notice we had only 3 goals at half time?
At least young players would run faster and have better kicking skills than at least so many of our ordinary players who never seem to be dropped. Look how Steven has developed this year with regular games.

this might give you a clue if you don't have one.

http://www.saints.com.au/injuries/tabid ... fault.aspx

Add Cripps and Sipposs who were injured in the second half of the year.

If you wanted to play the young guys, we wouldn't have made the finals in the first place.

[bergsone]

If we were to play only 1 or 2 finals this year,was really hoping to have a Cripps,Siposs etc in the side.Experience would have been invaluable,plus maybe youthfull spark for the rest,wasnt to be,inj seen to that.RL said as much few weeks back
IMO its not all doom and gloom,looking forward to 2012,with these guys,add Simpkin,Walsh,dont reckon we are looking to bad.RL has a good base to work with,hope and think he will do the so called rebuild without too much pain

[lefty]

Delisted already (And imo was required)
- Baker
- McQualter
- Eddy
- Gardiner

Next in line imo
- Heyne (Had time)
- Gamble (Not good enough)
- Cahill (Had time)
- Blake (Old?)
- Ray (Was very ordinary imo, can be replaced)
- Gram (I question his decision making/kicking stills of "long bombs"), you'd need to find a suitable replacement before moving him on though

Peake should stay, he has shown he can play (look at his mid season performances), I think Peake has the biggest engine at the club, he can sprint the entire oval one end to the other the fastest in the team. He just needs confidence.

I wouldn't get rid of Gilbert either, guezz 1 bad year and people want him gone? Give him a chance, imo he's better than Raph Clarke even when he's down on performance.

Bring on these guys below:
- Sipposs (for Gamble)
- Crocker (Going to be a star)
- Ledger (for Ray)
- Winmar (Not sure if hes ready?)
- Cripps _(Will be in the midfield)
- Walsh (To the forward line)
- Stanley (for Gardy)
- Simpkin (for Blake)


Smokies:
- Lynch
- Curren
- Ferguson

[Scollop]

Hey Joffaboy, you said Scollop's article was crap Please tell us all in hell's name who our new players were on Saturday??? Polo was the only one and he was picked up from another club.
Someone said Archer as one of our new players, what a joke, one game and then dropped, Yes he played some young ones and a few got injuries but most were dropped. South had 5 players playing their first final game against us, what great experience for them. Lyon does not believe in giving youth much of a go, but hey Ross did you notice we had only 3 goals at half time?
At least young players would run faster and have better kicking skills than at least so many of our ordinary players who never seem to be dropped. Look how Steven has developed this year with regular games.

Ross was forced to play Macca and resisted playing any other youngsters in finals this year or last year for that matter. The reality of coaches situation after the GF loss last year was that he wanted to 'please' his employers by getting team into finals again. Self preservation has cost us Ross.

Ross should not have played a couple of midfielders in last years prelim or at least not played them in the first GF if they were injured. Gramm and Dal didn't look right for the first GF 2010. Stevens was the kid that should've played. Ross definitley had faith in his core group of players , but he took the low risk option instead of going for broke and risking upsetting the players. Now, this year the pressure got to him and he handled Bakes and McQ's delisting v badly. I'm not certain that Ross is the best person for the job ofsenior coach.

Ross has a reputation for making the wrong decision at match committee. Hudgeton will always be remebered as great defendor. Dawson should not have taken his spot in the 2009 GF.

Reality for board and ceo and footy department is that they need fans to turn up and buy memberships so they backed the coaches plans to get recycled players. Lyon thought he was the messiah for getting us into the GF 2009. He was outcoached and his player development in 2010 sucked big time. He learnt nothing from the Collingwood coach and his player development and player management in 2010. Malthouse used Lockyer, medhurst, Josh Fraser, Jack Anthony and Presti throughout the year, but when it came to finals he had faith in and stuck with the youth. Nathan Brown performed. Dawes performed. Sidebottom, Wellingham, Goldsack and Blair all stayed in the team.

The easy and low risk option last year for Ross and his assistants was to recruit recycled ready made 'ordinary players' rather than hang on to all the young guys and risk getting some games into them. Reality for fans is that recycled rejects won't win you finals.

[plugger66]

Hey Joffaboy, you said Scollop's article was crap Please tell us all in hell's name who our new players were on Saturday??? Polo was the only one and he was picked up from another club.
Someone said Archer as one of our new players, what a joke, one game and then dropped, Yes he played some young ones and a few got injuries but most were dropped. South had 5 players playing their first final game against us, what great experience for them. Lyon does not believe in giving youth much of a go, but hey Ross did you notice we had only 3 goals at half time?
At least young players would run faster and have better kicking skills than at least so many of our ordinary players who never seem to be dropped. Look how Steven has developed this year with regular games.

Ross was forced to play Macca and resisted playing any other youngsters in finals this year or last year for that matter. The reality of coaches situation after the GF loss last year was that he wanted to 'please' his employers by getting team into finals again. Self preservation has cost us Ross.

Ross should have rested a couple of midfielders in last years prelim or at least not played them in the first GF. Gramm and Dal didn't look right for the first GF 2010. Stevens was the kid that should've played. Ross definitley had faith in his core group of players , but he took the low risk option instead of going for broke and risking upsetting the players. Now, this year the pressure got to him and he handled Bakes and McQ's delisting v badly. I'm not certain that Ross is the best person for the job ofsenior coach.

Ross has a reputation for making the wrong decision at match committee. Hudgeton will always be remebered as great defendor. Dawson should not have taken his spot in the 2009 GF.

Reality for board and ceo and footy department is that they need fans to turn up and buy memberships so they backed the coaches plans to get recycled players. Lyon thought he was the messiah for getting us into the GF 2009. He was outcoached and his player development in 2010 sucked big time. He learnt nothing from the Collingwood coach and his player development and player management in 2010. Malthouse used Lockyer, medhurst, Josh Fraser, Jack Anthony and Presti throughout the year, but when it came to finals he had faith in and stuck with the youth. Nathan Brown performed. Dawes performed. Sidebottom, Wellingham, Goldsack and Blair all stayed in the team.

The easy and low risk option last year for Ross and his assistants was to recruit recycled ready made 'ordinary players' rather than hang on to all the young guys and risk getting some games into them. Reality for fans is that recycled rejects won't win you finals.

He should have rested Dal and Gram in the prelim. Rest in a prelim, you are joking and then you suggest Steven as a replacement. He was injured and Armo was underdone. There were no replacements available and you dont rest in a prelim. it is your last chance for a GF. As for Max he wasnt up to it and Dawson did a great job even in hindsight in the 2009 GF.

[NoMore]

How is Geary not being put on the delisted list
He can't kick, offers no run, and his decission making is digusting. SOmeone please get rid of him

[noob]

for mine probably heyne and cahill are the only ones to be delisted. Blake probably shouldn't play again next year if he does.. might as well delist simpkin if they're similar players because he should be ready by now to replace him.

[Superboot]

I can't understand how Eddie and MacQualter are somehow deemed to be good enough to be picked and playing in a GF one year and then delisted the next... I can't believe Luke Miles was delisted without given a proper opportunity. I liked the look of him Vs Tigers in late h&away of 2010. Don't tell me he is less of a player than Polo or Gamble or Ray

Eddie and Mini weren't good enough to be picked and playing in a GF. This explains, in part, why we failed to win both. Neither would have got a game with the winning team.

Tend to agree with you on Miles. Reckon he could have been a project.

Ray, overall, has been terrific and in a different class from Polo and Gamble. Has fallen away recently, and this needs addressing.

[Superboot]

Ross should have rested Gram and Dal in the first GF, saving them for the replay.

[End Of An Era]

The membership is not stupid, but I suppose alot of Saints fans would not have been very accepting if Ross had come out at the end of last year and said we'll be 'rebuilding' 2011 - expect some pain and see ya later Gardy/Blakey/Bakes. We want the best for the club to be in a position to challenge for a flag. We don't care about finishing in the 8 for the next three years if the result ends up being 5th or 6th at best.

If Lyon was fair dinkum about player development instead of self-preservation, he should've stuck to giving the youngsters - including Walsh and Stanley - more opportunities to learn in the big league rather than in the VFL.

Anyway you cut it, this years end result was not a surprise. How many teams in the history of AFL/VFL go to the well two years running falling just short with a list that may have already peaked, and then back up with another GF appearance the following year? So much needed to go right and maybe if you introduced 3 seasoned quality footballers it may have been different, but once again, history was against us. The team was going to have to go backwards in 2011 unless Lyon had somehow convinced the board that Polo and Gamble were the X-factor that was missing...LOL

He should've tried players in different positions just like he said would at the end of NAB cup games this year. We would've probably won just as many games with half our list being 18 and 19 yr olds rather than playing Polo, Gamble, Blake and Dawson to some extent, and Ray. Bakes and Gardiner should have retired or been delisted last year and I defy anyone to tell me that if you look at it objectively that logically their time wasn't up 12 mths ago. Eddie on the Rookie list without even a look in this year is still one of the most baffling things to me.

I can't understand how Eddie and MacQualter are somehow deemed to be good enough to be picked and playing in a GF one year and then delisted the next... I can't believe Luke Miles was delisted without given a proper opportunity. I liked the look of him Vs Tigers in late h&away of 2010. Don't tell me he is less of a player than Polo or Gamble or Ray...Anyhow; are all these sort of list management decisions Ross Lyons or does he blame someone else?

I must say that is one of the best hindsight posts I have ever read.

No offence plugger66 but your response is one of the most stupid responses I have ever read. The above post is not hindsight at all. Heaps of St kilda supporters have been screaming all year for Ross to start playing the youngsters. As far as the comments about Eddie and McQualter I fully concur. I suggest you re-read the post and open your eyes and mind.

[IluvHarvey]

The membership is not stupid, but I suppose alot of Saints fans would not have been very accepting if Ross had come out at the end of last year and said we'll be 'rebuilding' 2011 - expect some pain and see ya later Gardy/Blakey/Bakes. We want the best for the club to be in a position to challenge for a flag. We don't care about finishing in the 8 for the next three years if the result ends up being 5th or 6th at best.

If Lyon was fair dinkum about player development instead of self-preservation, he should've stuck to giving the youngsters - including Walsh and Stanley - more opportunities to learn in the big league rather than in the VFL.

Anyway you cut it, this years end result was not a surprise. How many teams in the history of AFL/VFL go to the well two years running falling just short with a list that may have already peaked, and then back up with another GF appearance the following year? So much needed to go right and maybe if you introduced 3 seasoned quality footballers it may have been different, but once again, history was against us. The team was going to have to go backwards in 2011 unless Lyon had somehow convinced the board that Polo and Gamble were the X-factor that was missing...LOL

He should've tried players in different positions just like he said would at the end of NAB cup games this year. We would've probably won just as many games with half our list being 18 and 19 yr olds rather than playing Polo, Gamble, Blake and Dawson to some extent, and Ray. Bakes and Gardiner should have retired or been delisted last year and I defy anyone to tell me that if you look at it objectively that logically their time wasn't up 12 mths ago. Eddie on the Rookie list without even a look in this year is still one of the most baffling things to me.

I can't understand how Eddie and MacQualter are somehow deemed to be good enough to be picked and playing in a GF one year and then delisted the next... I can't believe Luke Miles was delisted without given a proper opportunity. I liked the look of him Vs Tigers in late h&away of 2010. Don't tell me he is less of a player than Polo or Gamble or Ray...Anyhow; are all these sort of list management decisions Ross Lyons or does he blame someone else?

I must say that is one of the best hindsight posts I have ever read.

No offence plugger66 but your response is one of the most stupid responses I have ever read. The above post is not hindsight at all. Heaps of St kilda supporters have been screaming all year for Ross to start playing the youngsters. As far as the comments about Eddie and McQualter I fully concur. I suggest you re-read the post and open your eyes and mind.

Maybe you should open your eyes and read! Lyon did try youngsters we played heaps of them, most got injured, some were not up to it. I do agree with some we should have played a bunch of injured kids more often.

[plugger66]

The membership is not stupid, but I suppose alot of Saints fans would not have been very accepting if Ross had come out at the end of last year and said we'll be 'rebuilding' 2011 - expect some pain and see ya later Gardy/Blakey/Bakes. We want the best for the club to be in a position to challenge for a flag. We don't care about finishing in the 8 for the next three years if the result ends up being 5th or 6th at best.

If Lyon was fair dinkum about player development instead of self-preservation, he should've stuck to giving the youngsters - including Walsh and Stanley - more opportunities to learn in the big league rather than in the VFL.

Anyway you cut it, this years end result was not a surprise. How many teams in the history of AFL/VFL go to the well two years running falling just short with a list that may have already peaked, and then back up with another GF appearance the following year? So much needed to go right and maybe if you introduced 3 seasoned quality footballers it may have been different, but once again, history was against us. The team was going to have to go backwards in 2011 unless Lyon had somehow convinced the board that Polo and Gamble were the X-factor that was missing...LOL

He should've tried players in different positions just like he said would at the end of NAB cup games this year. We would've probably won just as many games with half our list being 18 and 19 yr olds rather than playing Polo, Gamble, Blake and Dawson to some extent, and Ray. Bakes and Gardiner should have retired or been delisted last year and I defy anyone to tell me that if you look at it objectively that logically their time wasn't up 12 mths ago. Eddie on the Rookie list without even a look in this year is still one of the most baffling things to me.

I can't understand how Eddie and MacQualter are somehow deemed to be good enough to be picked and playing in a GF one year and then delisted the next... I can't believe Luke Miles was delisted without given a proper opportunity. I liked the look of him Vs Tigers in late h&away of 2010. Don't tell me he is less of a player than Polo or Gamble or Ray...Anyhow; are all these sort of list management decisions Ross Lyons or does he blame someone else?

I must say that is one of the best hindsight posts I have ever read.

No offence plugger66 but your response is one of the most stupid responses I have ever read. The above post is not hindsight at all. Heaps of St kilda supporters have been screaming all year for Ross to start playing the youngsters. As far as the comments about Eddie and McQualter I fully concur. I suggest you re-read the post and open your eyes and mind.

End of an Era. Automatically think Pies supporter. Anyway I refuse to discuss Eddie, this is a Saints forum.

[Scollop]

[quote="End Of An EraNo offence plugger66 but your response is one of the most stupid responses I have ever read. The above post is not hindsight at all. Heaps of St kilda supporters have been screaming all year for Ross to start playing the youngsters. As far as the comments about Eddie and McQualter I fully concur. I suggest you re-read the post and open your eyes and mind.

Cheers mate. I know Ross has done his best, but I also know that long after Ross has left the Saints...whenever that is..we'll still be here supporting and buying up memberships.

The club has to make some hard decisions while Roo and Lenny and Dal and BJ and Chips can still play at their peak. Use the whole list to get you into a position to challenge, but use the youth in the finals to add the speed and spark.

[plugger66]

[quote="End Of An EraNo offence plugger66 but your response is one of the most stupid responses I have ever read. The above post is not hindsight at all. Heaps of St kilda supporters have been screaming all year for Ross to start playing the youngsters. As far as the comments about Eddie and McQualter I fully concur. I suggest you re-read the post and open your eyes and mind.

Cheers mate. I know Ross has done his best, but I also know that long after Ross has left the Saints...whenever that is..we'll still be here supporting and buying up memberships.

The club has to make some hard decisions while Roo and Lenny and Dal and BJ and Chips can still play at their peak. Use the whole list to get you into a position to challenge, but use the youth in the finals to add the speed and spark.

And apart from Walsh what youngsters should have played more and also played in the finals?

[IluvHarvey]

Cheers mate. I know Ross has done his best, but I also know that long after Ross has left the Saints...whenever that is..we'll still be here supporting and buying up memberships.

The club has to make some hard decisions while Roo and Lenny and Dal and BJ and Chips can still play at their peak. Use the whole list to get you into a position to challenge, but use the youth in the finals to add the speed and spark.

And apart from Walsh what youngsters should have played more and also played in the finals?

Just had to fix up the quotes as it looked like I had said something completely the opposite of what I did...................continue