Raph has to go...

[Bernard Shakey]

Havent bothered to read the whole thread as I have a feelong I know how it goes! I would like to say that the blame Raph or Raph has to go stuff is a pity IMO. A week a go most had him BOG against the blues, he was far from our worst last night I thought, Raph is the guy who leaves his man to help out others and keeps on running to get in to position and provide an option out of defence. From time to time he gets caught with it but this is going to happen when you take the game on IMO.

I beleive we should stick with him!

I would be more worried about Dawson and Gram in particular with the skills of Blake Peake and Geary also of great concern?

+100

[bigcarl]

I sat near a St Kilda fellow last night who just bagged Raph at every opportunity.

Sad thing is, his two kids, young girls, also were getting stuck into him. Get Raph off, etc, etc.

Not a good role model.

You should be able to understand why he is bagged. he got runned down at least 2-3 times last night, and just looks out of it as soon as he gets the ball.
He makes me cringe every time he gets the ball.

At least he got the ball occasionally, unlike a few of the other robots.

[bigcarl]

Raph was poor last night, no doubt, nut so was Roo, Kosi, GIlbert, Zac, Polo, Schneider and a host of others.

this

[InkerSaint]

I'm almost hoping we delist him so this witch hunt can end.

I really don't remember a player that has been as unfairly maligned as Raph.

Ah well, as he is one of our best 22, we can look forward to another year of "Raph must go threads" each time we lose.

Best 22? Are you serious? So why didn't he get a game when James Gwilt was playing? Because Gwilt IS BETTER. Raph Clarke is not in our best 22.

Actually, sadly, Raph is in our best 22 and it's a perfect illustration of why the list needs a rebuild.

Time after time last night, he gained possession and tried to sidestep the opposition who were about three seconds ahead of him.

The first time he got caught, you would have thought, he'll be more careful next time... but no... again and again... he was trying to sell candy... but no-one was buying.

Sydney gave up very little space, which I think exposed Raph's game. He has weapons, and flaws, like any player. The weapons are good but the flaws are also quite large.

Earlier in the day Luke Shuey was lambasted by the commentators for being caught with the ball 3 or 4 times during the game. They were somewhat forgiving because it was Shuey's first final.

Raph is almost 26.

There's too many "Moneyball" players on this list. Guys that wouldn't get a game anywhere else but were able to make a contribution because the gameplan was designed to use their weapons and cover their weaknesses.

As any gameplan worth its salt does...

So sorry, but the fat lady has sung.

[SainterK]

Inker, did you watch the Carlton game today?

[InkerSaint]

Inker, did you watch the Carlton game today?

Glimpses only. What did I miss?

[SainterK]

Inker, did you watch the Carlton game today?

Glimpses only. What did I miss?

Yarran got caught holding the ball more times today than Raph last night, I'd be pretty confident to say he has probably been caught more times that Raph in the last month.

Just wondered why the general football world see him as exciting and creative?

There is a risk/reward that comes with that particular role.

Maybe it doesn't look so messy when you turn it over by foot and bomb it, he may be better to take a Harry O type approach in the future?

[kalsaint]

I'm almost hoping we delist him so this witch hunt can end.

Yup agreed.

I suppose we alawy have young Nicholas Winmar to scapegoat next year



And if people think I am using the race card.

YOU AR DAMNED FKN TOOTIN I am.

It has been a witch hunt on Raph from the start, and the critisism by some has much more to do than hi s ability.

He got caught at least twice last night because he had SFA to kicki too. Stupid halfwits who only ball watch wouldn't have a clue on the zone 20-70 metres up the field.

Raph was poor last night, no doubt, nut so was Roo, Kosi, GIlbert, Zac, Polo, Schneider and a host of others.

Where is the hatefilled diatribes against them?

A disgrace.

Raph, just retire, or leave. These so called supporters will never accept you.

Nicholas Winmar, you better go as well, you'll be next.

Not sure where you're going with this Joff , I loved Nicky Winmar but don't like Raph...It's all about the footy pure and simple. I'm sure you'll find that %99 are the same.

Loved watching Gilbert McAdam and his brother from North Melbourne too. Still like watching Gilbert on the TV. Love watching Buddy, the Davey's, Pat Ryder and many more. Loved watching Wirrupunda, Polly Farmer, Nicky Winmar, Wanganeen, Syd Jackson and others.

Dont like watching Goodes so much (too Good in recent games), never keen on Tambling or Cockatoo Collins, cringed with X's style of play (always a injury chance), cringe with Raph's style too because he has elevated himself above the first Mr. Turnover (Shaun McManus).

Its all about game style, skills and entertainment not moods, colour or creed.

[desertsaint]

i thought raph had had enough chances, but he had a really good season in the end. finshed with that great game against carlton. then yesterday happened.
he at least had an honest go, and i remember i once said the same about blake time and time again.
just dunno...

[Solar]

joke of a thread, last week, BOG, this week, average in a very bad side. Go figure

[Sainternist]

I'm sure I'll be slammed for this post but the reality is that he's just not good enough. He made so many bad decisions tonight and cost us badly. No awareness, no speed and poor skills. I wish him well but his place in the side can not be justifed any longer.

Well done on recovering from a shocking start, but we're no longer a force. Time to rebuild.

Correction - it is time for YOU to go.

Normally, I would call you "Captain Obvious", but on this occaision I am going to call you a cab.

Adios!

So tell me, my learned friend, other than your abilty to call 13cabs, why should Raph be in our best 22? Lots of tip but no iceberg. Seriously, if you're going to post, back it up. 'Normally', I would call you a moron, but please justify your comments?

Actually, I was intending on calling you a Silvertop Taxi. That number is 131008.

You think I'm all iceberg, do you?

Think again.

In case you didn't notice - or were you in hibernation before the finals? - Raphael Clarke's game improved out of site. To the point of being a valuable part of our defense.

He came back into the side with a huge postion to fill - that of James Gwilt's and responded tremendously.

Your post, IMHO, was a pathetic, lily livered, kneejerk reaction.

Why didn't you take a swipe at another player? Raph wasn't the only player who played poorly last night. You could taken a shot at Dean Pollo, Jarryn Geary or David Armitage - all of whom played just as poorly (if not worse).

I just think your post was unoriginal and so typical of of the knuckleheaded crap that is normally posted on here after a Saints loss.

Raph is an easy target and it is so boring seeing him singled out. It's sickening. Are you one of those cretins who yells at him at games? Don't let me catch you doing this because if I catch you I will frogmarch you to the opposition CS and force you to don their colours.

Instead of nitpicking for whippingboys, try posting some constructive

[saintspremiers]

joke of a thread, last week, BOG, this week, average in a very bad side. Go figure

Don't worry Solar, we have lots of very simple supporters amongst our mob!

[plugger66]

We have these threads every week on 2 players, Kosi and Raph. One week it is positive and the next it is negative. Raph is an average footballer who will play many average games, some good ones and some poor ones. I dont know what people want. He will never be a star and never a complete hack. He is ok in good sides and no good for us in a poor side because he is inconsistant. He will stay so for people who want him to go you will be disappointed. The same goes for people who get excited by a game like last week. You will also continue to be disappointed. This could also be written exactly the same for Kosi. And on his game on Saturday that was one of his poor ones. Very poor actually like a couple of others on Saturday night.

[Dr Spaceman]

We have these threads every week on 2 players, Kosi and Raph. One week it is positive and the next it is negative. Raph is an average footballer who will play many average games, some good ones and some poor ones. I dont know what people want. He will never be a star and never a complete hack. He is ok in good sides and no good for us in a poor side because he is inconsistant. He will stay so for people who want him to go you will be disappointed. The same goes for people who get excited by a game like last week. You will also continue to be disappointed. This could also be written exactly the same for Kosi. And on his game on Saturday that was one of his poor ones. Very poor actually like a couple of others on Saturday night.

That is an Inconvenient Truth.

Are you Al Gore?

[meher baba]

Inker, did you watch the Carlton game today?

Glimpses only. What did I miss?

Yarran got caught holding the ball more times today than Raph last night, I'd be pretty confident to say he has probably been caught more times that Raph in the last month.

Just wondered why the general football world see him as exciting and creative?

There is a risk/reward that comes with that particular role.

Maybe it doesn't look so messy when you turn it over by foot and bomb it, he may be better to take a Harry O type approach in the future?

Spot on, being run down and pinged for holding the ball looks dreadful but - assuming it doesn't happen within kicking range for the opposition (which it did in the first 5 minutes of the 2009 GF but hasn't often with Raph lately) it's gotta be better than kicking straight to a turnover. With a turnover, the opposition charges straight back at you before your defence is set.

So, if I were their coach, I'd be reasonably happy about Raph, Yarran and Shooey doing what they do, as long as it's outside of the defensive 50 and as long as they don't drop the ball when they are tackled.

[InkerSaint]

Yarran got caught holding the ball more times today than Raph last night, I'd be pretty confident to say he has probably been caught more times that Raph in the last month.

Just for starters Chris Yarran is 20, and can hope for improvement.

By no means am I scapegoating Raph for last night's result. I am looking at the long view for a player with his attributes in a rebuilding side.

The trouble is that Carlton are a team on the rise, and St. Kilda are a team in decline.

I'm not saying the fat lady has sung for Raph Clarke. I'm saying the fat lady has sung for St. Kilda.

[joffaboy]

Lol @ the hysterical responses from some here.

If you read my post I didn't label ALL who critiise Clarke as have=ing a racist element.

EVERY player is open to critisism, I have openly critisised Raph, so have many here I know do it soley on his merit.

Others seem only to rise their ugly heads when Raph plays poorly. You never hear from them otherwise.

You can only answer for yourself if your critisism is based on Raph Clarke the footballer or some other criteria.

AFAIAC Raph had a terrible game on Saturday. Shocking. Possibly the worst I have seen him play. But that is judged on his football talent alone nothing else.

And if you think racism is gone from football, wake the fk up to yourselves.

Natanui gets racially vilified on the weekend.

I hear Saints supporters calling Garland and Yarran "petrol sniffers" at the Eithad Round 8 game against Carlton.

Majak Daw gets racially abused during the year.

There is still an underlying racist element in football as in life.

The witch hunt against Raph Clarke (and X earlier) is symptomatic of it.

And as the Jiggling Saints points out, Clarke gets a thread like this every week while others like Gram gets a free ride.

Ask yourself why is that? As yourself why Raph Clarke is an easy target (now even easier for some now Jimmy Gwilt has gone down - have heard many a Saints supporter slam Clarke when Gwilt had the ball - but hey, they all look the same dont they )

Did I state any individual was racist? Did I even state the OP was motivated by race?

NO.

But myriad posters jump on here all frenzied because i have mentioned the elephant in the room.

It isn't comfortable, but it is a reality, and only the delusional or ignorant would argue the opposite.

[borderbarry]

I am ashamed to say it, but it is obvious that there is a degree of racism on this forum when it comes to Raph Clarke.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

The only way racism comes into it:

Indigenous players are renowned for their speed, spatial awareness and freakish skills. (That itself might be considered a racist observation.) Nicky Winmar is a prime example.

Raph is laconic, clumsy, low-skilled and has very little spatial awareness.

So Raph is being compared -- because of his skin colour -- to players to whom he's otherwise very dissimilar. It's better to compare him to other tall defenders.

Having said that, I still don't believe he measures up.

[Sobraz]

Inker, did you watch the Carlton game today?

Glimpses only. What did I miss?

Yarran got caught holding the ball more times today than Raph last night, I'd be pretty confident to say he has probably been caught more times that Raph in the last month.

Just wondered why the general football world see him as exciting and creative?

There is a risk/reward that comes with that particular role.

Maybe it doesn't look so messy when you turn it over by foot and bomb it, he may be better to take a Harry O type approach in the future?

Both Yarren and Harry O are twice the player Raph is...

Sure they may make errors, but not of the size or as often as Raph, and their best is far better and more consistent..

Realistically, if we are gonna step up a gear next year, Raph's place in the side must be under jeopardy..

The difference between his best and worst is the biggest in the comp.. Just can't carry this inconsistency in what is now a senior, mature player..

[Middo]

I'm sure 100% of posters here would swap Raph for Yarran in a heartbeat ...He has speed and his kicking is on most occasions spot on.

[Middo]

Sainternist wrote:
Why didn't you take a swipe at another player? Raph wasn't the only player who played poorly last night. You could taken a shot at Dean Pollo, Jarryn Geary or David Armitage - all of whom played just as poorly (if not worse).

Was our worst player on the night and if anybody on this forum can say that when the ball is in his hands that they don't get nervous or the cheeks clinche a little then your kidding yourself.
Maybe to much is expected of him but with all the threads over the last 4/5 years about the same thing surely there must be some merit in it all , all other supporters from other teams love the fact that he play's for us. I look forward to Gwilt's return as he is reliable not so Raph.

[BonoRocks]

Havent bothered to read the whole thread as I have a feelong I know how it goes! I would like to say that the blame Raph or Raph has to go stuff is a pity IMO. A week a go most had him BOG against the blues, he was far from our worst last night I thought, Raph is the guy who leaves his man to help out others and keeps on running to get in to position and provide an option out of defence. From time to time he gets caught with it but this is going to happen when you take the game on IMO.

I beleive we should stick with him!

I would be more worried about Dawson and Gram in particular with the skills of Blake Peake and Geary also of great concern?

you shoulnt come up with these sorts of comments on here. Of your listed players here, peak is the only one id keep (as well as Raph)

[The Fireman]

I am ashamed to say it, but it is obvious that there is a degree of racism on this forum when it comes to Raph Clarke.

Could you please point it out?

[SainterK]

Inker, did you watch the Carlton game today?

Glimpses only. What did I miss?

Yarran got caught holding the ball more times today than Raph last night, I'd be pretty confident to say he has probably been caught more times that Raph in the last month.

Just wondered why the general football world see him as exciting and creative?

There is a risk/reward that comes with that particular role.

Maybe it doesn't look so messy when you turn it over by foot and bomb it, he may be better to take a Harry O type approach in the future?

Both Yarren and Harry O are twice the player Raph is...

Sure they may make errors, but not of the size or as often as Raph, and their best is far better and more consistent..

Realistically, if we are gonna step up a gear next year, Raph's place in the side must be under jeopardy..

The difference between his best and worst is the biggest in the comp.. Just can't carry this inconsistency in what is now a senior, mature player..

Did I say Raph was at their level?

I just said it's expected of him to accomplish the same as they do, and he fell into similar pitfalls as they do.

I'd still like someone to point out to me who was leading for him, laying a shepherd for him, providing run along side him?

Or better yet, tell me who else was prepared to try and take the game on? Most flat footed half of footy I've ever seen, where was Farrens run, or Gilberts?