It's gonna happen sooner or later, so here goes...

[Toy Saint]

The question should be, "Who is the ideal coach to rebuild St Kilda?"

[SainterK]

To be honest, I have more respect for those who expressed they weren't a fan before now.

To begin to do so only now....I mean I'm not going to stop you feeling that way, but it's a little wishy washy.

I see him as a guy who has endeared himself to the players, more times than not gives them a plan to execute that generally is solid, has a great understanding of the game.

I'd like some names of guys who are good developers of youth that are available, Bailey didn't appear to be, I guess the Dogs didn't trust Rocket with theirs, Neil Craig not so much, Mark Williams didn't even know he had youth on his list at Port....

Haven't seen anything that tells me Ross can't do it, unless I've missed it?

I think having our own reserves would do more to address that issue than a change of coach.

[gringo]

I find the fact that he isn't credited as having developed a list confounding. He came in and after he saw that the list he had wasn't going to do the job he went about a fairly radical restructure. He moved Goose, X man, Voss, Gerhig, Birss, Max etc. on. He played young guys, sent stars who coasted away for a break, showed no favours for players that were happy to coast or injury prone. Bailey suffered from GT syndrome where he was the players best mate and couldn't be honest or tough with them. He can play hard ball with an under performing list and I think he is being underrated by fans that rate him on this season alone.

[thejiggingsaint]

I'm not 100% sure if I should be posting on this issue so close to the event. Its often better to take a wee bit of time to reflect before posting (as shown with my infamous "I just can't be arsed" post after the Hawthorn loss )
At this stage I'm totally gutted at the performance last night, but also (strangely enough) relieved that the season is now over and can be consigned to the dustbin of history.
I can't help liking Ross, I think the man is SO straight and honest and I'm sure that the players have lots of respect and love for him. However, the style of football we've come to be associated with is awful to watch at times, and how in hell anyone can expect to win a game by scoring THREE goals in a half of football is beyond this poster. There are times when we look awful and then we look sublime...all in ONE game! It drives me crazy! But I still have faith in the coaching staff, to find the "blend" and take the comp by storm.
If Ross goes, then I for one will wish him well and be grateful for his efforts. If He stays I will thank him for keeping faith with the potential of my club and embracing us to become a SAINTS PERSON!!

[andrewg]

I am a bit frustrated with the blind faith he has shown rooey this year. Fit or not the skipper let the supporters and Ross down when it counted most of this year. Ross is only as good as his cattle and when your best player is sub standard (2011) and your last 6 players are just battlers you can't expect to win everything. While I would love to win a big one we have had a good ride with wins. I'm sure the tigers and demOns supporters would like to be in our shoes. In short Ross is a good coach and it would be a mistake to let him go.

[plugger66]

I am a bit frustrated with the blind faith he has shown rooey this year. Fit or not the skipper let the supporters and Ross down when it counted most of this year. Ross is only as good as his cattle and when your best player is sub standard (2011) and your last 6 players are just battlers you can't expect to win everything. While I would love to win a big one we have had a good ride with wins. I'm sure the tigers and demOns supporters would like to be in our shoes. In short Ross is a good coach and it would be a mistake to let him go.

Can I ask what he should have done with Rooy?

[AlpineStars]

Not fussed if he goes.

[Johnny Favier]

I think Ross is the best coach we've had since Jeans.

At this point in time, we need to hold our nerve and the need for stability is paramount.

Therefore, I think we should move heaven and earth to ensure Ross stays a Saints man and sits down with Pelchen and nuts out a plan to move this club forward.

No more panicking for this club. Had a gutful of that throughout the 80s and 90s!

[Dr Spaceman]

I think Ross is the best coach we've had since Jeans.

At this point in time, we need to hold our nerve and the need for stability is paramount.

Therefore, I think we should move heaven and earth to ensure Ross stays a Saints man and sits down with Pelchen and nuts out a plan to move this club forward.

No more panicking for this club. Had a gutful of that throughout the 80s and 90s!

Pretty much sums up my feelings JF.

[thejiggingsaint]

Johnny Favier you beauty!!! I wish I could have put it so well!!

[andrewg]

Yes. He should have been honest with rooeys injury given him the op he most clearly needs 6-7 weeks ago and played someone fit (walsh, gamble???) We wouldnt have lost anything and rooey would already be on track for a big 2012

[andrewg]

Spot on JF

[samoht]

This is not my view - but the opinion of a friend who has been a 40 year follower and decade long member of the Sainters;

My view on Lyon has evolved over the last three years. I have always felt GT had improved the side and added younsters to build a team that would grow and improve together and the early Pre-lims '04 and 05 were eveidence that the moulding of a future Premiership team was unfolding. Everyone realised, once Butters filed court proceedings against Thomas, that his reasons for sacking the coach may not have been truthful and his alterior motives created unnecessary upheveal and dissapointment within club, turmoil within the playing group and ultimately caused the board challenge and the resignation of the president.

We had to accept the change as fans and the players as professionals had to get on with the job they're paid to do. We believed the playing group had been encouraged by their efforts in previous years and were hungry for success. They took a while to bond with the new coach and actually start playing for him (the media calls it 'understanding the coaches game plan') and the team went backwards before going forward. Ross was of the belief that he could inject ready made talent with the imports from Sydney and that our premiership chances were best served with recycled and traded players rather than with youth. I'm not sure that his whole footy philosophy is a positive one. I am not sure that he can motivate individuals to get thebest out of them.

The improving players that the media have focussed on have been the taggers. Ross has definitely been great for teaching taggers how to be defensive and negating, however you've gotta kick goals in our game or you are not going anywhere. When the Saints core group of current leaders was natural improving and maturing we were kicking a lot of goals. When the Ross Lyons style started being imprinted on the grey matter of players and brainwashed into their psyche, we adopted a taxing game plan that has ultimately proved to be a faliure for this playing group. Lyon does not promote or encourage or nurture 'goal-kickers'. Guys that are hungry for goals. I am not sure that he has a strategy for goals. Last night he said; "we failed to tag Shaw as well as as we tagged Goodes and others!" I mean fair dinkum,how about encouraging offence. Guys that the team will value for their goal sense. I have not seen forwards encouraged, or new guys brought in to develop and improve as forwards under Lyon. For that matter, I have not seen midfielders grow and improve under Lyon.

The media has created a myth about our poor list pre-Lyon and let it grow and flourish. Saints fans need not believe this myth. I'm starting to think that Ross's attitude of trying to recycle rejects from other clubs and his haphazourd approach to nurturing and developing the youth in the team is indicative of his lack of understanding in what makes a premiership team. I have not seen our players leadership skills grow and improve.

After the senior squad just played their hearts out in the GF in 2009, we gathered together the next day and Ross said this statemnet to his players in front of fans, members and the media; "if you don't want to be here, then leave!!" The coach was questioning whether the players wanted to try again and questioned whether they wanted to improve, and questioned whether they wanted to work hard to achieve their goals. How dare he question the efforts and loyalty of our players.

All this when we consider that this playing group had been moulded together prior to Ross arriving and the leaders at the club had made a decision to stick with the Saints - when as individuals, you would not be unreasonable in thinking that the likes of BJ or Dal or Roo could have earnt bigger bucks and longer contracts with rival clubs that had been courting them. In the context of everything that had happened in previous years and the pain of missing out in the last day in September 2009 and having also experienced 4 pre-lims with the core playing group, I could not believe my ears.

Lyon did not provide the right message when he said; "if you don't want to be here, then leave!!" This negative attitude encapsulates and summarises the philosophy of the man. I don't believe he is the right person to develop and improve and encourage the youth at St.Kilda. Whatever talent we currently have at the club, can we please not waste the opportunity to nurture these guys with the wrong coach.

Go Saints in 2012 and beyond.

[kalsaint]

I can feel it already, the great Saintsational divide is about to begin.....again!


So, ladies and gentlemen, which side are you on?


I love Ross Lyon?
or..

I hate Ross Lyon?

Remember everyone, there is no in-between in this joint! You either love someone, or you hate them!



So take a side people, strap yourself in and enjoy the next 6 months!!

Hope stays as he has the credentials to change the team for success. The question is: Will he be enticed to Melbourne?

[Teflon]

Must stay.

Challenge is to rebuild - IF he walks.....a lot of respect walks ith him as hes a man of his word IMO.

Unfinished business.

[bigred]

We have to tag.

A third of our best 22 are no where near the required skill level.

[jonesy]

Despise our gamestyle. Virtually unwatchable. Yet I love what he get's out of the list....how's that for confused?

[Johnny Member]

Despise our gamestyle. Virtually unwatchable. Yet I love what he get's out of the list....how's that for confused?

I've got to admit, Ross Lyon's entire tenure has been confusing to me!

I constantly flip between thinking he's a genius, to thinking he's hopeless, to thinking he's somewhere in the middle.

I flop between thinking our game style has cost us flags by holding back natural talent, to thinking it may have nearly pinched us flags!

I flip between shaking my head at the horrible look of our list right now, to thinking that maybe the list right now might still be a contender for another 2 years.

[borderbarry]

Just maybe we need assistant coaches with more power or influence, to have a bigger influence on the playing group. I really admired Terry Danaher when he was our forward coach, then our defensive coach, but I believe he was given the shove as he was seen as a threat to the Senior coach. (I could be wrong). Similarly I thought that Tudor and Silvagni did good jobs. But our current lot have no impressed, apart from Steven King as Ruck coach.

[Leo.J]

I think Ross is the best coach we've had since Jeans.

At this point in time, we need to hold our nerve and the need for stability is paramount.

Therefore, I think we should move heaven and earth to ensure Ross stays a Saints man and sits down with Pelchen and nuts out a plan to move this club forward.

No more panicking for this club. Had a gutful of that throughout the 80s and 90s!

While I don't like the way we go about it.... I sometimes feel like I'm watching soccer.

Stability is the key.

If we implode in the next 2 years we may not survive.

With the new teams coming in there is going to be a lot of uncertainty in the AFL.

We need stabilty to guide our way through it...

The next few years will be like when Hawke and Keating floated the dollar.

Short term potential kaos for long term gains.

[bergholt]

Just maybe we need assistant coaches with more power or influence, to have a bigger influence on the playing group. I really admired Terry Danaher when he was our forward coach, then our defensive coach, but I believe he was given the shove as he was seen as a threat to the Senior coach. (I could be wrong). Similarly I thought that Tudor and Silvagni did good jobs. But our current lot have no impressed, apart from Steven King as Ruck coach.

seriously mate, how would you even know from the outside?

[saintbrat]

possibly one of the reasons for sat loss was Tudor in the swans box.....
same as with Max at Pies,,

the little things that they could inform on if executed would be enough to put new spin on players.

[bigcarl]

This is not my view - but the opinion of a friend who has been a 40 year follower and decade long member of the Sainters;

etc

etc.

Very thought provoking post somaht.

I'm going to have a bob each way.

I like the stability Ross has brought to the club and the professionalism,
but the ultra defensive mindset and seeming inability to take risks frustrates me.

I've no doubt Walsh should have been given a run, even late in the season. He's a mature body, kicking goals for Sandringham and might have given us some sort of X factor going into the finals.

Instead, we stuck with a forward line that can best be described as a shambles, devoid of any structure, led by a bloke on one leg who struggles to put it on the board even when he wins the contest.

I thought on Saturday we started well and dominated the first quarter, everywhere but on the scoreboard. We fell down badly up forward.

Should have rolled the dice on Walsh.

All that said, I'm happy for Ross to stay.

But he needs to evolve and stop going back to the well ... with Riewoldt in particular. He's not the player he was.

He's been loaded up (and has loaded himself up) with so much pressure and expectation, that it is no surprise he has buckled under the weight.

So stay and make the changes and show some daring.

[Johnny Member]

That's the big issue though for me.

It's still one that torments me.


Our ultra defensive footy, the intense focus on 'stopping', the incredible discipline in carrying out the coaches orders, the ability for guys to play a role to the letter....has been a, if not the reason for our success.

But....

It's also been the biggest factor in our lack of success! The inability to score, the lack of skill, the lack of risk taking on-field, the lack of risk taking off it (ie. selection) and so on.


So which is it? Have we been thwarted by the coach and his mindset? Or is it the reason for our success so we need to keep him at all costs and let him try again with a new list?

[SainterK]

That's the big issue though for me.

It's still one that torments me.


Our ultra defensive footy, the intense focus on 'stopping', the incredible discipline in carrying out the coaches orders, the ability for guys to play a role to the letter....has been a, if not the reason for our success.

But....

It's also been the biggest factor in our lack of success! The inability to score, the lack of skill, the lack of risk taking on-field, the lack of risk taking off it (ie. selection) and so on.


So which is it? Have we been thwarted by the coach and his mindset? Or is it the reason for our success so we need to keep him at all costs and let him try again with a new list?

This year though, I thought they addressed some of this quite significantly, the quick play on...giving the forwards more opportunity?

Unfortunately though, it coincided with Nick carrying a terrible knee injury, and Kosi only getting out on the park for 12 weeks.

Hopefully they keep it it up over summer, work on their F50 entries and field kicking, and our big guys will be in better fitness to take advantage of (what I believe) was a neccessary tweak to the GP and will hopefully eventuate in a more balanced blend between attack and defence.