So what are you saying. He will try more because he is captain and will break down. I dont see how that would happen and if it did he shouldnt be playing for us.Loyally Numbed wrote:We just finished the season in 6th place and were easily punted out by the team that finished 7th.plugger66 wrote:We really do have pathetic supporters. I suppose every club does but do most clubs picke their captain weekly like we do. Is it Dal this week and then Chips ot BJ. Pathetic all of you. Yes you.
Yes, let's just leave everything as it is, for fear that it is being a "pathetic supporter", if you would like changes made.
You may have to come to terms with the fact that Rooey may have degenerative knee issues that will not allow him to reach the heights that he has risen to in the past, if this is the case, I would rather have his role changed to give him every opportunity to contribute to the side rather than, trying unsuccessfully to play a key position, leading the team, with all the pressure and expectations that, that imposes on him.
Would you rather he plays out his career with dignity and satisfaction or break down prematurely trying too hard to reach unobtainable physical heights?
Captaincy 2012
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3rd generation saint
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My problem isn't who will captain on 2012? Though I do think it may help Roo to be just a player next year, hopefully free of injury.
But who is our next generation captain for say 2013 and beyond.
To this stage we don't have seem to have any young players coming through who look like potential captains, unlike 8 years ago when we had Lenny, Roo, Kosi, BJ, Ball etc.
But who is our next generation captain for say 2013 and beyond.
To this stage we don't have seem to have any young players coming through who look like potential captains, unlike 8 years ago when we had Lenny, Roo, Kosi, BJ, Ball etc.
Except for the sanity nothing much has been lost.
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saintnick12
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Spinner
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groupie1 wrote:It's an entirely valid point, and we all remember the previous first-year-back from Lenny he was far from at his best. BUT, an optimist might point out the following:Spinner wrote:kalsaint wrote:BigMart wrote:So, if we had a different skipper tonight.....we would have done better??
The role is relevent.....but not critical
Maybe luke ball who kicks winning goals in finals, can take over
Leaadership and the key leader are critical to the sides ability to win games from bad situations. We havent had the influence seen in past years by Roo, Leeny (due to his absence) and Goddard (tagged a bit this year and didnt like it).
My choice is Lenny. His selfless acts on the field and direction is what the club needs.
Roo is a great leader to and should definitelty have influence but the midfield now needs the inspiration like in other top 8 clubs.
Memo. Lenny will be 32 next year coming off a knee reconstruction.
- There was a bloke a few years ago wearing number 35 coming back from two knee reconstructions and a broken leg at 32 who everyone wrote off... what was his name again?
- Lenny has returned from a knee reconstruction and played better footy since than before
- Lenny is not quick. He just might be the next R Harvey and go on for another 4 years
Who is the player that wore 35 had two knee recos and a broken leg? From St Kilda? Must have been quite a few years ago... I'm not that old.
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Spinner
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plugger66 wrote:We really do have pathetic supporters. I suppose every club does but do most clubs picke their captain weekly like we do. Is it Dal this week and then Chips ot BJ. Pathetic all of you. Yes you.
This.
All this thread shows is who has some idea about football and who has absolutely none.
A pity that one list is long and the other quite small. Limits quality discussion.
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older saint
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Ridiculous to me to say Roo should not be captain, unless he does not want it.
Does being captain make you play any better or try harder... if it does then that is an inditement on the individual and they are not a leader.
When we hear "captains goal" etc the same effort and performace would be there without the title. Usually performed by a champion player.
Role of the captain is within the group more at training as much as game day . Setting culture and standards and what is expected , as well as media etc .. We have no idea how that works within the group but based on success of the club ( not ultimate) you would have to say he has done a good job.
This bloke has taken us to 2 grand finals and a replay. He also has a number of prelim finals. He plays a year injured and time to take the title off him.. please.
If you based captain off performance for the year does that mean it should change each year?
Does being captain make you play any better or try harder... if it does then that is an inditement on the individual and they are not a leader.
When we hear "captains goal" etc the same effort and performace would be there without the title. Usually performed by a champion player.
Role of the captain is within the group more at training as much as game day . Setting culture and standards and what is expected , as well as media etc .. We have no idea how that works within the group but based on success of the club ( not ultimate) you would have to say he has done a good job.
This bloke has taken us to 2 grand finals and a replay. He also has a number of prelim finals. He plays a year injured and time to take the title off him.. please.
If you based captain off performance for the year does that mean it should change each year?
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Junction Oval
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After the year that Rooey has had, it's certainly a question worth discussing :
Pro's for a change :
Will enable Rooey to relax more and focus on himself.
Less personal media attention
Has been very "prickly" on the field at times this year.
A new era - a new captain.
Cons :
He is the true leader of the Club.
Perceived loss of support by the Club.
Who else :
Lenny - no certainty about his recovery and form at 31.
BJ - uncertainty about temperament??
Dal - popular, top player. Leadership ability?
Chips - solid, is the backline General. Leadership ability?
Other - how does Rooey feel? What does he have to say? What does the Coach & Club have to say?
Pro's for a change :
Will enable Rooey to relax more and focus on himself.
Less personal media attention
Has been very "prickly" on the field at times this year.
A new era - a new captain.
Cons :
He is the true leader of the Club.
Perceived loss of support by the Club.
Who else :
Lenny - no certainty about his recovery and form at 31.
BJ - uncertainty about temperament??
Dal - popular, top player. Leadership ability?
Chips - solid, is the backline General. Leadership ability?
Other - how does Rooey feel? What does he have to say? What does the Coach & Club have to say?
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InkerSaint
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Obviously haven't seen much of Melbourne this year spert.plugger66 wrote:What about Harley when Geelong last won the flag and what about Maxwell this year when they will win the flag.spert wrote:Probably the crappiest year by any captain I can think of.
STRENGTH THROUGH LOYALTY.
''I still get really excited, and I've got the '66 thing up on the wall in a frame … You look at it and think: one day, we want to achieve that.''- Arryn Siposs
''I still get really excited, and I've got the '66 thing up on the wall in a frame … You look at it and think: one day, we want to achieve that.''- Arryn Siposs
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spert
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Not really interested in Melbourne or any other club, just our club and the lack of leadership this year once Lenny went down.dcstkfc wrote:Obviously haven't seen much of Melbourne this year spert.plugger66 wrote:What about Harley when Geelong last won the flag and what about Maxwell this year when they will win the flag.spert wrote:Probably the crappiest year by any captain I can think of.
So it is the crapiest year of any Saints captain. I reckon there may be a few ahead of him. Also dont know your age but you have probably only seen about 6 captains.spert wrote:Not really interested in Melbourne or any other club, just our club and the lack of leadership this year once Lenny went down.dcstkfc wrote:Obviously haven't seen much of Melbourne this year spert.plugger66 wrote:What about Harley when Geelong last won the flag and what about Maxwell this year when they will win the flag.spert wrote:Probably the crappiest year by any captain I can think of.
Luke Ball was shite in 06plugger66 wrote:So it is the crapiest year of any Saints captain. I reckon there may be a few ahead of him. Also dont know your age but you have probably only seen about 6 captains.spert wrote:Not really interested in Melbourne or any other club, just our club and the lack of leadership this year once Lenny went down.dcstkfc wrote:Obviously haven't seen much of Melbourne this year spert.plugger66 wrote:What about Harley when Geelong last won the flag and what about Maxwell this year when they will win the flag.spert wrote:Probably the crappiest year by any captain I can think of.
STRENGTH THROUGH LOYALTY.
''I still get really excited, and I've got the '66 thing up on the wall in a frame … You look at it and think: one day, we want to achieve that.''- Arryn Siposs
''I still get really excited, and I've got the '66 thing up on the wall in a frame … You look at it and think: one day, we want to achieve that.''- Arryn Siposs
This time last year Dean Cox was finished...
He's now the likely AA ruckman and the leader of the best ruck combo in the comp...
He's fit...
Roo has struggled, not with the burden of being captain, but with the fact that he's clearly well below 100%.. Closer to 60% to use his words...
In some ways, it's a blessing we're out week one... Get him off to get his knee and whatever other niggles sorted out, rehab to 100% full fitness, and he'll explode next year back to AA CHF, no doubt about it...
I agree that our gameplan doesn't allow him to dominate the way a true power forward does, but that's not his game anyway... His game is his beautiful marking hands, aided by his relentless run and endeavor, his leap and his courage...
All elements are shot when his body can't hold up...
We've now found a spot for Kosi.. It's taken years, but he looks settled as McEvoy's floating wingman... Those 2 will evolve next year into a top level centre duo..
And with Lenny back, the on field leadership pressure on Roo will be eased... He won't feel like he has to do it all, on one leg no less like this year... But there's no need for Lenny to be VC either... He's a leader no matter his title...
For Roo, this has been the year from hell... It's over, and this time next year, it'll be like it never happened...
2012-
Captain - Roo
VC - Goddard
Deputy - McEvoy
The sky will not fall, and we will bounce back from this, on the back of no.12...
He's now the likely AA ruckman and the leader of the best ruck combo in the comp...
He's fit...
Roo has struggled, not with the burden of being captain, but with the fact that he's clearly well below 100%.. Closer to 60% to use his words...
In some ways, it's a blessing we're out week one... Get him off to get his knee and whatever other niggles sorted out, rehab to 100% full fitness, and he'll explode next year back to AA CHF, no doubt about it...
I agree that our gameplan doesn't allow him to dominate the way a true power forward does, but that's not his game anyway... His game is his beautiful marking hands, aided by his relentless run and endeavor, his leap and his courage...
All elements are shot when his body can't hold up...
We've now found a spot for Kosi.. It's taken years, but he looks settled as McEvoy's floating wingman... Those 2 will evolve next year into a top level centre duo..
And with Lenny back, the on field leadership pressure on Roo will be eased... He won't feel like he has to do it all, on one leg no less like this year... But there's no need for Lenny to be VC either... He's a leader no matter his title...
For Roo, this has been the year from hell... It's over, and this time next year, it'll be like it never happened...
2012-
Captain - Roo
VC - Goddard
Deputy - McEvoy
The sky will not fall, and we will bounce back from this, on the back of no.12...
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St. Luke
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I think Goddard.
Poor Rooey has other issues to contend with next season without the added burden of the captaincy. The bloke tries his guts out week after week with a stuffed knee and form issues bugging him. He's a true champion and has taken alot on his shoulders, but I fear it's impacting his own form.
Poor Rooey has other issues to contend with next season without the added burden of the captaincy. The bloke tries his guts out week after week with a stuffed knee and form issues bugging him. He's a true champion and has taken alot on his shoulders, but I fear it's impacting his own form.
When they created LENNY HAYES (in the shadow of Harvs) they forgot to break the mold (again)- hence the Supremely Incredible Jack Steven!!
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Loyally Numbed
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It's about managing him, as Captain and key forward, he's always going to want to, in his mind, do the right thing, and get on the field and bust his guts, regardless of how much pain he's in, that's the sort of bloke that he is, a champion.plugger66 wrote:So what are you saying. He will try more because he is captain and will break down. I dont see how that would happen and if it did he shouldnt be playing for us.Loyally Numbed wrote:We just finished the season in 6th place and were easily punted out by the team that finished 7th.plugger66 wrote:We really do have pathetic supporters. I suppose every club does but do most clubs picke their captain weekly like we do. Is it Dal this week and then Chips ot BJ. Pathetic all of you. Yes you.
Yes, let's just leave everything as it is, for fear that it is being a "pathetic supporter", if you would like changes made.
You may have to come to terms with the fact that Rooey may have degenerative knee issues that will not allow him to reach the heights that he has risen to in the past, if this is the case, I would rather have his role changed to give him every opportunity to contribute to the side rather than, trying unsuccessfully to play a key position, leading the team, with all the pressure and expectations that, that imposes on him.
Would you rather he plays out his career with dignity and satisfaction or break down prematurely trying too hard to reach unobtainable physical heights?
IF his knees(s) are not quite up to it, the hierarchy should, sit him down and explain to him that they are going to relieve him of the Captaincy, use him in a different role, maybe a link off the wing or half back, rotate him a lot for the first few games to allow him to, hopefully, recover to a point where he can ease back into a primary role in the team.
It's about psychological, as well as physical management, if nothing is done, based on this years example, he will continue to play when he probably shouldn't, his form will again suffer and the frustration will only worsen, not the ideal scenario, for himself or the team.
Like I said he is a Champion Player and a Champion human being, but sometimes that can make you your own worst enemy, for all the right reasons.
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Con Gorozidis
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