Baker didnt retire

plugger66 · Sun 11 Sep 2011 12:15pm

mullet wrote:So we assume then that Ross is staying. Why would he push out players if he didnt need to.

Every club says "retire" it is meant to be diplomatic.

it is not a lie, it is being kind.

Just because players are being delisted doesnt mean RL is staying. Pelchan would be in charge of that with RL helping out. And coaches can use other words instead of delisting. He could have said we arent going forward with Bakes and Mini next season.

saintnick12 · Sun 11 Sep 2011 12:20pm

plugger66 wrote:
mullet wrote:So we assume then that Ross is staying. Why would he push out players if he didnt need to.

Every club says "retire" it is meant to be diplomatic.

it is not a lie, it is being kind.
Just because players are being delisted doesnt mean RL is staying. Pelchan would be in charge of that with RL helping out. And coaches can use other words instead of delisting. He could have said we arent going forward with Bakes and Mini next season.

Agree its got nothing to do with whether Ross is staying or going. Decisions made by a panel at most clubs as explained by Brad Scott on Insider during the week. Coach alone may look too much to the now. Panel ensures they take a more balanced approach. An improvement from the GT days. He had already told Milne... Now coach can't do that on his own.
Hopefully decision re Ross will be made soon - not good for the club having that hanging over them and if he does go it needs to be asap.

ando051 · Post: # 1135490Post **ando051** » Sun 11 Sep 2011 12:32pm

There has been 3 favourite players from other clubs that have "retired" this year. Cornes, Brogan from Port and Power from Brisbane at least 2 of them will put there boots on next year for GWS. Of course they were pushed from junior developing squad. But the sensible thing for the clubs and player to say was they retired.

If Bakes still thinks he has a couple of seasons in him, nominate for the pre season draft. He has been a great and loyal servant to our club, but he has had his time now for a younger kid to have a go.

Eastern · Post: # 1135508Post **Eastern** » Sun 11 Sep 2011 12:41pm

The way I see it:

Bakes was told some time ago that he was not going to be offered another contract. Bakes didn't like what he was told. The club tried to talk him into retiring. Bakes wanted nothing of that. The club tried to "soften" the blow (to both Bakes & the club) by announcing that he had retired. Bakes then cracked the chyts with the club.

It's unfortunate and I hope that the relationship between Bakes & the club can be repaired.

And finally; Bakes, Good Luck with your future endeavours !!

dcstkfc · Post: # 1135524Post **dcstkfc** » Sun 11 Sep 2011 12:49pm

A messy and shameful end from both ends.

matrix · Post: # 1135527Post **matrix** » Sun 11 Sep 2011 12:49pm

off to the filth as a fitness coach

saintslegendLH · Sun 11 Sep 2011 12:54pm

"Thanks for your support... but let me make it clear, I did not retire! I am 23 and feel like I still have a lot to give at AFL level," Eddy tweeted. from the afl website.

clearly Eddy is pissed as well.

desertsaint · Sun 11 Sep 2011 12:55pm

i'm a bit torn over this. a champ like baker should be allowed the dignity of announcing his retirement himself.
if he didn't make the call himself why would ross make it for him. he has no right to do so. it's dismissive and disrespectful. simply tell the truth. he wasn't offered a new contract.
poor form imo.

Eastern · Post: # 1135555Post **Eastern** » Sun 11 Sep 2011 1:10pm

desertsaint wrote:i'm a bit torn over this. a champ like baker should be allowed the dignity of announcing his retirement himself.if he didn't make the call himself why would ross make it for him. he has no right to do so. it's dismissive and disrespectful. simply tell the truth. he wasn't offered a new contract.
poor form imo.

It sounds like Bakes didn't want to accept that its all over. If thats the case, its a very difficult situation for the club as they would want to be seen as showing Bakes the respect he deserves !!

Johnny Member · Sun 11 Sep 2011 1:21pm

joffaboy wrote:Delisted, retired, who cares?

GWS probably would!

meher baba · Sun 11 Sep 2011 1:22pm

The whole thing has been a shemozzle in PR terms. Why was it so desperately important last night to announce the retirements of players wh didn't play? Fair enough if a player runs off the field and immediately announces their retirement. But why does a 23 yo rookie like Eddy have to have his retirement announced on game night? And is it usual for a coach to announce these things?

Just speculating, but does this actually mean Ross is going to the Dees and wanted to say goodbye to these 4?

Johnny Member · Sun 11 Sep 2011 1:23pm

meher baba wrote:The whole thing has been a shemozzle in PR terms. Why was it so desperately important last night to announce the retirements of players wh didn't play? Fair enough if a player runs off the field and immediately announces their retirement. But why does a 23 yo rookie like Eddy have to have his retirement announced on game night? And is it usual for a coach to announce these things?

Just speculating, but does this actually mean Ross is going to the Dees and wanted to say goodbye to these 4?

He might have said goodbye to the whole squad in the huddle after the game!

InkerSaint · Sun 11 Sep 2011 1:24pm

saintslegendLH wrote:"Thanks for your support... but let me make it clear, I did not retire! I am 23 and feel like I still have a lot to give at AFL level," Eddy tweeted. from the afl website.

clearly Eddy is pissed as well.

In Eddy's case it's fair enough that he doesn't want the wrong message sent out to prospective clubs.

Perhaps he thinks he has a better chance this year with an expanded comp and a shallow draft, given that he could have been picked up by a rival club last year.

chook23 · Post: # 1135575Post **chook23** » Sun 11 Sep 2011 1:26pm

meher baba wrote:The whole thing has been a shemozzle in PR terms. Why was it so desperately important last night to announce the retirements of players wh didn't play? Fair enough if a player runs off the field and immediately announces their retirement. But why does a 23 yo rookie like Eddy have to have his retirement announced on game night? And is it usual for a coach to announce these things?

Just speculating, but does this actually mean Ross is going to the Dees and wanted to say goodbye to these 4?

Not unusual to announce/recognize contribution in fron of playing team/other teamates/staff and officials in room after exit from finals such as this.

Johnny Member · Sun 11 Sep 2011 1:26pm

InkerSaint wrote:
saintslegendLH wrote:"Thanks for your support... but let me make it clear, I did not retire! I am 23 and feel like I still have a lot to give at AFL level," Eddy tweeted. from the afl website.

clearly Eddy is pissed as well.
In Eddy's case it's fair enough that he doesn't want the wrong message sent out to prospective clubs.

Perhaps he thinks he has a better chance this year with an expanded comp and a shallow draft, given that he could have been picked up by a rival club last year.

Exactly.

Even for Bakes, with the current GWS situation, any player of any age or ability would be off their nut to declare to the footy world that they're walking away from the game for good!

desertsaint · Sun 11 Sep 2011 1:27pm

Eastern wrote:
desertsaint wrote:i'm a bit torn over this. a champ like baker should be allowed the dignity of announcing his retirement himself.if he didn't make the call himself why would ross make it for him. he has no right to do so. it's dismissive and disrespectful. simply tell the truth. he wasn't offered a new contract.
poor form imo.
It sounds like Bakes didn't want to accept that its all over. If thats the case, its a very difficult situation for the club as they would want to be seen as showing Bakes the respect he deserves !!

agreed it is difficult, but why announce it when it is a lie?

the club could have said that it had retired baker.

matrix · Post: # 1135578Post **matrix** » Sun 11 Sep 2011 1:28pm

agree with desert

kinda odd

meher baba · Sun 11 Sep 2011 1:32pm

chook23 wrote:
meher baba wrote:The whole thing has been a shemozzle in PR terms. Why was it so desperately important last night to announce the retirements of players wh didn't play? Fair enough if a player runs off the field and immediately announces their retirement. But why does a 23 yo rookie like Eddy have to have his retirement announced on game night? And is it usual for a coach to announce these things?

Just speculating, but does this actually mean Ross is going to the Dees and wanted to say goodbye to these 4?
Not unusual to announce/recognize contribution in fron of playing team/other teamates/staff and officials in room after exit from finals such as this.

Recognize contribution, sure. But wouldn't that normally be after the player has announced his retirement himself? And surely not if, as in the case of Eddy, he doesn't want to retire and is actively looking for another club. Can you give me another example of when this has happened?

Johnny Member · Sun 11 Sep 2011 1:35pm

In all honesty, does it matter?

Bakes is a long time favourite of mine, in my opinion he's a genuine great of the club.

But, unless the club was going to do the old 'Stewie Loewe handing the jumper over to Kosi thing' (which although short lived, was an awesome initiative by the club and an amazing spectacle to witness), then really what's the difference?

He's pushed out - everyone knows that. It'd be nice that they agreed to the wording of it, but really does it matter?

Having said that, perhaps we've been really poor in handling the 'exiting out' of our champions under Ross Lyon? Obviously Max comes to mind, and how his departure impacted us when perhaps if his 'delisting' was handled better, it may not have?

Then again, is it ever easy for any club moving on champions of the club when clearly they don't think they're done yet?

markp · Post: # 1135591Post **markp** » Sun 11 Sep 2011 1:45pm

Lyon said at the presser "within the rooms we just acknowledged the retirements of... "

I'm pretty sure those players would've been there and accepted it... should he have said de-listings/departure??... seriously, who gives a shyte, we just got totally rolled and we need to make some massive calls, these were the very least of them, bigger things to worry about than the proper etiquette of announcing the showing of the door to players who cant see the writing on the wall and accept that they are done.

Thinline · Post: # 1135594Post **Thinline** » Sun 11 Sep 2011 1:49pm

I think players jumping on twitter to bitch is the height of f****** disrespect to an institution that has served them incredibly well for a long period.

Any sportsman who thinks they have a right to another deal 'just because' is a fool. Any sportsman who doesn't know when the cards are stacked is an even bigger one.

Sad and unnecessary way for two genuine footsoldiers to depart. Leaves a sour taste.

Eastern · Post: # 1135598Post **Eastern** » Sun 11 Sep 2011 1:50pm

markp wrote:Lyon said at the presser "within the rooms we just acknowledged the retirements of... "

I'm pretty sure those players would've been there and accepted it... should he have said de-listings/departure??... seriously, who gives a shyte, we just got totally rolled and we need to make some massive calls, these were the very least of them, bigger things to worry about than the proper etiquette of announcing the showing of the door to players who cant see the writing on the wall and accept that they are done.

Exactly

Ross Lyon & Chris Pelchen are paid big bucks to make big decisions !!

saintbrat · Post: # 1135605Post **saintbrat** » Sun 11 Sep 2011 1:56pm

Doc Larkins saying he was in the room
and the 'farewell' was to him very well handled

and that there was deliberate sequence of speakers.- with Bakes looking uncomfortable- and he took it as sadness......

Lenny- HIS best mate- spoke to him...

defintely not closed doors, and done before press conferance

sainter#4 · Post: # 1135608Post **sainter#4** » Sun 11 Sep 2011 1:57pm

for what its worth i saw bakes and milney back in may,bakes back then told me if this is his last year with the saints then he will go around again with GWS in 2012.

didnt bother posting it because people shoot you down here on this forum

meher baba · Sun 11 Sep 2011 1:57pm

Thinline wrote:I think players jumping on twitter to bitch is the height of f****** disrespect to an institution that has served them incredibly well for a long period.

Any sportsman who thinks they have a right to another deal 'just because' is a fool. Any sportsman who doesn't know when the cards are stacked is an even bigger one.

Sad and unnecessary way for two genuine footsoldiers to depart. Leaves a sour taste.

Rubbish. There is no excuse for announcing to a room full of people that someone is "retiring" when they might have plans to go elsewhere. This has reputational and potentially even taxation impacts. It's total crap and you wouldn't put up with it if it happened to you.

When I've forcibly "retired" people I have consulted them closely about what form of words is used. If there is disagreement about this, I have said as little as I possibly can.