Plunge on Lyon to coach Dee's.

[jonesy]

I hope he doesn't walk.

He traded away for a shot at a flag,which I was behind 100%. However it didn't work (due to freak bad luck and poor kicking),now the list is in need of some hard work..... it wouldn't be right if he walked out on that and left it for someone else to clean up his dirty work

Ross is one of the premium coaches in the land. Where do we go if he walks. We will most probably have to go for an untried newbie unless Malthouse or Roos can be swayed,and with a fading list and diminishing support,I would worry about our future again after a decade of hard work turning things around

[Moccha]

I must say that I for one am very concerned that Ross will indeed go, for the following reasons:

1.) There is virtually no doubt whatsoever that Melbourne will indeed offer a massive biscuit to Ross. Bigger than what we will offer him, so on pure contractual terms, Melbourne will be a better option for him.

2.) I just get a nagging sense from watching Ross's presser after the Carlton game that he's weighing it up in his mind and that he's feeling that the best of what the relationship between he and St.Kilda is behind him. Go back and watch that press conference and look at the way he separates himself from the players and the club, there's something not right there. Or he could just be tired.

I think there is no doubt that Ross will think long and hard about it, and I just get the feeling that he may decide in the end to take the offer and the new challenge of Melbourne.

Meanwhile we'll be left in the lurch.

Where the F*** are Melbourne gonna get the money from or is the AFL going to bankroll them - again?

[Sainternist]

If we are a genuine chance for next year, why one earth would RL take off to another club which has to rebuild?

Don't worry, it ain't gonna happen people.

[meher baba]

This will probably reinforce the prejudices of those on here who reckon ive still got an anti-Ross agenda (which I haven't had since mid-2008, but that doesn't seem to stop them).

Anyway, I just want to agree with those posters who don't think it will be the end of the world if (and I think its very unlikely) Ross chooses to go.

I neither know nor care if Geelong fans have a forum like this one. But, if they do, I bet there were threads like this one a year ago re Bomber going to the Bombers and how they'd be left in the lurch, etc. And they were losing GA jnr too.

Would the Cats fans want it any different now? Bomber who?

Scott has been like a fresh breeze through the club. A year is a long, long time in football.

[elvis lives]

Anyone who watched footy classified last night would have to be a little concerned. G Lyon claimed he couldn't say anything but clearly intimated there was something to say on the matter and could not wipe the smile off his face. Replays of the Carlton presser and r Lyon wistfully reminiscing about what the saints have achieved over his tenure was not particularly reassuring either.

And if whichever betting agency it was suspended betting over 4 bets totalling $130, I will go he for tiggy

[bigcarl]

Anyone who watched footy classified last night would have to be a little concerned. G Lyon claimed he couldn't say anything but clearly intimated there was something to say on the matter and could not wipe the smile off his face. Replays of the Carlton presser and r Lyon wistfully reminiscing about what the saints have achieved over his tenure was not particularly reassuring either.

And if whichever betting agency it was suspended betting over 4 bets totalling $130, I will go he for tiggy

That does it. I'm officially worried.

The club's silence on the matter adds to the concern.

[lyonhearted]

If Melbourne has approached Ross Lyon, and that appears to be the case, then I think it's really poor form for any club to be trying to poach a coach from another team when:-

a) that coach is not coming out of contract (Ross obviously has another year)
b) the team involved is preparing for a finals serious (unnecessary distraction)

Ross is well within his rights to quit, apparently he has an out clause in his contract that allows him to walk at any time (not sure who's idea that was??) but I'd be really disappointed if he did go and I'd be pissed off with Melbourne for being so unethical. Bring in a tosser like Garry Lyon and I guess you'd expect no less.

My gut feel is that he will go from what I've seen in the media, but I just hope that Rossy stays because I still rate him as in the best 2 or 3 coaches in the game and he would be REALLY hard to replace.

PS. Really hope now that Scully goes to GWS, let them get a taste of their own medicine.

[Johnny Member]

I think it's a misconception that he cannot develop youth, when in fact nobody really knows if he can or not?

But after 5 years at a club, isn't that a worry?

In my opinion, Jack Steven is the only young player under Lyon's tenure that has done anything beyond what you expect to happen naturally via physical and mental maturity.

And considering we've just finished 6th, about 4 games away from the top 4, I think we need to be careful what we define as 'success' when using the 'but why would you blood kids when we've been successful' excuse.

This year, with the key talent we have on our list, has been surely nothing more than average (to this point).


Personally, I'd like Lyon to be our coach forever. But, really I wouldn't be too bothered if he left.

[joffaboy]

This will probably reinforce the prejudices of those on here who reckon ive still got an anti-Ross agenda (which I haven't had since mid-2008, but that doesn't seem to stop them).

Anyway, I just want to agree with those posters who don't think it will be the end of the world if (and I think its very unlikely) Ross chooses to go.

I neither know nor care if Geelong fans have a forum like this one. But, if they do, I bet there were threads like this one a year ago re Bomber going to the Bombers and how they'd be left in the lurch, etc. And they were losing GA jnr too.

Would the Cats fans want it any different now? Bomber who?

Scott has been like a fresh breeze through the club. A year is a long, long time in football.

Thompson had been at Geelong ten years and had won two flags for the club, Lyon has been at the Saints for less than five season and we haven't won a cracker.

A substantial difference one would have thought.

but we all know you hate Lyon mb

[Mr Magic]

I have no idea whether Lyon will go or not.

My heart says that what we are seeing is a load of 'trumped up' nonsense on slow news days.
Interestingly most of the current rumours seem to have started from this new (and virtually unknown) website, so who knows if it has any credibility in 'breaking' stories.

IF he does decide to go, then we will replace him with somebody who I'm sure will do a good job.
It's only 5 years since we appointed a Sydney assistant and many media and fans questioned the appointment.
Now, apparently, the football world (media and fans alike) consider that appointee to be one of the best coaches in the AFL.

Who's to say that if he does decide to leave that the next caoch we appoint won't alos be a 'beauty'?
One thing is for certain though, many fans and some sections of the media will decry whomever we appoint just for the hell of it.

ANd if he does decide to leave for another Club, then I'm assuming all his key staff will leave also?
Medicos
Fitness
Physios
etc?

Mike Sheahan seems to enjoy writing 'negative' articles about us this season. Maybe it has more to do with sections of our Club not paying him the 'proper respect' he thinks he so richly deserves?

What is today's article actually based on?
Pure supposition?
Rumours?
Wishful thinking?

One of the few 'facts' contained in it is that Michael Nettlefold 'didn't return his calls'.
How dare he!
Who the hell does he think he is?
Doesn't he know that if Mike SHeahan calls, he must immediately return the call?
Afterall, Mike Sheahan is the 'pre-eminent' football writer for the Hun, the AFL paper.

[joffaboy]

But after 5 years at a club, isn't that a worry?

Why? Wasn't he trying to win a premiership? Didn't we make it to the big show in 09 and 10 on the backl of his best players

In my opinion, Jack Steven is the only young player under Lyon's tenure that has done anything beyond what you expect to happen naturally via physical and mental maturity.

And thats your opinion, however players like Dempster, Polo, Gwilt, Big Mac, Raph and even Armo are now integral parts of the team and are playing their best football to date.

they have all developed under Lyon. I dont buy this natural physical and mental maturity. if thats the case we dont need a coach at all, as all players just naturally get to their level.

Strange assumption one would think.

And considering we've just finished 6th, about 4 games away from the top 4, I think we need to be careful what we define as 'success' when using the 'but why would you blood kids when we've been successful' excuse.

Yes i agree. This season has not been a success, thats why so many young players got churned early on. Too bad the likes of Sipposs, Ledger, and Cripps got injured as we would have seen much more of them this year.

This year, with the key talent we have on our list, has been surely nothing more than average (to this point).

I think, it has been about right for the talent level of our list compared to the likes of Collingwood, Hawthorn and Geelong (even WCE). Thats why we saw so many debutants. Lyon knows we aren't the team that we were in 09 and 10, that we need new blood (unfortunateluy most got injured) coming in, and why Pelchen will be instrumental in revitalising the list.

Personally, I'd like Lyon to be our coach forever. But, really I wouldn't be too bothered if he left.

Yes, agreed. I would fall at his feet and beg him to stay if we had of got over the line in 09 or 10, but we are stil looking for that flag.

[Johnny Member]

The positive here is that I don't believe we'll die wondering, should Lyon leave.

If we'd been terrible when he arrived, then made a steady climb up the ladder and were on the verge of something great then he left - it'd be very different. I'd feel like we were being robbed of something and always wonder what might have been had he not deserted us.


But now, in my opinion of course, we're on the way down. It sort of feels to me, that it's as much of an unknown what we'll get from Lyon in a rebuild phase as what we'd get from someone else.

He's surely earnt the right of refusal though, so he should get first option. But as I said, if le leaves I won't lose any sleep at all.

I started losing sleep about our short-medium term future at about R5 this year!

[tony74]

Sam Fisher beiny interviewed on SEN at the moment stated that Ross told the playing group last week he was not going anywhere. He also said Lenny's fine

[Mr Magic]

Sam Fisher beiny interviewed on SEN at the moment stated that Ross told the playing group last week he was not going anywhere. He also said Lenny's fine

That settles it - he's definitley going!

Afterall, what would the players know compared to rumours being spread by nuffies and others with a vested interest (cue mike Sheahan and his vested interest in having something to bas an article on)

[Johnny Member]

But after 5 years at a club, isn't that a worry?

Why? Wasn't he trying to win a premiership? Didn't we make it to the big show in 09 and 10 on the backl of his best players

Yes, we did. But Geelong are flying this year and have still managed to slot in young guys who have given them some depth and unknown heading into the finals.

Basically, if Geelong lose a good senior player or two next year they won't have to debut guys and cross their fingers as to whether or not they can play.
They already know where they're at. It's gives them depth, it gives them a better idea of their list requirements next year, and it also gives the kid some trade value if they've played an eye catching game or two whilst being carried by the champion veterans.


I've always believed the best time to get experience into kids, to blood them, to give them a chance, is when you're playing good footy and your experienced good players are on the park.
It makes it so much easier for the young guy to come in and play a small cameo role.

I think Lyon missed that chance.


Having said that though, I don't think he does 'cameos'. I don't think you can come in to Lyon's team and play a cameo. His game plan and philosophy on footy doesn't work like that.

You come in and play a role. 99% of the time, a hard body and mature mind is required to play one of Lyon's roles.

He also seems obsessed with a settled team. He doesn't like to change the team at all if he doesn't have to. I can't argue with that. Hisotyr shows that settled teams are successful ones.


So I get why he didn't try to introduce guys that much over the past couple of years, and he came so close to pinching a flag twice that I'm not really going to argue!

I see both sides of the 'play the kids' debate.

In my opinion, Jack Steven is the only young player under Lyon's tenure that has done anything beyond what you expect to happen naturally via physical and mental maturity.

And thats your opinion, however players like Dempster, Polo, Gwilt, Big Mac, Raph and even Armo are now integral parts of the team and are playing their best football to date.

they have all developed under Lyon. I dont buy this natural physical and mental maturity. if thats the case we dont need a coach at all, as all players just naturally get to their level.

Strange assumption one would think.

No, that's not what I'm saying.


Young players get better. They simply do. A 70kg 18yo will improve as a footballer when he's 85kg, 21 and has played 20 games.

It's just natural. Like anything.


Developing them into something better than merely natural progression due to experience and maturity is what a coach needs to do.

Stevens is the only one that is better beyond what I expected him to be, outside of him getting fitter and stronger and having more experience.


The guys you've mentioned, were all senior footballers when Lyon arrived (obviously Armitage and McEvoy aside). So they're not what I'm talking about.
Although McEvoy is a good example I think, because he's basically exactly what everyone thought he'd be when he put on 15kgs and played an extra 30 games. He's not better than that - he still gets beaten by good ruckman, but can break even or win against poor ones. So I couldn't use him as a case for the 'Ross Lyon Can Develop Kids' side of the debate.

If/when we rebuild, I'm assuming it will done via the Draft. And this is what I think people talk about when they say 'there's no evidence to suggest Lyon can rebuild'.

He can add to a team with guys like Polo etc. and plug holes, but that's not how you rebuild.

You need to find kids, and develop them to a point where they are the team. Lyon's proven to be good at getting a champion core of players, teaching them the way he wants footy played, then recruiting experienced players to plug the holes around them and create a great team.

He's good at that. But can he actually build that 'core of champions' from scratch that's required to win our next flag? That's the debate.



As I've said before, there's no evidence to prove that he can't, but there's certainly no proof that he can either.

But again, he surely has earnt the first right of refusal.

[Johnny Member]

Having said everyting I've said, I'm starting to think that it's becoming quite important that we keep him.

It'd be a pretty significant statement to the footy world about who the Saints are these days.

And vice versa, it'd be fodder for the press should we lose a 'good' person.

[dragit]

File next to…
"Past hero Luke Ball turned traitor scum of the earth"

Walking out on the club with a year to go would be disgraceful and I just don't see him doing it, he's a smart bloke and there will be another coaching gig for him after the Saints whenever that will be…

He should speak to Plough about walking out on a club for money…

[samoht]

I too am of the view that the kids develop naturally as they build stamina and put on weight and as they get more games under their belt.

Our achilles heel is lack of forward pressure (tackling , chasing etc..) - and I feel that RL has failed as a coach to extract the necessary amount of forward pressure and to up the anti in that area.
Maybe the mix of players (maybe he should have considered a quicker tall forward in Walsh etc.. ?) is not right or their attitude/work ethic is not right - but whatever it is a great coach would have prioritised it and solved it, he would have left no stone unturned.

Collingwood applied 38 F50 tackles to our paltry 11 in GF2 and we have failed to improve our tackling count and effective chase this year .. we may even have gone backwards.. that's an indictment right there.
A great coach gets results... especially in areas that need improvement.

[saintbrat]

interesting how a rumour floated by journos floating ideas has been taken by more journos fed by player managers ( one in particular P.C.) and is now taken as fact and has turned into how badly a coach is coaching in some aspects.


FACT: Sam Fisher, Jason Blake, Nick Dal Santo, Ross Lyon, etc have all stated that he will be Coaching the Saints next year as per his contract...

mmmm
the silly season is approaching.
it is Tuesday and then Tomorrow is Wednesday- only 8 teams left so we can assume more wild thoeries to come..

[spert]

RL has done a great job to drag us into the finals, and hopefully we win four more games and he stays, though I suspect if we drop out of the finals, RL will have good think, as it will be a case of three GFs and no silverware, and I don't think coaches hang around after that scenario, so he may look at a new challenge and five years of financial security elsewhere, but I prefer he stays a couple more years with us.

[samoht]

RL has done a great job to drag us into the finals, and hopefully we win four more games and he stays, though I suspect if we drop out of the finals, RL will have good think, as it will be a case of three GFs and no silverware, and I don't think coaches hang around after that scenario, so he may look at a new challenge and five years of financial security elsewhere, but I prefer he stays a couple more years with us.

How about the challenges that he still has at St Kilda - like upping the forward pressure ?
Too hard for the master coach ?

[gringo]

Lyon's best quality is as a manager. He gets defined roles for players taking their abilities and putting them in the best position to utilise them. He took over the Saints after our core had been playing exciting footy but ultimately unsuccessful. He got them to follow his stifling mantra because they had tried the other way and realised there was more to it. Melbourne is not even in the exciting phase yet, they will be harder to sway into his conservative model. I can see a Dennis Pagan situation coming. Saints sue Melbourne for unsettling them in the finals and breaching contract. They pay their 92% salary cap and lose some guns. Ross takes their entire footy department spend with Schwab and Gary Lyon putting their beaks in at every opportunity. Smells horrible to me. We should help him out by offering huge front end contracts to Tapscott, Jurrah and Frawley Luke Ball style. Take our coach and feel the pain of hells fire demon scum. On a new coach, I think with Ross we have a known quantity. We can't afford another Watson, Blight or Dean Bailey stuff up.

[matrix]

if he goes
we're f***ed

[dcstkfc]

if he goes
we're f***ed

It has the potential to be crippling. Is this club incapable of keeping a coach for more than 5 years!!!

[Dr Spaceman]

RL has done a great job to drag us into the finals, and hopefully we win four more games and he stays, though I suspect if we drop out of the finals, RL will have good think, as it will be a case of three GFs and no silverware, and I don't think coaches hang around after that scenario, so he may look at a new challenge and five years of financial security elsewhere, but I prefer he stays a couple more years with us.

How about the challenges that he still has at St Kilda - like upping the forward pressure ?
Too hard for the master coach ?

Coaches don't normally leave in these circumstances (ie leave a club that's doing well, and that wants him to stay).

Doesn't send a good message to the players of his new team for starters. Would make it even harder to convince a Demonic Luke Ball that he should "ignore his pursuiters, knock back the bucks and stay loyal to the team".