Lets remove the Grandstand from Riewoldt

[SainterK]

I was shot down on here last year for suggesting he needed to be relieved of some of the pressure he carries at the club...he back then, looked like a guy who was weighted down with expectation.

Needed someone else to decide what was best for him, because he (IMO) was not capable of making that decision.

He will always desire to lead.

I just don't think it would hurt for for him to follow for a change, how incredibly free he would feel.

[ThomasR]

I think the hammy he did last year is often glossed over too quickly in these types of discussions. Before that he was absolutely flying and in my mind the best player in the comp. He is a lot slower in his acceleration these days, unable to gain the extra yard or two on his opponent and thus nudged under the ball at most contests, good delivery or bad delivery. Cannot fault his effort and work rate but while we hope his problems are mental and can be worked through I'm concerned that we have seen physically the best of him. That said I would still have him in my side every day of the week and I doubt there is a team that wouldn't.

[bobmurray]

He'll still get his mill so it shouldn't bother him too much.....

You've got to be joking? You reckon Rooey wouldn't give up three quarters of that for a premiership?



Yeah it's all about the money for Roo, he doesn't care at all...

What's all that crap got to do with giving up the captaincy which was what i was replying to.......how many numpties are there on here

[plugger66]

It makes sense that being Captain is making Rooy play poorly. it couldnt just be he is out of form. There must be other reasons so lets go with the captaincy. What is BJ's excuse? He he captain as well.

[SaintPav]

What is BJ's excuse? He he captain as well.

Runny poo?

[spert]

Let's not get too scientific- Roo is plainly a player out of form and that's for him and coach to sort out. Who would we put at CHF in his place?? Maybe Walsh, but the cupboard is reasonably bare.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I was shot down on here last year for suggesting he needed to be relieved of some of the pressure he carries at the club...he back then, looked like a guy who was weighted down with expectation.

Needed someone else to decide what was best for him, because he (IMO) was not capable of making that decision.

He will always desire to lead.

I just don't think it would hurt for for him to follow for a change, how incredibly free he would feel.

We were as one on that one last year and I've seen nothing this year to suggest that it wouldn't have been beneficial for him to have had that load taken off his shoulders this year. I think he now needs the responsibilities of captaincy like he needs a hole in the head. He just seems to have far too much to deal with and it's no surprise whatsoever that his form has dropped off.
Just look at what it already seems to have done for Ricky Ponting. He already seems to have his energy and zest back and I think he commented the other day on how nice it has been to be able to just relax for the past few months, without having to deal with all the captaincy duties and responsibilities. He's now just back to making runs and is still very valuable to Clarke, with his insights and experience and advice when needed.
I expect it would have the same sort of effect on Nick and it would take a heap of pressure off his kicking for goal, especially, as he'll no longer be likely to think "I'm the captain, I have to kick this goal". It's almost getting cringeworthy watching him kick for goal in crucial moments of games now and the opposition must just grow an extra leg when they see him spray it out on the full, to the cheers and laughter of their fans.
Nick can still provide leadership and inspiration (as Lenny has done in recent years), without the added responsibilities of captaincy.
If we want him to get back to playing his best footy, relieving him of the captaincy duties and responsibilities will certainly help with that, IMHO.

[plugger66]

I was shot down on here last year for suggesting he needed to be relieved of some of the pressure he carries at the club...he back then, looked like a guy who was weighted down with expectation.

Needed someone else to decide what was best for him, because he (IMO) was not capable of making that decision.

He will always desire to lead.

I just don't think it would hurt for for him to follow for a change, how incredibly free he would feel.

We were as one on that one last year and I've seen nothing this year to suggest that it wouldn't have been beneficial for him to have had that load taken off his shoulders this year. I think he now needs the responsibilities of captaincy like he needs a hole in the head. He just seems to have far too much to deal with and it's no surprise whatsoever that his form has dropped off.
Just look at what it already seems to have done for Ricky Ponting. He already seems to have his energy and zest back and I think he commented the other day on how nice it has been to be able to just relax for the past few months, without having to deal with all the captaincy duties and responsibilities. He's now just back to making runs and is still very valuable to Clarke, with his insights and experience and advice when needed.
I expect it would have the same sort of effect on Nick and it would take a heap of pressure off his kicking for goal, especially, as he'll no longer be likely to think "I'm the captain, I have to kick this goal". It's almost getting cringeworthy watching him kick for goal in crucial moments of games now and the opposition must just grow an extra leg when they see him spray it out on the full, to the cheers and laughter of their fans.
Nick can still provide leadership and inspiration (as Lenny has done in recent years), without the added responsibilities of captaincy.
If we want him to get back to playing his best footy, relieving him of the captaincy duties and responsibilities will certainly help with that, IMHO.

And if our new Captain has a bad year next year do we get rid of him as Captain as well. I reckon it effects Rooy by about 1% being Captain. I reckon his form is down 30% so I think it has bugger all to do with his form. And who do we give it to anyway. The only person who we know wont be effected by it is 32 next year and coming off a year out of footy.

[SainterK]

I was shot down on here last year for suggesting he needed to be relieved of some of the pressure he carries at the club...he back then, looked like a guy who was weighted down with expectation.

Needed someone else to decide what was best for him, because he (IMO) was not capable of making that decision.

He will always desire to lead.

I just don't think it would hurt for for him to follow for a change, how incredibly free he would feel.

We were as one on that one last year and I've seen nothing this year to suggest that it wouldn't have been beneficial for him to have had that load taken off his shoulders this year. I think he now needs the responsibilities of captaincy like he needs a hole in the head. He just seems to have far too much to deal with and it's no surprise whatsoever that his form has dropped off.
Just look at what it already seems to have done for Ricky Ponting. He already seems to have his energy and zest back and I think he commented the other day on how nice it has been to be able to just relax for the past few months, without having to deal with all the captaincy duties and responsibilities. He's now just back to making runs and is still very valuable to Clarke, with his insights and experience and advice when needed.
I expect it would have the same sort of effect on Nick and it would take a heap of pressure off his kicking for goal, especially, as he'll no longer be likely to think "I'm the captain, I have to kick this goal". It's almost getting cringeworthy watching him kick for goal in crucial moments of games now and the opposition must just grow an extra leg when they see him spray it out on the full, to the cheers and laughter of their fans.
Nick can still provide leadership and inspiration (as Lenny has done in recent years), without the added responsibilities of captaincy.
If we want him to get back to playing his best footy, relieving him of the captaincy duties and responsibilities will certainly help with that, IMHO.

And if our new Captain has a bad year next year do we get rid of him as Captain as well. I reckon it effects Rooy by about 1% being Captain. I reckon his form is down 30% so I think it has bugger all to do with his form. And who do we give it to anyway. The only person who we know wont be effected by it is 32 next year and coming off a year out of footy.

Sam Mitchell is going alright too, as an example of someone who handed over.

Curious, how do you know how it impacts him, and by what % ?

Don't you read the constant articles where the entire football world has 'Saint Nick' as the guy who is expected to captain his side over the line, turn around his and the clubs form slump, captain his side to a premiership to be truly great, be the key to us being a threat, win games soley off his boot?

The spotlight was pretty intense on him in 2009, last year it went to another level, this year was always going to be worse....even I didn't expect to such a ridiculous level.

I'm not talking about how as supporters we think of him, or internally how he is regarded at the club, externally he is seen as the captain of another premiership campaign that didn't deliver and they won't be easy on him.

In fact, I guarantee tonight will be focused on him as the footy shows 'analyse' St Kilda's hiccup on the weekend.

I'd love to feel like the bubble protects him, you're certainly welcome to think that it does, and the external expectation doesn't hinder him....

I disagree

[plugger66]

I was shot down on here last year for suggesting he needed to be relieved of some of the pressure he carries at the club...he back then, looked like a guy who was weighted down with expectation.

Needed someone else to decide what was best for him, because he (IMO) was not capable of making that decision.

He will always desire to lead.

I just don't think it would hurt for for him to follow for a change, how incredibly free he would feel.

We were as one on that one last year and I've seen nothing this year to suggest that it wouldn't have been beneficial for him to have had that load taken off his shoulders this year. I think he now needs the responsibilities of captaincy like he needs a hole in the head. He just seems to have far too much to deal with and it's no surprise whatsoever that his form has dropped off.
Just look at what it already seems to have done for Ricky Ponting. He already seems to have his energy and zest back and I think he commented the other day on how nice it has been to be able to just relax for the past few months, without having to deal with all the captaincy duties and responsibilities. He's now just back to making runs and is still very valuable to Clarke, with his insights and experience and advice when needed.
I expect it would have the same sort of effect on Nick and it would take a heap of pressure off his kicking for goal, especially, as he'll no longer be likely to think "I'm the captain, I have to kick this goal". It's almost getting cringeworthy watching him kick for goal in crucial moments of games now and the opposition must just grow an extra leg when they see him spray it out on the full, to the cheers and laughter of their fans.
Nick can still provide leadership and inspiration (as Lenny has done in recent years), without the added responsibilities of captaincy.
If we want him to get back to playing his best footy, relieving him of the captaincy duties and responsibilities will certainly help with that, IMHO.

And if our new Captain has a bad year next year do we get rid of him as Captain as well. I reckon it effects Rooy by about 1% being Captain. I reckon his form is down 30% so I think it has bugger all to do with his form. And who do we give it to anyway. The only person who we know wont be effected by it is 32 next year and coming off a year out of footy.

Sam Mitchell is going alright too, as an example of someone who handed over.

Curious, how do you know how it impacts him, and by what % ?

Don't you read the constant articles where the entire football world has 'Saint Nick' as the guy who is expected to captain his side over the line, turn around his and the clubs form slump, captain his side to a premiership to be truly great, be the key to us being a threat, win games soley off his boot?

The spotlight was pretty intense on him in 2009, last year it went to another level, this year was always going to be worse....even I didn't expect to such a ridiculous level.

I'm not talking about how as supporters we think of him, or internally how he is regarded at the club, externally he is seen as the captain of another premiership campaign that didn't deliver and they won't be easy on him.

In fact, I guarantee tonight will be focused on him as the footy shows 'analyse' St Kilda's hiccup on the weekend.

I'd love to feel like the bubble protects him, you're certainly welcome to think that it does, and the external expectation doesn't hinder him....

I disagree

You are right. I have no idea how much it effects him being Captain but neither do you. It hasnt effected him in 5 or so years but now all of a sudden when he is out of form we are looking for other excuses. And even if he wasnt Captain and he was playing how he is there would be exactly the same focus on him in these footy shows because of the player he is not because he is our captain.

[Saints Angel]

[quote="BigMart"]BJ needs to improve his body language first....and work through a few issues himself....

How exactly is removing the captaincy going to help his game....

Whe the balls coming into the fwd line, is it even in his thoughts, that he is captain....or is he just going to watch the ball..[/quote]

While I like BJ he has a lot of growing up to do first before he is ever considered as captain of St. Kilda. Rooey or Lenny for the job.

[SainterK]

You are right. I have no idea how much it effects him being Captain but neither do you. It hasnt effected him in 5 or so years but now all of a sudden when he is out of form we are looking for other excuses. And even if he wasnt Captain and he was playing how he is there would be exactly the same focus on him in these footy shows because of the player he is not because he is our captain.

You are right, I have no idea, it's just an opinion.

I agree there would be focus on him on him anyway because of his position and status in the game, that's kind of my point, surely that's enough?

Anyways, had my say.

[bigcarl]

I was shot down on here last year for suggesting he needed to be relieved of some of the pressure he carries at the club...he back then, looked like a guy who was weighted down with expectation.

Needed someone else to decide what was best for him, because he (IMO) was not capable of making that decision.

He will always desire to lead.

I just don't think it would hurt for for him to follow for a change, how incredibly free he would feel.

We were as one on that one last year and I've seen nothing this year to suggest that it wouldn't have been beneficial for him to have had that load taken off his shoulders this year. I think he now needs the responsibilities of captaincy like he needs a hole in the head. He just seems to have far too much to deal with and it's no surprise whatsoever that his form has dropped off.
Just look at what it already seems to have done for Ricky Ponting. He already seems to have his energy and zest back and I think he commented the other day on how nice it has been to be able to just relax for the past few months, without having to deal with all the captaincy duties and responsibilities. He's now just back to making runs and is still very valuable to Clarke, with his insights and experience and advice when needed.
I expect it would have the same sort of effect on Nick and it would take a heap of pressure off his kicking for goal, especially, as he'll no longer be likely to think "I'm the captain, I have to kick this goal". It's almost getting cringeworthy watching him kick for goal in crucial moments of games now and the opposition must just grow an extra leg when they see him spray it out on the full, to the cheers and laughter of their fans.
Nick can still provide leadership and inspiration (as Lenny has done in recent years), without the added responsibilities of captaincy.
If we want him to get back to playing his best footy, relieving him of the captaincy duties and responsibilities will certainly help with that, IMHO.

And if our new Captain has a bad year next year do we get rid of him as Captain as well. I reckon it effects Rooy by about 1% being Captain. I reckon his form is down 30% so I think it has bugger all to do with his form. And who do we give it to anyway. The only person who we know wont be effected by it is 32 next year and coming off a year out of footy.

Sam Mitchell is going alright too, as an example of someone who handed over.

Curious, how do you know how it impacts him, and by what % ?

Don't you read the constant articles where the entire football world has 'Saint Nick' as the guy who is expected to captain his side over the line, turn around his and the clubs form slump, captain his side to a premiership to be truly great, be the key to us being a threat, win games soley off his boot?

The spotlight was pretty intense on him in 2009, last year it went to another level, this year was always going to be worse....even I didn't expect to such a ridiculous level.

I'm not talking about how as supporters we think of him, or internally how he is regarded at the club, externally he is seen as the captain of another premiership campaign that didn't deliver and they won't be easy on him.

In fact, I guarantee tonight will be focused on him as the footy shows 'analyse' St Kilda's hiccup on the weekend.

I'd love to feel like the bubble protects him, you're certainly welcome to think that it does, and the external expectation doesn't hinder him....

I disagree

I agree K.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

And if our new Captain has a bad year next year do we get rid of him as Captain as well. I reckon it effects Rooy by about 1% being Captain. I reckon his form is down 30% so I think it has bugger all to do with his form. And who do we give it to anyway. The only person who we know wont be effected by it is 32 next year and coming off a year out of footy.

I believe you're kidding yourself if you reckon all the responsibilities and scrutiny of captaining an AFL side only affects him 1%.
As for why it would be affecting him more now, I'd suggest it would have all accumulated over the past few years, especially the fact he has captained a side to 3 GF's in a row and not come away with the goodies, on top of all the times he's kicked for goal at crucial times of games and proceeded to shank it out on the full, or for a point. Nick comes across as someone who is very sensitive and emotional and someone who takes a lot on his shoulders and I expect that sort of stuff will have weighed heavily on him and accumulated, as I said. We need to help him by taking as much of a load off his shoulders as we can, if we want to see him back to playing his best footy.
As for next year, I wouldn't be at all disappointed to see Sam Fisher in the role, but that's just an outside observation, so I may have a different view if I was on the inside. And if it didn't work out, believe it or not, I'd cross that bridge when I came to it. But I wouldn't be afraid to try it, because there are no guarantees with anything in life.

[Spinner]

You are right. I have no idea how much it effects him being Captain but neither do you. It hasnt effected him in 5 or so years but now all of a sudden when he is out of form we are looking for other excuses. And even if he wasnt Captain and he was playing how he is there would be exactly the same focus on him in these footy shows because of the player he is not because he is our captain.

You are right, I have no idea, it's just an opinion.

I agree there would be focus on him on him anyway because of his position and status in the game, that's kind of my point, surely that's enough?

Anyways, had my say.

Is a significantly poor opinion to say the least.

Very poor.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Are you the opinion judge?

[Spinner]

Are you the opinion judge?

Yes I am the opinion judge....

Also the opinion police.

And also the opinion fire brigade.

[SainterK]

You are right. I have no idea how much it effects him being Captain but neither do you. It hasnt effected him in 5 or so years but now all of a sudden when he is out of form we are looking for other excuses. And even if he wasnt Captain and he was playing how he is there would be exactly the same focus on him in these footy shows because of the player he is not because he is our captain.

You are right, I have no idea, it's just an opinion.

I agree there would be focus on him on him anyway because of his position and status in the game, that's kind of my point, surely that's enough?

Anyways, had my say.

Is a significantly poor opinion to say the least.

Very poor.

Poor in the sense that I worry about him and his wellbeing, or poor because my opinion differs to yours?

Don't get why people think it's the best thing to push him to breaking point?

Anyways, I remember you disagreeing with me about a certain defender a couple of years ago, said he wouldn't make it

Well if we all agreed, it would be pretty boring, your honour.

[Austinnn]

He'll still get his mill so it shouldn't bother him too much.....

Cynical and pithy comment I'd expect from a HeraldSun reader who supports another club - very surprised at this from you though Bob.

I'd imagine that he cares more about his professional career and his team's form than the bank balance.

Or was that gallows humour?

BTW Not trying to start a war, just letting you know that I don't agree with that comment, and if sarcastic, please make it more obvious for idiots such as myself.

EDIT: Sorry, I wrote the above reply before reading your follow-up post saying that it was the CAPTAINCY that was neither here or there for him as his salary would be the same.

Hmmmm, maybe he cares a bit more about being captain than you think. It's a pretty prestigious title. Look at the difference between Baldock and Stewart for example, or Loewe and Winmar. Or even Hammil and Gehrig. It still means a lot even after GT tried to deconstruct the myth.

I think he'd happily step down if he genuinely thought someone else could take the club further. But ego is part of the leadership package, isn't it?

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Are you the opinion judge?

Yes I am the opinion judge....

Also the opinion police.

And also the opinion fire brigade.

What about Santa Claus and the tooth fairy?

[Austinnn]

I have to say, I can't really make up my mind on this issue, traditionally I always go with the Change The Captaincy side when things go sour, on this occasion after consideration I followed the Keep The Current Captain movement...

but after reading APSainters' logical arguement, I think I'm seeing the benefits of a change, in the sense that it might just lighten the mental load.

He clearly needs less pressure, even if he deals with it well, no one is immune and he's had it accumilate over the last 3 years.

I'd like to see Joey Montagna get at least a vice captaincy, I think he'd take it on like North Melbourne's Harvey. He'll have to step up in consistency though.

Everyone here wants to see Riewoldt fresh and firing again, this year has been painful. Can he climb back while he's carrying the club on his shoulders? Broad shoulders they may be, but a man can only do SO much. He's carried the club a long way, winning games off his boot, making up for the bottom 6 players deficiencies the last few years. Time to pass the baton and just concentrate on being a gun again.

I still don't know to be honest.

[Spinner]

You are right. I have no idea how much it effects him being Captain but neither do you. It hasnt effected him in 5 or so years but now all of a sudden when he is out of form we are looking for other excuses. And even if he wasnt Captain and he was playing how he is there would be exactly the same focus on him in these footy shows because of the player he is not because he is our captain.

You are right, I have no idea, it's just an opinion.

I agree there would be focus on him on him anyway because of his position and status in the game, that's kind of my point, surely that's enough?

Anyways, had my say.

Is a significantly poor opinion to say the least.

Very poor.

Poor in the sense that I worry about him and his wellbeing, or poor because my opinion differs to yours?

Don't get why people think it's the best thing to push him to breaking point?

Anyways, I remember you disagreeing with me about a certain defender a couple of years ago, said he wouldn't make it
Well if we all agreed, it would be pretty boring, your honour.

Not sure what relevance this has to the entire thread....

For the record Ive been wrong before. In fact one earlier this year set me back $10 to another poster.

[SainterK]

You are right. I have no idea how much it effects him being Captain but neither do you. It hasnt effected him in 5 or so years but now all of a sudden when he is out of form we are looking for other excuses. And even if he wasnt Captain and he was playing how he is there would be exactly the same focus on him in these footy shows because of the player he is not because he is our captain.

You are right, I have no idea, it's just an opinion.

I agree there would be focus on him on him anyway because of his position and status in the game, that's kind of my point, surely that's enough?

Anyways, had my say.

Is a significantly poor opinion to say the least.

Very poor.

Poor in the sense that I worry about him and his wellbeing, or poor because my opinion differs to yours?

Don't get why people think it's the best thing to push him to breaking point?

Anyways, I remember you disagreeing with me about a certain defender a couple of years ago, said he wouldn't make it
Well if we all agreed, it would be pretty boring, your honour.

Not sure what relevance this has to the entire thread....

None whatsoever

[Spinner]

You are right. I have no idea how much it effects him being Captain but neither do you. It hasnt effected him in 5 or so years but now all of a sudden when he is out of form we are looking for other excuses. And even if he wasnt Captain and he was playing how he is there would be exactly the same focus on him in these footy shows because of the player he is not because he is our captain.

You are right, I have no idea, it's just an opinion.

I agree there would be focus on him on him anyway because of his position and status in the game, that's kind of my point, surely that's enough?

Anyways, had my say.

Is a significantly poor opinion to say the least.

Very poor.

Poor in the sense that I worry about him and his wellbeing, or poor because my opinion differs to yours?

Don't get why people think it's the best thing to push him to breaking point?

Anyways, I remember you disagreeing with me about a certain defender a couple of years ago, said he wouldn't make it
Well if we all agreed, it would be pretty boring, your honour.

Not sure what relevance this has to the entire thread....

None whatsoever

Thought so.

Anyways a few questions.



Who would you give it to?

Who do you then give it to when that players form begins to wavier?

Who do you give it to after that?




Also, and this is not the reason why Riewoldt should continue with the captaincy... But what type of look is it for the entire football world if the club took the captaincy off their best player, most mature player, most consistent player, the face of the club... all because his form waivered once in ten years....

Rabble, Crumbling, Weak... These are all words that would describe the above.

In fact removing the captaincy from Riewoldt would probably affect him more as a professional athlete.

[Spinner]

You are right. I have no idea how much it effects him being Captain but neither do you. It hasnt effected him in 5 or so years but now all of a sudden when he is out of form we are looking for other excuses. And even if he wasnt Captain and he was playing how he is there would be exactly the same focus on him in these footy shows because of the player he is not because he is our captain.

You are right, I have no idea, it's just an opinion.

I agree there would be focus on him on him anyway because of his position and status in the game, that's kind of my point, surely that's enough?

Anyways, had my say.

Is a significantly poor opinion to say the least.

Very poor.

Poor in the sense that I worry about him and his wellbeing, or poor because my opinion differs to yours?

Don't get why people think it's the best thing to push him to breaking point?

Anyways, I remember you disagreeing with me about a certain defender a couple of years ago, said he wouldn't make it
Well if we all agreed, it would be pretty boring, your honour.

Not sure what relevance this has to the entire thread....

None whatsoever

Thought so.

Anyways a few questions.



Who would you give it to?

Who do you then give it to when that players form begins to wavier?

Who do you give it to after that?




Also, and this is not the reason why Riewoldt should continue with the captaincy... But what type of look is it for the entire football world if the club took the captaincy off their best player, most mature player, most consistent player, the face of the club... all because his form waivered once in ten years....

Rabble, Crumbling, Weak... These are all words that would describe the above.

In fact removing the captaincy from Riewoldt would probably affect him more as a professional athlete.