512 days exposes the corrupt AFL

[plugger66]

If it cant be 100% fair they may as well make as much money as they can so it ensures every club stays. Imagine the stupidity of GC and Lions only playing once a year.

So perhaps Collingwood and Carlton should play four times a year.
And given the popularity of local derbies I think maybe we could milk them to do six a year - one a month.
Of course no-one will want to play GWS or GCS so maybe they could play each other every week when they aren't doing derbies.

That should maximise the revenue.

Yep good to see a sensible discussion but more an you expect when you think everything the AFL does is corrupt.

[saintbrat]

Each team should play each other once and then fiddle with the fixture.

Dawks play scum tomorrow night for the first time this year - what round last year did they play?

apparently it's almost as long for them rd 9 2010

[Enrico_Misso]

If it cant be 100% fair they may as well make as much money as they can so it ensures every club stays. Imagine the stupidity of GC and Lions only playing once a year.

So perhaps Collingwood and Carlton should play four times a year.
And given the popularity of local derbies I think maybe we could milk them to do six a year - one a month.
Of course no-one will want to play GWS or GCS so maybe they could play each other every week when they aren't doing derbies.

That should maximise the revenue.

Yep good to see a sensible discussion but more an you expect when you think everything the AFL does is corrupt.

You seem to have a good grasp on how to maximise revenue.
But have no idea about probability.
And just can't begin to comprehend that integrity is ultimately the key prerequisite for the competition to prosper.

The current Draw entirely lacks integrity.

[plugger66]

If it cant be 100% fair they may as well make as much money as they can so it ensures every club stays. Imagine the stupidity of GC and Lions only playing once a year.

So perhaps Collingwood and Carlton should play four times a year.
And given the popularity of local derbies I think maybe we could milk them to do six a year - one a month.
Of course no-one will want to play GWS or GCS so maybe they could play each other every week when they aren't doing derbies.

That should maximise the revenue.

Yep good to see a sensible discussion but more an you expect when you think everything the AFL does is corrupt.

You seem to have a good grasp on how to maximise revenue.
But have no idea about probability.
And just can't begin to comprehend that integrity is ultimately the key prerequisite for the competition to prosper.

The current Draw entirely lacks integrity.

And unless you play everyone twice so does any type of draw that people come up with so why not keep all the clubs going by maximizing revenue. By the way are you guaranteeing those 4 flags we will win. What a bitch only 4 flags in a life time.

Also loved that bit about the AFL being the laughing stock of other competitions throughout the word because of the draw. Very emotive but any proof on that statement.

[gringo]

I think this year was a super stinker of a draw taped together over a case of red because the boys at AFL house couldn't be f$#@ed thinking too hard for a one year fixture. With GWS coming they thought they would put out one psychedelic fixture and fix the thing up next year. When they get together in the off season dressed in nothing but masonic aprons and bacon fat and concoct their mysterious fixture, Collingwood may pop out for 8 interstate games next year.

[plugger66]

I think this year was a super stinker of a draw taped together over a case of red because the boys at AFL house couldn't be f$#@ed thinking too hard for a one year fixture. With GWS coming they thought they would put out one psychedelic fixture and fix the thing up next year. When they get together in the off season dressed in nothing but masonic aprons and bacon fat and concoct their mysterious fixture, Collingwood may pop out for 8 interstate games next year.

Why was it different to other year?

[Richter]

I think this year was a super stinker of a draw taped together over a case of red because the boys at AFL house couldn't be f$#@ed thinking too hard for a one year fixture. With GWS coming they thought they would put out one psychedelic fixture and fix the thing up next year. When they get together in the off season dressed in nothing but masonic aprons and bacon fat and concoct their mysterious fixture, Collingwood may pop out for 8 interstate games next year.

Of course it was a stinker of a draw for us this year.

Playing 3 of the top 5 twice (Cats, pies and Blues). I am not entirely sure that it was the AFL who purely take the blame for this though - the club also stand accused as I'm pretty sure we asked to play some of the bigger teams twice in order to maximise revenue.

Win this Saturday and it won't have made any difference to our final standing on the ladder. Lose, and follow up with two more losses, then that one match short will be the difference between 9th and 8th.

I guess our future is in our own hands.

[saintDal]

my son was born at the end of 2008 - he's yet to see a grand final that we haven't played in. pity that can't go on forever (unless we turn into the hawks from the 80's).

My son was born Feb 2009 so same situation. Would've been good to start his first 2 years with 2 flags. Oh well

[Liam_G]

And unless you play everyone twice so does any type of draw that people come up with...

That's just not right though. Of course playing everyone twice is the best possible solution, but I have seen multiple possible draws, including one proposed by the AFL in their Expansion/Vision/Future project (or whatever it was called) last year that were quite fair without playing everyone twice.

For example, one of the better options the AFL floated themselves involved everyone playing each other only ONCE per draw over the first 17 weeks of the season. Teams would play each other Home & Away over a two year period. This is both fair & transparent.

After round 17, clubs are then reallocated into three divisions based on their ladder positions (top six, middle six and bottom six). The top six play each other in the last five games and jostle for finals ladder positions. The middle six play each other in the last five games and battle for the last available places in the finals (a final eight or 10 could be used). The bottom six play each other in the last five games, but they are already excluded from finals contention, but could possibly play for further reward, like higher selections in a draft lottery or something of the like.

Like the finals, the final 5 rounds of the season (let's call them "playoffs" for example) are completely based on ladder position and are, again, fair & transparent. You don't hear (many) people complaining about playing certain teams in finals because as we all know, finals matches are all about where you finish on the ladder after 22 rounds. Well this system is no different, but it's now about where you finish on the ladder after 17 rounds & playing everyone once each.

There ARE options there. The AFL need to think outside the box, but whatever the change, it's is going to radical and may take time to get used too. The options they proposed last year, like the one above, show they CAN think radical, but will they act on them? Either way, the current fixture is flawed, we all know that, but they DO have options.

[Enrico_Misso]

Liam_G,
you are wasting your breath with logical argument.
Some people just don't get "fair".

There are quite a number of other "fair" options also.
Some are systematically fair in that they give an equal representation over a three year cycle.
Others have those final 5 rounds selected at random which is also "fair" in the sense that there are no inherent biases.

And by the way I did once try and explain our H&A draw to a visiting Pommie soccer fan - he was gobsmacked. Kept coming back with "But surely ...." before politely giving up. He probably thought we are just amateurs!
Can you imagine this rubbish in the Premier League!

Whilst people will have different views on what is the fairest option,
there can be NO DOUBT that the current system is rampantly UNFAIR to the point of being CORRUPT and totally lacking INTEGRITY.

[Sainternist]

Good job, Enrico.

As usual, you are not missing a beat.

Last time we met the Swans, we had everyone cheering against us. including Luke Darcy

[plugger66]

Liam_G,
you are wasting your breath with logical argument.
Some people just don't get "fair".

There are quite a number of other "fair" options also.
Some are systematically fair in that they give an equal representation over a three year cycle.
Others have those final 5 rounds selected at random which is also "fair" in the sense that there are no inherent biases.

And by the way I did once try and explain our H&A draw to a visiting Pommie soccer fan - he was gobsmacked. Kept coming back with "But surely ...." before politely giving up. He probably thought we are just amateurs!
Can you imagine this rubbish in the Premier League!

Whilst people will have different views on what is the fairest option,
there can be NO DOUBT that the current system is rampantly UNFAIR to the point of being CORRUPT and totally lacking INTEGRITY.

Yes the premier league. It has a fair draw but only 4 sides can win it. How would that go with your silly stats. If you are going to pick something that is fair well you have just made a fool of yourself. Now you tell me it is only soccer people laughing at the draw. Well that has a lot of cedibility. Hope they follow only MU, Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool otherwise we could just laugh at their league. As for what Liam said how silly would that be. If you are 7th after round 17 you play the 8th to 12th sides but if you are 6th you play the 1st to 5th sides and both sides could be separeted by 1%. That would be great. We would have taking in round 15 and 16 to try and finish 7th. And not only that the AFL then receive much less TV money and we then lose side. You could be right though, it could back to 12 sides and we can play each other twice its just our side may not be part of it. At least your new side would have a fair draw and they will win the flag 7 times in your lifetime.

[Dis Believer]

Simple answer.

Reduce home and away to 17 rounds. alternate years so you get nine home games one year and 8 home games the following year. (clubs could market two year memberships). Every Vic team to travel for half (4)games against non-Vic teams. Very simple, there is two teams in every state now (except Vic of course). So you play Eagles in Perth, you play Freo in Melb, then swap the following year. You play Lions in Qld, you play GCS in Melb and then swap the following year etc.

Increase preseason comp to 6 weeks. 3 weeks of round robin, followed by top 8 in knockout format.
One weekend off between comps, one bye for everyone after week 9 of H&A season.

[Life Long Saint]

Yes the premier league. It has a fair draw but only 4 sides can win it. How would that go with your silly stats. If you are going to pick something that is fair well you have just made a fool of yourself. Now you tell me it is only soccer people laughing at the draw. Well that has a lot of cedibility. Hope they follow only MU, Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool otherwise we could just laugh at their league.

But the EPL does not have a draft and salary cap. That is why only four sides can win it each year. The draw ensures that every team plays every other team at home and away.

As for what Liam said how silly would that be. If you are 7th after round 17 you play the 8th to 12th sides but if you are 6th you play the 1st to 5th sides and both sides could be separeted by 1%. That would be great. We would have taking in round 15 and 16 to try and finish 7th.

What is the difference between your concern and finishing 9th and missing the finals by 1%? You've got to have a cut off point according to some rules.
Thinking sides would be tanking to finish 7th is ridiculous! If you're 6th after 15 rounds you could still be in the hunt for a top 4 finish. Sides bound for finals won't tank. You should know that you never flirt with form when you're finals bound. Not your most clever statement.

[bigcarl]

It's all about maximising revenue as decreed by the gluttonous dictator Demetriou.

Yet he claims the competition's integrity is paramount.

Fix the draw, you fat fraud.

[Leo.J]

It's all about maximising revenue as decreed by the gluttonous dictator Demetriou.

Yet he claims the competition's integrity is paramount.

Fix the draw, you fat fraud.

Spot on.

And this rubbish about maximising profits to save all the clubs at the expense of a the fixture... what a load of short sighted crap, It's more about maximising revenues so Demetriou can collect his bonus..

How about give these clubs an opportunity to create their own wealth through sponsorship and gate takings by giving them a go at the odd block buster, Anzac day and prime time slot.

Combine that with a cap on off field spending and then those clubs would have a chance of saving themselves rather than relying on the dole.

[tweedaletomanning]

It's all about maximising revenue as decreed by the gluttonous dictator Demetriou.

Yet he claims the competition's integrity is paramount.

Fix the draw, you fat fraud.

Spot on.

And this rubbish about maximising profits to save all the clubs at the expense of a the fixture... what a load of short sighted crap, It's more about maximising revenues so Demetriou can collect his bonus..

How about give these clubs an opportunity to create their own wealth through sponsorship and gate takings by giving them a go at the odd block buster, Anzac day and prime time slot.

Combine that with a cap on off field spending and then those clubs would have a chance of saving themselves rather than relying on the dole.

+ 1

Anyone who could possibly think the AFL are doing a good job are either seriously deluded, or quite stupid!!!

[plugger66]

Yes the premier league. It has a fair draw but only 4 sides can win it. How would that go with your silly stats. If you are going to pick something that is fair well you have just made a fool of yourself. Now you tell me it is only soccer people laughing at the draw. Well that has a lot of cedibility. Hope they follow only MU, Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool otherwise we could just laugh at their league.

But the EPL does not have a draft and salary cap. That is why only four sides can win it each year. The draw ensures that every team plays every other team at home and away.

As for what Liam said how silly would that be. If you are 7th after round 17 you play the 8th to 12th sides but if you are 6th you play the 1st to 5th sides and both sides could be separeted by 1%. That would be great. We would have taking in round 15 and 16 to try and finish 7th.

What is the difference between your concern and finishing 9th and missing the finals by 1%? You've got to have a cut off point according to some rules.
Thinking sides would be tanking to finish 7th is ridiculous! If you're 6th after 15 rounds you could still be in the hunt for a top 4 finish. Sides bound for finals won't tank. You should know that you never flirt with form when you're finals bound. Not your most clever statement.

I know the EPL dont have a draft. That doesnt make it a good compeition. Lets face it if the alternative was a fixture that we have now or only WCE, Crows, Pies and Dons could win a flag even those people arguing that the draw is completely unfair would rather that than the other option. The EPL is stuffed and it is a bad example of people laughing at our comp. 4 sides can win it and nearly every club broke. If people really think that is good we I am confused.
As for your comment they wouldnt tank well I totally disagree. If you were highly unlikely to finish top 4 after 17 rounds but could be 7th after 17 rounds than get to play 8th to 12th sides instead of 1st to 5th sides why would you throw a game. You will make it up in the last 5 gam es when you will nearly all of them whilst the 6th side loses nearly all of them and drops out of the 8. It is actually illogical to think a 6th to 8th side wouldnt tank in that situation.
And to those who think TV rights money doesnt matter well it doesnt matter whether we like it or not but the AFL are going to look after the interstate sides first and if North, WB, Melbourne or us are casuties because of lack of money then it will be a matter of bad luck and that doesnt matter if AD is in charge or the next person after him. Thats the facts. 10 Victorian sides arent needed if there is less money in the game but interstate sides are needed to at least keep some money in the game. Sorry but i like it now where every side is guaranteed survival and any side can win the flag.

[Life Long Saint]

I know the EPL dont have a draft. That doesnt make it a good compeition. Lets face it if the alternative was a fixture that we have now or only WCE, Crows, Pies and Dons could win a flag even those people arguing that the draw is completely unfair would rather that than the other option. The EPL is stuffed and it is a bad example of people laughing at our comp. 4 sides can win it and nearly every club broke. If people really think that is good we I am confused.
As for your comment they wouldnt tank well I totally disagree. If you were highly unlikely to finish top 4 after 17 rounds but could be 7th after 17 rounds than get to play 8th to 12th sides instead of 1st to 5th sides why would you throw a game. You will make it up in the last 5 gam es when you will nearly all of them whilst the 6th side loses nearly all of them and drops out of the 8. It is actually illogical to think a 6th to 8th side wouldnt tank in that situation.

I never indicated that the EPL is a good comp. Personally, I think all competitions that don't try to provide an even playing field are flawed.

Our flaw is, quite obviously, the fixture. There are lots of alternatives out there that provide a more even competition than the one we currently have.

The most obvious is 2 x 9 conferences (call them what you will if it's too American)...Into one conference goes all the Victorian teams except North Melbourne. They are the most logical choice for the conference with the interstate teams as they don't attract a big crowd in Melbourne anyway and it would help them to establish the Hobart following. Into the other conference goes all the non-Victorian teams plus North Melbourne.
Every team plays each team in their own conference twice and each team in the other conference once. That makes for a 25 week season. Clearly the NAB cub would be scrapped. If the AFLPA complains about the 25 week long season, then put in a rule that has a player playing no more than 23 matches in the H&A season and increase the roster size by two or three players.

More games = more revenue.
Grouping conferences = more blockbusters, more often = more revenue = TV stations happy!
Interstate travel is fairer among all teams. Non-Victorian teams travel every second week as it stands now anyway).
Total transparency of the fixturing = integrity.

[Enrico_Misso]

Total transparency of the fixturing = integrity.

The draw is currently transparent.

Transparently unfair
Transparently corrupt
Transparently biaised
Transparently solely motivated on revenue and marketing.

Change "Transparency" to "Fairness" and I'm happy.

[Dr Spaceman]

Total transparency of the fixturing = integrity.

The draw is currently transparent.

Transparently unfair
Transparently corrupt
Transparently biaised
Transparently solely motivated on revenue and marketing.

Change "Transparency" to "Fairness" and I'm happy.

So I take it you can "see right through" Andrew then EM

[plugger66]

Total transparency of the fixturing = integrity.

The draw is currently transparent.

Transparently unfair
Transparently corrupt
Transparently biaised
Transparently solely motivated on revenue and marketing.

Change "Transparency" to "Fairness" and I'm happy.

I notice you have lost interest in telling us how good the EPL is. I dont like conferences but I do admit LLS idea is quite good if we ever go with a conference.

[Leo.J]

Black...

[Leo.J]

...Just waiting for someone we know to say 'white'.

[Enrico_Misso]

Total transparency of the fixturing = integrity.

The draw is currently transparent.

Transparently unfair
Transparently corrupt
Transparently biaised
Transparently solely motivated on revenue and marketing.

Change "Transparency" to "Fairness" and I'm happy.

I notice you have lost interest in telling us how good the EPL is. I dont like conferences but I do admit LLS idea is quite good if we ever go with a conference.

This thread, if you care to actually look at it, is about the fairness of the Draw.
You changed the topic to salary caps/ drafting.

In terms of the Draw the EPL couldn't be fairer as I stated.
As opposed to the AFL Draw with is totally compromised and makes us an international laughing stock.