Open letter to Andrew Demetriou

[perfectionist]

I sent the following letter to Andrew Demetriou on the 16th October, 2010. I am still awaiting a response.

Dear Mr. Demetriou

I am writing to you about the AFL member arrangements for the Grand Final. I have been an AFL member for many years and have attended numerous Grand Finals during that period. For the first time this year, I not only felt threatened by the crowd, but was actually threatened and jostled.

The Grand Final ticketing arrangements for AFL members quite fairly allocate most tickets to those who have nominated their team as a club support. I have nominated St Kilda. For one reason or another, not every team has the same amount of AFL Club Support members. It has been clear for a long time that Collingwood have by far the most members in this category.

Our great game is the envy of the world in terms of the ability of opposing spectators to attend the match and mix without the violence or intimidation that has beset other codes, both here and overseas. On the occasion of the Grand Final, and in particular the Replay, this seemed to change. I have been following the Saints since 1960. Whilst I wear the Saints scarf and cap that I receive with my membership, I am not a yeller at the football, and never enter into disputes with opposition supporters. I knew that the odds were that I would be surrounded by Collingwood supporters when I bought my ticket. What I did not know was that it would be a group of about fifteen whose behaviour would be the worst I have seen at an AFL match. They behaved as a pack.

Right from the start, having smuggled in alcohol in coke bottles, they were determined to be as obnoxious as possible, especially to any Saints supporter around like, alas, me. They spent most of the time on their feet, either abusing the umpires or St Kilda players. That happens a lot at games, what doesn’t happen is the jostling of those around them who are identified as supporting the opposing team. The guy next to me, stamped on my foot a number of times and then when applauding his team made sure that his elbows whacked me in my side. After enduring this for the first quarter, I asked him to ensure that he did not invade my space. The response was to ignore my request in the second quarter and for his mate, who was sitting behind me, to kick my seat.

During the third quarter, I approached the MCG attendant and told him what was happening, and he just shrugged his shoulders and said that there was just too many of them. I had to leave the area and tried to watch the remaining game from the rear of the standing area on the lower level.

I attended last year’s Grand Final, and the Geelong fans, and others around, were no problem at all.

It’s a terrible state of affairs, and one that will probably only exist when Collingwood play. The only solution that I can see is that club supporters are separated in the allocation process. It’s bad enough when your team loses, but that’s football. This was something different. One of the reasons that I initially joined the AFL membership was to ensure that I could watch a game, free from drunken yahoos spoiling the occasion.

I attended the Geelong – Collingwood Preliminary Final and witnessed something similar, though obviously not involving the same people. Once again, a group of young male Collingwood supporters thought that it would be OK to be all over two female Geelong supporters who were wearing the Cats colours. They had to huddle together to avoid the sorts of intrusions into their space that I have described above.

This is a very unfortunate development in our game, but it is important that it is nipped in the bud early.

[Junction Oval]

You are not the only one being abused by Collingwood supporters, Perfectionist.

A friend of mine and his family suffered the same sort of abuse in the AFL section at last year's GF. I sat with he and his wife for 20 minutes after the match, consoling the girls. Fortunately, he is a very big guy and was not physically targeted.

My friend happily accepts "general footy banter," but he and his family will never attend a Collingwood match again! It sounds like a few Saints supporters may now be in the same boat.

[ozrulestrace]

Well put.

You could have added a lot of us left early in the GF replay not because of the result but because I didn't want to have to deal with the Collingwood supporters at the end of the game and on the train.

Don't hold your breath for a reply.

He's too busy putting his head in the sand about a lot of matters.

[matrix]

the girl was in amongst them on her own at the back of level three at the first GF, they actually started fights amongst themselves

she lasted ten mins and walked down to the foyer and watched the whole game on a small tv.

they remind me of soccer fans in the uk when i was young
just going to cause trouble and be feral
its an excuse to let the behavior out of the bag and think they can get away with it.

security and police do F*** all
so much for taking the family to a game and enjoying it huh

[St Lenny]

Resend it. cc it to macguire and nettelfold. This is the time to really get across what people have to put up with.

[Leo.J]

The last four Filth games I've been to I have been pushed, bumped, had people clapping and yelling in my face, all occuring absolutely unprevoked.

The are the Filth... They disgust me.

[stinger]

Resend it. cc it to macguire and nettelfold. This is the time to really get across what people have to put up with.

with a copy to robbo i would suggest

[stinger]

The last four Filth games I've been to I have been pushed, bumped, had people clapping and yelling in my face, all occuring absolutely unprevoked.

The are the Filth... They disgust me.

me too...but then they haven't changed since i was a boy and got spat on at filth park.....these are the grandsons and great grand sons of that filth....like father like son.....through the ages....

[Moods]

AS a bloke who attends many pies games (due to having a fanatical pies supporting wife) I will give my version of pies fans as I see it.

In the last 5 or so years I I reckon I have seen b/w 50 - 60 Collingwood games live. I too am an AFL member.

To be honest I have hardly ever had a problem with them, as a neutral supporter or when they play the saints. Last year when they finally beat us at the G in the H&A season I had 4-6 rough looking blokes seated in front of us. My first thought was 'here we go.' A nicer bunch of blokes you couldn't meet. They barracked enthusiastically for their team, but were too concerned that their team would lose to worry about the saints. At one stage one of the blokes let out a string of expletives. His mate nudged him and pointed out my 2 young daughters with me - he immediately apologised. In most games they are loud but not often abusive. there are often some colourful characters in attendance but I have been fortunate not to be seated near them.

In the 1st GF last year, I reckon there were stacks of neutral supporters in the AFL members and they were nearly all going for the saints. This assisted in the support area. I didn't really notice them. In the replay I was fortunate enough to be on the 2nd level. No-one said a word to me throughout the game (whether that was b/c I was with my 10yr old daughter I'm not sure) I stayed the duration of the game, and wandered down to level 1 after the game to see my wife and my pies following youngest daughter. I wasn't sure what to expect. ppl were delirious as you would expect. At least 2 pies fans (who I don't know) put a consoling arm on my shoulder whilst I was talking with my wife and said bad luck. As I was walking out of the ground only one tosser tried to bait me. I didn't even look in his direction and eventually turned off in another direction within the crowd and he got sick of it.

In summary - up until last year, I hadn't found them to be that bad at all. There will always be fools with every club, but most games I enjoy the atmosphere their large and very boisterous supporters create.

This year however there appears to be a bit of an edge to many of them. For whatever reason particularly twds saints fans and our club. I have written in another post about the psychos that were in front of me at the last game. Many of their supporters appear way too comfortable in screaming out the words rapist - this wasn't the case up until last year (I wonder what changed last year? ) Mick Malthouse has a lot to answer for. Not only has he created unnecessary venom and hatred twds Milne, he has continued to fan the flames by not backing his president's stance and tacitly condoned the behaviour of the losers within their supporter base. In a sense it's created a genuine rivalry with the pies- something our club hasn't really ever had with any clubs.

Perfectionist - I'm sorry for your experience in last years GF's. I agree with you though in your suggestion of selling tix in blocks for the GF with supporter groups. The tix on the Sunday are only available for the competing clubs, so why not allow them all to sit together? Good idea.

[PaytonPlace]

My experiences have always been marred by the fact I wear a Milne jumper to games, and are way too many to mention here, but this year was the worst I've been too.

Went with a fellow American to the Collingwood/Carlton game in Round 3 and in return she came with me to Sts vs Bombers. Girl I went with is a Pies fan, nice kid, we generally go to footy games together if I'm in Melbourne. Anyway, I couldn't bear the obvious flag unfurling, but the atmosphere in the pub beforehand was so hostile. Collingwood fans who couldn't tell Shaw from Didak walking up and down asking people not in colours who they thought would win, swearing, picking on old women in Carlton colors. The whole deal.

Think it was the 1st quarter. Think Harry O got outmarked by one of the Blues players (maybe Houlihan?) and as a neutral I clapped. Apparently "I disrespected Pie army!" (sic) according to Chopper Reads more aggressive brother and when I was asked which team I went for, and answered, I was not only a flowering stupid bimbo yank but a flowering stupid bimbo loosely moralled defender of rapists. You get the idea. He cocked his fist, spat on my shoes, and was escorted out calling me every name under the sun. I've never felt threatened at any AFL game, but rest assured, I was going to be bashed up at this game.

All for clapping. Still, there's no problem with their supporters. Just an isolated incident says Mick...

Becca

[Jacks Back]

The filth have always been f-wits.

I'm currently reading the David Schwarz book and he says the the filth pissed into their beer cans and tipped it on the Melbourne players heads as they walked down the race back in 92 I think after the Dees had a win.

Cucking Funts

[PaytonPlace]

Only problem is we were actually getting somewhere and Rodney Eades sacking has put fan behaviour right back down to 27th on the agenda, so they got off the hook

Plus ça change, Plus c'est la même chose

Becca

[Dr Spaceman]

My experiences have always been marred by the fact I wear a Milne jumper to games, and are way too many to mention here, but this year was the worst I've been too.

Went with a fellow American to the Collingwood/Carlton game in Round 3 and in return she came with me to Sts vs Bombers. Girl I went with is a Pies fan, nice kid, we generally go to footy games together if I'm in Melbourne. Anyway, I couldn't bear the obvious flag unfurling, but the atmosphere in the pub beforehand was so hostile. Collingwood fans who couldn't tell Shaw from Didak walking up and down asking people not in colours who they thought would win, swearing, picking on old women in Carlton colors. The whole deal.

Think it was the 1st quarter. Think Harry O got outmarked by one of the Blues players (maybe Houlihan?) and as a neutral I clapped. Apparently "I disrespected Pie army!" (sic) according to Chopper Reads more aggressive brother and when I was asked which team I went for, and answered, I was not only a flowering stupid bimbo yank but a flowering stupid bimbo loosely moralled defender of rapists. You get the idea. He cocked his fist, spat on my shoes, and was escorted out calling me every name under the sun. I've never felt threatened at any AFL game, but rest assured, I was going to be bashed up at this game.

All for clapping. Still, there's no problem with their supporters. Just an isolated incident says Mick...

Becca

Well they obviously don't need our help getting the clap

[SaintPav]

Only problem is we were actually getting somewhere and Rodney Eades sacking has put fan behaviour right back down to 27th on the agenda, so they got off the hook

Plus ça change, Plus c'est la même chose

Becca

So so true....bloody filth.

Ce sont des cochons

[Dr Spaceman]

Only problem is we were actually getting somewhere and Rodney Eades sacking has put fan behaviour right back down to 27th on the agenda, so they got off the hook

Plus ça change, Plus c'est la même chose

Becca

So so true....bloody filth.

Ce sont des cochons

Pity the males don't put cochons on their Pie Peckers!

[PaytonPlace]

Only problem is we were actually getting somewhere and Rodney Eades sacking has put fan behaviour right back down to 27th on the agenda, so they got off the hook

Plus ça change, Plus c'est la même chose

Becca

So so true....bloody filth.

Ce sont des cochons

360 would have taken them to task if it wasn't for the Rocket getting fired

Merde

Becca

[Sainternist]

What amazes me that, after all these years, since introducing allocated seating, the AFL has yet to devise a way of separating supporters from both competing clubs. I was put in a bay of mainly Filth fans for GF2, even though I was granted a ticket through being September Saint status. Perhaps that was through fault of Ticketek's distribution of GF2 tickets.

So I left my seat, which I had paid almost $100 years extra for and made for standing room in an effort to find refuge from the Filth Army.

[PaytonPlace]

What amazes me that, after all these years, since introducing allocated seating, the AFL has yet to devise a way of separating supporters from both competing clubs. I was put in a bay of mainly Filth fans for GF2, even though I was granted a ticket through being September Saint status. Perhaps that was through fault of Ticketek's distribution of GF2 tickets.

So I left my seat, which I had paid almost $100 years extra for and made for standing room in an effort to find refuge from the Filth Army.

Sorry to play the bewildered Yank again, but until this year I always thought two of the main features of going to an AFL game were that supporters could sit together and everyone left together. Try wearing an opposition shirt in the Superdome and see how you go (and yes, I know it's a bit different because essentially most grounds are neutral in this day and age, but I've been safely interstate and at Geelong in my time)

I would hate for that to be ruined - its a special part of going to the football in this country.

I'd hate to feel we need to get to segregation...maybe just for games against them? Might be getting to that stage. It's easy planned, but we'd lose something very special.

Becca

[FQF]

cc also to the newspapers. If Demetriou sees that the letter has been made public, he will feel much more pressured to respond.

[Saints Angel]

Sounds like many of us have had a bad experience when we play the filth. I went to all finals last year with my family. We decided to leave the GF2 early to avoid the filth outside the ground. It was necessary to do this because we had young children with us. My son had his car littered with collingwood stuff. They probably saw the Saints sticker on the window.
We need to keep up notifying the AFL, St. KIlda, Collingwood and the stadiums of the obscene behaviour we experience when we play this pathetic team. It may take time but we Saints fans must be relentless to expose this barbaric behaviour.

[SaintScottOfSydney]

I've been to Ibrox to support Celtic against the Rangers and that is a hostile experience.

I usually come down for games with them. I have been to the all games for the last 3 years except the first gf and last friday, but it's concerning me that we've somehow become their biggest rivalry. It is reaching Old Firm proportions...and that shouldn't happen here. I'm also a Sydney FC fan and even the games with the Victory don't worry as much as these games are. If we beat them in a gf in the next few years and Milney has a blinder, how are the vocal minority going to handle it?

No doubt some Pies fan will troll on here and say we aren't their biggest rivals but while I was down in July I went to the Blues-Pies match and they didn't carry on as much as they do for us.

Something has to be done. We all know a decent Pies fan and we know the majority a) have their own teeth and b) earn their own $$ but the rivalry is getting beyond a joke. Saints fans have always been the bohemian fan base that cheers but within reason but for the mcg game and from what I could hear and have been told about Etihad, we are getting to a new level, which isn;t a bad thing as such, but I want it to be because we are willing our boys home, not because we feel we have to outdo the filth. I personally would never boo Luke Ball but I suspect the booing he is copping on a greater scale each game is merely a reaction to what Milney cops.

Sort it out!

[stinger]

Only problem is we were actually getting somewhere and Rodney Eades sacking has put fan behaviour right back down to 27th on the agenda, so they got off the hook

Plus ça change, Plus c'est la même chose

Becca

So so true....bloody filth.

Ce sont des cochons

360 would have taken them to task if it wasn't for the Rocket getting fired

Merde

Becca

they did...and no...this ain't going away...eade sacking notwithstanding....

[PaytonPlace]

I've been to Ibrox to support Celtic against the Rangers and that is a hostile experience.

I usually come down for games with them. I have been to the all games for the last 3 years except the first gf and last friday, but it's concerning me that we've somehow become their biggest rivalry. It is reaching Old Firm proportions...and that shouldn't happen here. I'm also a Sydney FC fan and even the games with the Victory don't worry as much as these games are. If we beat them in a gf in the next few years and Milney has a blinder, how are the vocal minority going to handle it?

No doubt some Pies fan will troll on here and say we aren't their biggest rivals but while I was down in July I went to the Blues-Pies match and they didn't carry on as much as they do for us.

Something has to be done. We all know a decent Pies fan and we know the majority a) have their own teeth and b) earn their own $$ but the rivalry is getting beyond a joke. Saints fans have always been the bohemian fan base that cheers but within reason but for the mcg game and from what I could hear and have been told about Etihad, we are getting to a new level, which isn;t a bad thing as such, but I want it to be because we are willing our boys home, not because we feel we have to outdo the filth. I personally would never boo Luke Ball but I suspect the booing he is copping on a greater scale each game is merely a reaction to what Milney cops.

Sort it out!

We're absolutely #1 on their hit list. I can only imagine what would happen if Milne kicked a Zaharakis style winner on the siren...

It's become a horribly unpleasant experience to attend any Collingwood game and the last one I flew over for was the final in 08. I think an under-rated part of all this is their ad campaign. It encourages people to join an army, march as one, work in a pack and the end product of that is that they bully dissenters. You can't put the genie back in the bottle and say behave yourself when your entire marketing strategy is we're united against the world, march with us...

I don't even get what Milne has done to them to make the mud exclusively stick to him. Stand his ground? Give as good as he gets in the face of rampant abuse?

Becca

[PaytonPlace]

Only problem is we were actually getting somewhere and Rodney Eades sacking has put fan behaviour right back down to 27th on the agenda, so they got off the hook

Plus ça change, Plus c'est la même chose

Becca

So so true....bloody filth.

Ce sont des cochons

360 would have taken them to task if it wasn't for the Rocket getting fired

Merde

Becca

they did...and no...this ain't going away...eade sacking notwithstanding....

They did, but I was so disappointed in Whateley turning it into "the media has it in for Malthouse" at the end

Becca

[stinger]

I've been to Ibrox to support Celtic against the Rangers and that is a hostile experience.

I usually come down for games with them. I have been to the all games for the last 3 years except the first gf and last friday, but it's concerning me that we've somehow become their biggest rivalry. It is reaching Old Firm proportions...and that shouldn't happen here. I'm also a Sydney FC fan and even the games with the Victory don't worry as much as these games are. If we beat them in a gf in the next few years and Milney has a blinder, how are the vocal minority going to handle it?

No doubt some Pies fan will troll on here and say we aren't their biggest rivals but while I was down in July I went to the Blues-Pies match and they didn't carry on as much as they do for us.

Something has to be done. We all know a decent Pies fan and we know the majority a) have their own teeth and b) earn their own $$ but the rivalry is getting beyond a joke. Saints fans have always been the bohemian fan base that cheers but within reason but for the mcg game and from what I could hear and have been told about Etihad, we are getting to a new level, which isn;t a bad thing as such, but I want it to be because we are willing our boys home, not because we feel we have to outdo the filth. I personally would never boo Luke Ball but I suspect the booing he is copping on a greater scale each game is merely a reaction to what Milney cops.

Sort it out!

We're absolutely #1 on their hit list. I can only imagine what would happen if Milne kicked a Zaharakis style winner on the siren...

It's become a horribly unpleasant experience to attend any Collingwood game and the last one I flew over for was the final in 08. I think an under-rated part of all this is their ad campaign. It encourages people to join an army, march as one, work in a pack and the end product of that is that they bully dissenters. You can't put the genie back in the bottle and say behave yourself when your entire marketing strategy is we're united against the world, march with us...

I don't even get what Milne has done to them to make the mud exclusively stick to him. Stand his ground? Give as good as he gets in the face of rampant abuse?

Becca

maybe it's the skeletons in their own closet.....