Westaway joins the fray

[Maklom]

Westaway is saying that the biggest revenue issues at the moment are gate receipts, stadium deals and probably memberships (even though he didn't mention it explicitly).

Question: Why is football popular and what makes a person barrack and then fork out money to become a member of a club?

Answer (imo): Because they attended enough games in person to grow a fondness for that club and convert their hard earned into a financial bond with the club. Not from watching it on TV. Not from and AFL or club promotion. Not from hearing from so and so that X is a good team to go for (although that does start the young kids following)

So what am I trying to say? That if people don't get to go to games for whatever reason: Stadium admission expense, night/twilight games, games sold interstate...they lose their affinity with the club, become empathetic and don't turn up, meaning the club doesn't get there money anymore.

Regardless of what the AFL bend the clubs over a barrel for (even the rich ones), match fixtures are paramount the health of both the clubs and the AFL competition as a whole and right now it is bent way too far towards just the TV audience.

In my opinion this is becoming unhealthy and cannot be sustained and definitely needs to be looked at further.

Off my soapbox now! :D

[Maklom]

Sorry, I meant aphathetic in my last post.

[Maklom]

Goddamn, apathetic!

[Johnny Member]

To go with the horse racing analogy....

A gun horse in an 8 horse field, has a better chance of winning than if it's in a 24 horse field.

It's ability doesn't change, but the probability of it winning changes due to the increase in variables being added in.


And that's where it's gets harder for clubs.

Each year, there's really only 4 teams that are fair dinkum. You need to be one of those 4, then corss your fingers come finals time that tihngs go your way and you pinch a flag.

With an 18 or 20 team comp, there's a distinct chance (especially with the way the AFL are pumping money and resources into the new clubs) that you might find that there are 5-6 clubs that are fair dinkum each year.

The other thing that makes it tough, is that it will take longer to 'bottom out'.

The comp is very uneven in terms of the standard of the top teams compared to the bottom teams.
In the AFL, the cycle is pretty quick. You're up the top, then you can be down the bottom very, very quickly - sometimes within a year or so. The only way to get back up, is to get good kids, which only happens from being down the bottom.

With 18-20 teams, there's a big chance that it will take longer to get to the bottom.

So in the future, you may not bottom out within a year or so. It may take 3-4 years to slowly become shithouse, and you may be fighting over Draft picks with 3-4 clubs instead of 1 or 2.

So these days, you bottom out and score 3-4 really decent picks, in the future you may only get 1-2. So it will take longer to rebuild.



I just wonder how many fans will hang around for 7-8 years for their team to come good, instead of the current 3-4 cycle that seems to happen.

[SainterSoul]

I'm confused, didn't we sign the deal to play at Docklands? I can't remember what happened, but didn't we have the choice of what ground to play at?

While we are obviously being "stiffed" in terms of what we should get, I would have thought that we should have negotiated a better deal to begin with - or we should have gone elsewhere.

[Ice Wolf]

Easy Solution for the AFL, introduce 3 Conferences of 6

You play your Conference H&A, and Half of each of the other Conferences at Home and the Other Half Away then next year you switch which one you played at home and which you played away.

The Finals are made up of either:

Conference winners + next best 5 records with the Conference winners making up the top 3 and the best record of the rest of the qualifiers taking the final double chance.

or

Top 2 from each Conference + next best 2 records. Conference winners making up the top 3 and the best record of the rest of the qualifiers taking the final double chance.

That way you have a 1 in 6 chance of winning a Conference Title and 1 in 18 chance of a Premiership.

More things to win, fairer draw.

Conference shoulds be set up as

2WA + Essendon or Carlton + Richmond or Hawthorn + 2 Other Vic
2QLD + Essendon or Carlton + Richmond or Hawthorn + 2 Other Vic
2SA + Collingwood + Melbourne + 2 NSW

That travel is more equal, teams will have to travel similar distances.

the 2 + 2 + 2 conference will travel slightly more but only shorter trips compared to the others.

The Fixtureing could be set that of the teams interstate not in you conference you only play one from each state home and one from each state away.

i.e. if you are in the Qld Conference 1 year you wouild play Freo at Home and West Coast Away and the next it would be West Coast at Home and Freo away.

[Johnny Member]

I'm confused, didn't we sign the deal to play at Docklands? I can't remember what happened, but didn't we have the choice of what ground to play at?

While we are obviously being "stiffed" in terms of what we should get, I would have thought that we should have negotiated a better deal to begin with - or we should have gone elsewhere.

When we signed that deal, we didn't really have much bargaining power.

It was locked in money (the gate was guaranteed) which was what we needed to get us out of the s***.

The catch of course was, that when we hit our straps, the deal was costing us money.

[SainterSoul]

So...in the long run, it was a bad deal to sign?

[stevie]

if theres two teams in the league you reckon they have the same chance of winning a flag if there was 22 teams in the league??


if yes, it would explain a lot around here

Are we talking about 2 teams or 22. Not a great example but no worse than your lotto one. Can please explain any logic in that all. How many flags have we won. One. How many years have we played. 114. How many sides have we played against. Between 4 and 17. Has GC made it harder for anyone likely to win the flag this year. No.

Why will not anyone answer why we havent got about 10 flags.

We haven't been in 10 Grand Finals?

[plugger66]

I'm confused, didn't we sign the deal to play at Docklands? I can't remember what happened, but didn't we have the choice of what ground to play at?

While we are obviously being "stiffed" in terms of what we should get, I would have thought that we should have negotiated a better deal to begin with - or we should have gone elsewhere.

When we signed that deal, we didn't really have much bargaining power.

It was locked in money (the gate was guaranteed) which was what we needed to get us out of the s***.

The catch of course was, that when we hit our straps, the deal was costing us money.

The deals have now changed at both Etihad and the G where you have to make a minimum of 100K what ever is the crowd. You can obviously make more than that like we will on Friday.

[plugger66]

I am sorry I see the big picture and I am also sorry i want to keep all the clubs in the AFL.

How did you feel about the AFL desperately trying to relocate North to the Gold Coast?

You have previously tole me they didnt try hard enough. Surely you can make up your mind.

[stevie]

My main gripe with the fixture is teams playing each other twice before they've even plated another team once. Ludicrous!

And I wouldn't gave a prob with only 17 games from next year, with annual rotating of venue

[plugger66]

My main gripe with the fixture is teams playing each other twice before they've even plated another team once. Ludicrous!

And I wouldn't gave a prob with only 17 games from next year, with annual rotating of venue

I certainly dont want to lose 5 weeks and am pretty sure many others dont either but even forgetting that is the fact you would get much less for the TV rights and I doubt any player would take a pay cut even though they play less games. I know they cant just up and leave because there is no where else to go but it would be very harsh to take a 20% pay cut. Also less money for the AFL means clubs will go for sure. Less sponsorship for the clubs as well.

[bigcarl]

I wouldn't gave a prob with only 17 games from next year, with annual rotating of venue

Good solution. Would affect TV ratings/money, though, and to the AFL that is paramount.

[Thinline]

24 hour football, 365 days a year.

It's the only answer.

[Johnny Member]

So...in the long run, it was a bad deal to sign?

Considering it may have saved us from going under, not really.


Having the gate guaranteed in the dark times may have saved the club.

[plugger66]

I wouldn't gave a prob with only 17 games from next year, with annual rotating of venue

Good solution. Would affect TV ratings/money, though, and to the AFL that is paramount.

So true because it seems unlike you they want to keep every club which includes ours.

[Johnny Member]

I am sorry I see the big picture and I am also sorry i want to keep all the clubs in the AFL.

How did you feel about the AFL desperately trying to relocate North to the Gold Coast?

You have previously tole me they didnt try hard enough. Surely you can make up your mind.

How do you feel about the AFL desperately trying to relocate a Melbourne club?

[bergsone]

Drop the nab games,play each side twice

[plugger66]

Drop the nab games,play each side twice

34 games. I dont think so. Ormond football ground wouldnt be available as we have cricket as does every ground except Etihad, Subiaco and Adelaide which will when they move to Adelaide Oval.

[plugger66]

I am sorry I see the big picture and I am also sorry i want to keep all the clubs in the AFL.

How did you feel about the AFL desperately trying to relocate North to the Gold Coast?

You have previously tole me they didnt try hard enough. Surely you can make up your mind.

How do you feel about the AFL desperately trying to relocate a Melbourne club?

I think it is a good idea if they want to go. They havent desperately done it yet though. They have tried through endorsements but it hasnt been taken up.

[stevie]

I have to admit it plugger... every comment you make is clinically valid whilst couched in a whisp of neutrality.

But it fires up most of us! Prolly cos you are right!

This isn't a criticism of you or anyone, just an observation!

[bergsone]

Never said play in cricket season,7 days in a week,why play just weekends,keep hearing how proffesional game is now,anyway its a tv game now,great to watch games monday to thursday,beats whats on tv now

[Johnny Member]

I am sorry I see the big picture and I am also sorry i want to keep all the clubs in the AFL.

How did you feel about the AFL desperately trying to relocate North to the Gold Coast?

You have previously tole me they didnt try hard enough. Surely you can make up your mind.

How do you feel about the AFL desperately trying to relocate a Melbourne club?

I think it is a good idea if they want to go. They havent desperately done it yet though. They have tried through endorsements but it hasnt been taken up.

So you don't want to keep all clubs? And the AFL doesn't either?


You're all over the place now.

[plugger66]

I am sorry I see the big picture and I am also sorry i want to keep all the clubs in the AFL.

How did you feel about the AFL desperately trying to relocate North to the Gold Coast?

You have previously tole me they didnt try hard enough. Surely you can make up your mind.

How do you feel about the AFL desperately trying to relocate a Melbourne club?

I think it is a good idea if they want to go. They havent desperately done it yet though. They have tried through endorsements but it hasnt been taken up.

So you don't want to keep all clubs? And the AFL doesn't either?


You're all over the place now.

That is a confusing statement. Is sydney not a club? Tell my mate who played at Sth melbourne they have nothing to do with sydney or his dad who also played there.