Getting the 4 points...

[prwilkinson]

Just thought I'd start a thread for everyone to throw around ideas of different ways or strategies the guys could get the job done on Friday night. It's pretty obvious Collingwood are a well oiled machine at the minute and it's going to be tough.

If we win, how do people see the team getting the four points? A shut down game? Really physical perhaps?

I thought the last quarter against Freo was interesting because as the old saying goes..... You tend to start a match the way you finish your last... and we were certainly up and about & moving the ball quickly. The first quarter on Friday night could be a real cracker.

[Cairnsman]

I don't think it will happen but if it does it will probably be more a case of the Pies having an off night. Just being a realist.

[SaintPav]

I don't think it will happen but if it does it will probably be more a case of the Pies having an off night. Just being a realist.

If we win and BJ and Roo have good nights they will still be struggling becuause the filth had a bad night...yep good point. that makes sense to me.

[dragit]

I don't think it will happen but if it does it will probably be more a case of the Pies having an off night. Just being a realist.

So what you are saying is that even if we beat them soundly, you have already decided that it is because the pies were having an off night, not that we are good enough…

GF 1 was not that long ago, we can match them, we have matched them and we are starting to play good footy again.

You're not being a realist, you're saying that we aren't good enough, even if we win…

[Cairnsman]

I don't think it will happen but if it does it will probably be more a case of the Pies having an off night. Just being a realist.

If we win and BJ and Roo have good nights they will still be struggling becuause the filth had a bad night...good point. that makes sence to me.

I see you are still having identity issues.

[Cairnsman]

I don't think it will happen but if it does it will probably be more a case of the Pies having an off night. Just being a realist.

So what you are saying is that even if we beat them soundly, you have already decided that it is because the pies were having an off night, not that we are good enough…

GF 1 was not that long ago, we can match them, we have matched them and we are starting to play good footy again.

You're not being a realist, you're saying that we aren't good enough, even if we win…

Did you mean GF2 was not that long ago?

[dragit]

I don't think it will happen but if it does it will probably be more a case of the Pies having an off night. Just being a realist.

So what you are saying is that even if we beat them soundly, you have already decided that it is because the pies were having an off night, not that we are good enough…

GF 1 was not that long ago, we can match them, we have matched them and we are starting to play good footy again.

You're not being a realist, you're saying that we aren't good enough, even if we win…

Did you mean GF2 was not that long ago?

No, do you only remember the losses?

[Legendary]

GF1 was a supreme effort of planning and defensive strategy.

However were were still well behind at half-time and we looked gone, with one less on the bench and our defence meant we hardly registered on the scoreboard.


Some creative coaching to create forward options (i.e. Gilbert), a great spell in the ruck from Koschitzke and the absolute will power of Lenny Hayes (watch the 2nd half of that game, in all of AFL football you've never seen anything like Lenny's game) got us back into it.

Mentally the Pies were a little unsure and once we got a sniff and begun moving the ball forward more freely we really got back into the game.


However anyone who thinks GF1 is a blueprint for beating the Pies is sorely wrong.

GF1 was a one-off exercise in planning, coaching and preparation that almost came off but has not been copied again by another side, and was not something that we copied when we played them in 2011.


This week IMO Lyon will simply want the Saints to continue the changes and improvements they have made over the previous 8 weeks:
- Playing-on more than any other team
- Higher possession, shorter-kicking football
- Focus on creating space and playing forward options deeper near goal
- Forward pressure


I still believe the Pies are a 3-4 goal better side than the Saints, but if we can continue to adopt some of these improvements we have made, then we may suprise them a bit and if we can get 14-15 goals on the board then anything can happen ...

The key is to put some score on the board early and create a buffer, so when the Pies have a "run" of scoring, it doesn't put us out of the game (i.e. third quarter earlier this year).


We also play Etihad better than anyone, and we need to use the small space to close it up around the midfield. We also need to use Kosi to our advantage.

Take a look at that famous game in 2009 vs. Geelong in the middle of the year. Kosi IMO was close to BOG.
He took 12 marks and nearly all of them were running up from half-forward, across the midfield etc.

This gave our small forwards and Riewoldt enough space, so we had options when we won possession.

If Kosi can play a reasonable game, it will help our structure enormously.

[Cairnsman]

I don't think it will happen but if it does it will probably be more a case of the Pies having an off night. Just being a realist.

So what you are saying is that even if we beat them soundly, you have already decided that it is because the pies were having an off night, not that we are good enough…

GF 1 was not that long ago, we can match them, we have matched them and we are starting to play good footy again.

You're not being a realist, you're saying that we aren't good enough, even if we win…

Did you mean GF2 was not that long ago?

No, do you only remember the losses?

Pretty sure I remember the wins too, however our last 2 games against the Pies have pretty much shown how far we are behind them. We've had a good run recently but I reckon Friday night will show that there is massive daylight between them and us. I reckon the order of positions on the ladder at the moment is pretty much how it will look after this years GF too. Having said that my smoky for the Pies opponents is the Eagles.

[dragit]

…anyone who thinks GF1 is a blueprint for beating the Pies is sorely wrong.

I wasn't referencing GF1 from a strategic point of view, more-so pointing out that in the biggest game of the year, on the biggest stage we were able able to match them… the fact that we couldn't do it 2 weeks in a row is a different matter…

It's pretty obvious that Collingwood are playing the best footy in the comp at the moment. However we are playing much better footy than we were last time we met and look to be still adjusting to a new game-plan.

I think we have the potential to match them this week and not just if the Pies have an off night… We are a good side and we are still improving as the year goes on.

[Thinline]

By any measure, a win by us on Friday would be a massive boilover, the biggest of the year. Probably easily.

I hardly see in shame in suggesting that.

FFS they are red hot. Eagles aside, our 'run' has seen us beat teams we should probably beat.

We have to sustain our new 'best' for four quarters, something we've not done yet. I'm not sure it's actually physically possible (yet) either.

One thing is certain: we simply cannot compete without Roo being up and about. His effort needs to be otherworldly AND he needs to kick goals.

We need a lot to go right.

But our effort can go a long way to make them do wrong.

That seems the critical thing.

[SainterK]

I think the difference this time will be the combination between attack and defence, Saints are far more balanced in this respect.

You could almost argue that last time, the tags were released because while the defensive side was holding up quite well, the boys just couldn't hit the scoreboard themselves as (I believe) they were still in transition of learning the new tweaks to the gameplan.

Have to be competitive in the midfield, then have to look like scoring.

[totallyfrank]

I don't think it will happen but if it does it will probably be more a case of the Pies having an off night. Just being a realist.

So what you are saying is that even if we beat them soundly, you have already decided that it is because the pies were having an off night, not that we are good enough…

GF 1 was not that long ago, we can match them, we have matched them and we are starting to play good footy again.

You're not being a realist, you're saying that we aren't good enough, even if we win…

Did you mean GF2 was not that long ago?

No, do you only remember the losses?

Pretty sure I remember the wins too, however our last 2 games against the Pies have pretty much shown how far we are behind them. We've had a good run recently but I reckon Friday night will show that there is massive daylight between them and us. I reckon the order of positions on the ladder at the moment is pretty much how it will look after this years GF too. Having said that my smoky for the Pies opponents is the Eagles.

yeah, pretty hard to not remember the losses when our last 4 games against them resulted in 3 spankings and a draw for no wins.

Regardless, you just never know!

[dragit]

Pretty sure I remember the wins too, however our last 2 games against the Pies have pretty much shown how far we are behind them. We've had a good run recently but I reckon Friday night will show that there is massive daylight between them and us. I reckon the order of positions on the ladder at the moment is pretty much how it will look after this years GF too. Having said that my smoky for the Pies opponents is the Eagles.

Why would you only remember the past 2 games and not the week before when we drew with them?

The only side to beat the eagles in the past 9 matches was us, were the eagles having an off night too?

You don't think we've improved since our last match against the pies?

If the pies don't have an off night, how much will they smash us by?
Give us a figure for massive daylight?

[spert]

Watched a bit of a Pies replay the other day, and their mids and onballers move fast and deep into their forward line at every chance, and the ball is kicked deep at every chance- the deeper the ball is in, the harder it is to get out. Other than that, they rely heavily on run from the backline. So for us to get the 4 points, our midfield need to get first possession, and also make sure their defensive game is working well. The forwards will need to really work on their defensive game too, especially if they lose the one-on-one contests. I would love to see RL use Roo on a wing for this game, just to have that big presence in the middle of the ground, with the ability to run into the back or forward half.

[dragit]

If Riewoldt is triple-teamed as per usual, we'd be smart to use him as a decoy, as we've seen even he can't beat 3 opponents in the air…

It's no good for his confidence being pushed under the ball at every contest.

But this would require some pretty solid work from the rest of our forward line.

[SaintPav]

I don't think it will happen but if it does it will probably be more a case of the Pies having an off night. Just being a realist.

If we win and BJ and Roo have good nights they will still be struggling becuause the filth had a bad night...good point. that makes sence to me.

I see you are still having identity issues.

more sense from you.

[Solar]

If Riewoldt is triple-teamed as per usual, we'd be smart to use him as a decoy, as we've seen even he can't beat 3 opponents in the air…

It's no good for his confidence being pushed under the ball at every contest.

But this would require some pretty solid work from the rest of our forward line.

Watching the replay today and must say this could be a goer. FOr at least the first half.

Thus we really need at least one medium forward to fill in for gamble. Be it walsh, johnson or lynch. If we have geary as our sub we can afford to look at a third tall.

[Cairnsman]

By any measure, a win by us on Friday would be a massive boilover, the biggest of the year. Probably easily.

I hardly see in shame in suggesting that.

FFS they are red hot. Eagles aside, our 'run' has seen us beat teams we should probably beat.

We have to sustain our new 'best' for four quarters, something we've not done yet. I'm not sure it's actually physically possible (yet) either.

One thing is certain: we simply cannot compete without Roo being up and about. His effort needs to be otherworldly AND he needs to kick goals.

We need a lot to go right.

But our effort can go a long way to make them do wrong.

That seems the critical thing.

Aggree on Roo, he has to return to 2009 form for us to close the gap, him and few others.

[saintspremiers]

I consider a loss by less than 30 points as a win this week.

[Johnny Member]

No one beats Collingwood in a shoot out.

We need to stop them scoring.


As much as it pains me to say that, as I've been critical of our focus on 'stop them first then worry about socring ourselves second' strategy over the past few years - but it's the only way to beat Collingwood.

[plugger66]

I consider a loss by less than 30 points as a win this week.

I consider that a 5 goal defeat.

[dcstkfc]

Got to win the clearances.

Which judging on the stats this year, would seem highly unlikely.

Our defence can hold on very, very well, but realistically we'd need to get at least 45 % of the game spent in our forward half, which means winning it out of the middle, and locking it in.

If Kosi can start well and worry Maxwell and O'Brien, then we might be more able to lock it in.

Ideally, Rooey, Kosi, Milney and Schneids (with BJ occasionally as well) are all looking like dangerous targets, forcing Collingwood's defenders to be accountable.

Armo has a big role to play as well with his inside 50 pressure.


The other thing is to see how our new-found 'elan' as Michael Gleeson dubbed it in today's Age stands up. If we are able to move the ball swiftly and precisely out of defence, it makes a huge difference. Gwilt is a massive loss in this respect.

It's a challenge of epic proportions, they are playing as well as any team in living memory.

[St Lenny]

Do the same as we did in round 1 for 4 quarters instead of two.

[degruch]

I think we have the potential to match them this week and not just if the Pies have an off night… We are a good side and we are still improving as the year goes on.

I think this is spot on dragit...there's a defeatest attitude creeping back into the supporter base when it comes to Collingwood, hopefully the team doesn't feel the same way. There were some encouraging signs against them last game, and we've come a long way since.

In respect to GF1, I'm stretching to remember how it went tactically, but was a similar game to the one where Roo went down in the H&A season, so there must be something in it. We didn't win GF1 because WE had an off game, we didn't win GF2 because we'd spent our chips.