Actually how great is Stephen Milne?

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

Milney has been discussed a lot in the media of late, and he has always polarised a lot fans. He is a player you either love or hate, and that opposition fans love to hate.

But where does he rank amongst the greats? Does he perform when it counts? Here we discuss it in a little more detail...

http://www.redwhiteandblack.com.au/2011 ... hen-milne/

[Sainternist]

I don't think this is just a case of "Milney chokes in the big games."

It has also has got a lot to do with our inability to score goals against the top sides. It's no secret that The Filth were the first to get former inside information on how RL's strategy works. Obviously, the likes of Geelong, Hawthorn etc have cottoned on to Malthouse's method of holding us at bay.

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

I don't think this is just a case of "Milney chokes in the big games."

It has also has got a lot to do with our inability to score goals against the top sides. It's no secret that The Filth were the first to get former inside information on how RL's strategy works. Obviously, the likes of Geelong, Hawthorn etc have cottoned on to Malthouse's method of holding us at bay.

"RL's strategy" would have filtered out to the league anyway - it's a copycat competition.

[thejiggingsaint]

Ahhhhhhhhh! Milney! I LOVE the guy! Loved him since the first time I saw him (NO! not in THAT way silly! ) I was there at "the dome we call home" back in 2001 when we played Sydney and he scored a couple of goals....I used to call him "Mr excitement" as he did so many unpredictable and astounding things. Stevie Milne is a CHARACTER and wears the heart on the sleeve. As for not doing it in big games...well Kosi hasn't set the yarra on fire in "big games" but I love the guy just the same. Milney! You beauty!!! You star!!! Always a hero!!!! Small in physical stature but a heart as big as texas!!!!

[hungry for a premiership]

Stephen Milne is a bloody legend.

Heart of gold.

When the criticism of him not performing in big games is leveled, it is simply to assess his greatness on the scale of greatest-of-all-time. On an average scale of the life of an afl player, he's a great, no doubt about it. When ranking him against the great small forwards of all time, then the fact that he hasn't, for example, played a great game in a winning GF, ie Bartlett, Matthews, means that this counts against him on this scale of greatness.

[desertsaint]

poor article - check any forward to compare the percentage of goals kicked on poor vs quality opposition. add to that our poor form in the first half of he season when we played those teams. not really a fair analysis.

[saintspremiers]

Just a self promotion article about a posters website.

Come on mate - how about a top 8 Vs bottom 8 pie chart for his whole career not just 16 games out of 200+ ???

[goddardisgod]

Just a self promotion article about a posters website.

Come on mate - how about a top 8 Vs bottom 8 pie chart for his whole career not just 16 games out of 200+ ???

Oh noes!!! Actual work!

[Superboot]

Probably at his peak now.

Has matured out of all recognition, and no longer tries to run around the man on the mark!

[Mr Magic]

Statistics can be used to bolster/detract any pov.

It might be a better guide to his overall worth if you checked the % of the Team total of score + score assists he provided in all games.

Again it's only my perception but he seems to have been much more heavily involved in assists over the past couple of years than previously?

It's also misleading to declare teams top/bottom 8.
How were those bottom 8 teams going when we played against them? How were we going at that time?
Same applies for Top 8 teams.

We haven't even played Sydney yet, and they're currently a top 8 team
How many games have we played against opposition that were top 8 when we played them? (and vice a versa)

The statistics and pie chart you've produced are, IMO, too limited to give an accurate depiction of his season.

[Cairnsman]

He's a whole lot better since RL arrived at the club. Great clubman.

[perfectionist]

I can't think of any player who has kicked more goals against stronger opposition than weaker opposition. John Colman, Peter Hudson, Peter McKenna, Tony Lockett, all kicked more goals against weaker opposition than against the top clubs. That's why no player has ever kicked 10 goals in a grand final yet it has been done dozens of times in other games. Stephen Milne averages just over 2 goals per game over a long career. He kicked 2 behinds in 2009 GF (almost everyone else missed getable shots on that day), 2 goals in 2010 GF1 and 2 goals in GF2. There does not seem much of a case for underperformance there. We all know that, with the slightest bit of luck, we could have had one or two flags in the last two years. The fact that we won neither cannot be put done to Stephen Milne. He is the best small forward in the history of the game.

[saintspremiers]

He's a whole lot better since RL arrived at the club. Great clubman.

True.

Partially because he matured naturally late compared to most but mainly because GT had NFI how to handle him.

[stkildathunda]

Tony Lockett, all kicked more goals against weaker opposition than against the top clubs.

But werent we the weakest team, so that would mean he kicked his goals against stronger opposition

[InkerSaint]

Losing teams by definition have more goals scored against them.

Teams that lose more games than they win end up in the bottom eight.

Show me a comparison across the league of every team's 2 or 3 leading goalkickers across 2 or 3 seasons and let's see what the results are.

Or a fairer comparison might be the ratio of goal-scoring to goalless games. But again it has to include players across the comp.

The analysis as it stands sheds no light at all, except for "Milne kicks goals" and "bottom eight teams concede more goals than top eight teams". Hardly the stuff of revelation.

[GrumpyOne]

Where is Milney on the all-time Saints goal-kicking list?

Pure talent above him, plenty of talent below.

Says it all really.

[saintlarry]

Just had a look at riewoldt vs top 8 sides this year, 4 goals in 7 games.
5 games of zero goals.
Far more damning ratio than Milnes.

Also, only seven of our 17 games this year have been against currently bottom 8 sides, only about 40%. His ratio is about where you'd expect it to be. Hopefully the % will sky rocket come friday

[perfectionist]

Where is Milney on the all-time Saints goal-kicking list?

Pure talent above him, plenty of talent below.

Says it all really.

1. Tony Lockett: 898 goals in 183 games for an average of 4.9
2. Bill Mohr: 735, 195, 3.8
3. Stewart Loewe: 594, 321, 1.9
4. Stephen Milne: 476, 230, 2.1
5. Nick Riewoldt: 463, 213, 2.2
6. Fraser Gehrig: 390, 165, 2.4
7. Allan Davis: 308, 173, 1.8
8. Barry Breen: 308, 300, 1.0
9. Kevin Neale: 301, 256, 1.2
10. Peter Everitt: 299, 180, 1.7
11. George Young: 284, 108, 2.6
12. Nicky Winmar: 283, 230, 1.2
13. Billy Young: 274, 94, 2.9
14. Peter Bennett: 258, 103, 2.5
15. Darrel Baldock: 237, 119, 2.0

Yep, says it all.

Of the 11,998 players who have played VFL/AFL football, he is currently ranked number 54 on the all time goal kicking chart. Injury notwithstanding, he will enter the top 50 in the not too distant future. For a player of his height, that's a pretty good effort. Enjoy it while you can.

[barks4eva]

1. Tony Lockett: 898 goals in 183 games for an average of 4.9
2. Bill Mohr: 735, 195, 3.8
3. Stewart Loewe: 594, 321, 1.9
4. Stephen Milne: 476, 230, 2.1
5. Nick Riewoldt: 463, 213, 2.2
6. Fraser Gehrig: 390, 165, 2.4
7. Allan Davis: 308, 173, 1.8
8. Barry Breen: 308, 300, 1.0
9. Kevin Neale: 301, 256, 1.2
10. Peter Everitt: 299, 180, 1.7
11. George Young: 284, 108, 2.6
12. Nicky Winmar: 283, 230, 1.2
13. Billy Young: 274, 94, 2.9
14. Peter Bennett: 258, 103, 2.5
15. Darrel Baldock: 237, 119, 2.0

Of the 11,998 players who have played VFL/AFL football, he is currently ranked number 54 on the all time goal kicking chart. Injury notwithstanding, he will enter the top 50 in the not too distant future. For a player of his height, that's a pretty good effort. Enjoy it while you can.

Wow that is impressive AND to think if some imbecile had his way Milne would have played his last game for St kilda in 2006.

What a FAIR DINKUM clown!

Milne is an absolute legend!

[milney044]

Milne kicks more goals against poorer opposition? You don't say!!

I'd like to know a stat on games where we have won by 10 points or less and how many goals he has kicked in those games.

I find he tends to get the team going when we're in need of a spark - you could even use the Gold Coast game for example when the Suns had several shots on goal for a number of behinds. We kick it down our end once and Milney converts; those goals really hurt the opposition.

[Spinner]

Just a self promotion article about a posters website.

Come on mate - how about a top 8 Vs bottom 8 pie chart for his whole career not just 16 games out of 200+ ???

Exactly right...

Read it and thought the same thing. The article and its stats and analysis are void because its not for a whole career.

And only lighted up Geelong game? He turned the game with three goals.

Also took a telling contested grab in the GF1, kciked two I remember...

[gringo]

Remember when he started he was a miniature full forward and lead our goal kicking with a run of goal kicking from set shots that was some kind of record at one point. Then as Roo and G train took scoring away he completely reinvented his game to be one of the best opportunists in the league. Ross moved him up into midfield runs and back and always just adapts. The mark of a great player is thier ability to adapt to what ever is thrown their way. Harvey was a marvel in that he just played through so many eras, Milney is on his way now and will be a legend of our club.

[St. Luke]

Wow that is impressive AND to think if some imbecile had his way Milne would have played his last game for St kilda in 2006.

What a FAIR DINKUM clown!

Milne is an absolute legend!

I hate quoting you when you're right.....but you're right!

[jays]

one of the best small forwards ever

[spert]

A pity he has no big bodies doing good enough work down in the forward line, which would allow him to do the crumbing role a whole lot better instead of trying to be a marking target -he does that reasonably well, but it shouldn't be his role. With Roo and Schneider just travelling, it leaves a lot to Milne the crumber, as the only goal kicking hope, and he has impressed me with his application this season. I wan't him to carry that form into the GF this year and top off his career with the big one.