Could ‘ve – Should’ve – But Didn’t = has cost the

[WinnersOnly]

Could ‘ve – Should’ve – But Didn’t = has cost the SAINTS dearly !

I thought I would go through the process of looking at the SAINTS drafting and list management over the past 5 years and to be honest it is nothing short of abysmal! The more you look at it the more embarrassing it becomes – I can’t believe how the people involved in these decisions are still at the club?

2006 National Draft
#9 David Armitage St Kilda = 45 games 25 goals
#10 Nathan Brown Collingwood = 50 games KPP GF winning team
#12 James Frawley Melbourne = 77 games KPP All Aus selection
#13 Jack Riewoldt = 85 games 185 goals Coleman Medal winner

#27 Brad Howard St Kilda = 2 games
#28 Chris DAWES Collingwood = 43 games GF winning FF
#29 Eric McKenzie WCE = 50 games KPP backmen
#37 Todd Goldstein NM = 54 games exceptional ruckman

2006 Rookie Draft
#9 Clint Jones St Kilda = 91 games (good selection)
#25 Luke Van Rheenen St Kilda = 0 games no longer on list
#26 Brent McCaffer Collingwood = 30 games still on senior list
#27 Jarrod Harbrow GCS = 87 games & attracted WB good trade selections

NOTE: From a list management perspective we were looking for midfielders and obviously overlooked some excellent KPP talent in the national draft. The poor list management continues…

Poor draft!


2007 National Draft
#9 Ben McEvoy Stkilda = 47 games developing ruckman
#10 Patrick Dangerfield Adelaide = 59 games 70 goals Rising Star
#12 Cyril Rioli Hawthorn = 76 games 90 goals
#42 Jack Steven St Kilda = 24 games (good selection)
#70 Eljay Connors St Kilda = 0 games (wasted senior list position)

2007 Rookie Draft
#8 Glen CHIVERS St Kilda = 0 games delisted
#24 Luke Miles St Kilda = 2 games delisted
#25 Jared Petrenko Adelaide = 30 games still small forward
#40 Ed Curnow Carlton = 12 games still on list

NOTE: From a list management perspective again we overlooked best available to fill our needs and took McEvoy at #9. I would have taken Dangerfield or Rioli at #9 and got a ruckman with a later pick. McEvoy will be good but will he ever be the value of a goal kicking mid I very much doubt it.

Average daft!


2008 National Draft
#13 Tom LYNCH St Kilda = 5 games
#18 Luke Shuey WCE = 23 games this year’s Rising Star.
#29 Dayne Beams Collingwood = 52 games 52 goals & GF player
#74 Paul CAHILL St Kilda = 0 games likely to be delisted.
#75 Shane Savage Hawthorn = 18 games hard at it forward.

2008 Rookie Draft
#13 Zac Dawson St Kilda = 76 games (Brown or McKenzie ?)
#29 Tom Simpkin St Kilda = 2 games still developing
#58 Steven Gaertner St Kilda = 0 games delisted
#69 Lachlan Keeffe Collingwood = 4 games developing tall forward
#71 Ross Tungatulum St Kilda = 0 games delisted
#81 Matt Suckling Hawthorn = 21 games (elite kicking skills)

NOTE: From a list management perspective why didn’t the Saints look at McKenzie or the Brown twins the previous year. Tom Lynch will never be the player Shuey or Beams have already become.

Poor draft!


2009 National Draft = it still hurts!
#16 Andrew Lovett St Kilda = 0 games (trade cost approx 500k)
#20 Nathan Fyfe Freo = 35 games (next superstar from west)
#21 Ryan Bastinac NM = 30 games (highly valued mid)
#30 Luke Ball Collingwood = 183 games (44 Collingwood) St Kilda club champion – GF player (disgraceful loss)
#32 Nicholas Winmar St Kilda = 2 games (developing)
#38 Sam Reid Swans = 18 games 15 goals KPP forward
#42 Nathan Vardy = 8 games developing ruckman/forward

2009 Rookie Draft
#20 Mark Hutchins St Kilda = 0 games delisted
#24 Alex Silvagni Freo = 20 games KPP player was in our own back yard yet over looked.

NOTE: SAINTS of old looking for the quick fix and trading for other clubs duds! We were screaming out for speed but they simply over looked far too much quality again attempting to fill needs rather than drafting best available.

Extremely Poor draft!


2010 National Draft
#24 Jamie Cripps St Kilda = 4 games (will be ok)
#26 Jack Darling WCE = 17 games 15 goals superstar missed!
#45 Sam Crocker St Kilda = 0 games (small developing mid)
#47 Alex FASOLO Collingwood = 6 games 9 goals readymade mid.

2010 Rookie Draft
#24 Tom Curren St Kilda = 0 games
#37 Nick Lower Freo = 16 games
#41 Warwick Andreoli St Kilda = 0 games
#51 Wayde Twomey Carlton = 2 games

NOTE: Once again RL convinces the recruiters to draft on a needs basis rather than going for best available talent. Missing Nathan Fyfe and Jack Darling in consecutive years is a huge loss and would have made a significant difference to our forward line set ups.

Average draft!

RL has obvioulsy now acknowledged the clubs extremely poor drafting record - however we have to ask ourselves who is to blame for the above decisions Recruiters or Coach?

[samwell]

hindsight is a wonderful thing..

could do a similar post for every team in the comp though?? even gold coast!!

[Spinner]

The McEvoy Draft 07 is a great draft for us.

Would like to see who would be rucking in place of McEvoy had we gone for a latter pick.

Lets not forget he is 21 and our best home grown ruck prospect since Spider.



Also, a lot of players have developed with opportunity.

Riewoldt - Richardson

Reid/Brown - Prestigiacomo/Clement

Frawley - Whole backline

Bit hard when you're fighting grandfinals in consecutive years.....

Also, dont know the value of including rookie 2020 persepctives.... Lets not forget they were passed over by everyone multiple times, and sometimes multiple drafts.

[desertsaint]

happy with 2007 - very happy.
the rest -fair enough to criticise - woeful.

[WinnersOnly]

hindsight is a wonderful thing..

could do a similar post for every team in the comp though?? even gold coast!!

Go back and read the write ups on the players we haven't taken - they are exactly there current status quo!

[WinnersOnly]

The McEvoy Draft 07 is a great draft for us.

Would like to see who would be rucking in place of McEvoy had we gone for a latter pick.

Lets not forget he is 21 and our best home grown ruck prospect since Spider.



Also, a lot of players have developed with opportunity.

Riewoldt - Richardson

Reid/Brown - Prestigiacomo/Clement

Frawley - Whole backline

Bit hard when you're fighting grandfinals in consecutive years.....

Also, dont know the value of including rookie 2020 persepctives.... Lets not forget they were passed over by everyone multiple times, and sometimes multiple drafts.

Dawson SIMPSON was taken at Selection # 34 in the same draft - he was considered a better ruckman than McEvoy at the Murray Bushrangers or what about taking Todd Goldstein the year before?

The idea of adding the rookies was to highlight further shortcomings in our recruiting.

[Junction Oval]

A very interesting and worthwhile post WO. It must have taken a while to assemble.

It just confirms that it can be like picking needles in a haystack. 2007 was quite good for us and I thought that Luke Miles deserved more games. However, we need to be "consistently better" with our quality of selections and I would rate our Recruiting efforts as poor, overall.

Who is to blame? - firstly, you would have to have inside knowledge to answer this correctly, but my feeling is that too much responsibility was left to the (poor) Recruiters. At the end of the day, Ross would have to give his tick to the selection - perhaps he wasn't close enough to the market and relied on "advice."

[Stillwaiting]

It would be intersting to see the same assesment done on all clubs, I am sure we are not alone in some pooor drafting decisions.

Just like the 16(I think it was 16) draft selctions that were not used on NDS, allowing him to come to the Saints.

[plugger66]

What a lot of crap. Every club missed most of those guys but may have got them second or third round. Also every club has crap drafts otherwise they would always be on top because in hindsight you can always find 4 or 5 stars in the draft but one club doesnt pick them all even though they probably had the chance. Cant stand hindsight post becaise they are totally non realistic.

[St. Luke]

Only one team wins it every season. Does that mean the 15 other clubs have failed? Look at the Lions now, after reigning supreme with a triple premiership stint they're now an embarrassment. Our time will come, one day.

Whilst I think we're no chance this season...there's still a chance! And I like those chances

[Mr Magic]

That fact of the matter is that I hear Melbourne people now 'second-guessing' their selection of Scully as #1
'We should have taken Trengrove and Martyn'

Everybody in hindsight can make an argument for different selections.

Does this mean that all selections work out?
Absolutely not.
But to sit here and give an 'informed opinion' on which players were taken when is just plain silly (IMO)

We know absolutely nothing about any conversations between the coach and recruiting team as to what we were looking for, and why we preferred one player over others.

We can guess, but that is all.
And our gues is predicated purely on what we selected.
We have no way of knowing whether we would have taken others if we'd had the option.

Jack Darling keeps being 'thrown up' as an example of 'poor recruiting' on our behalf.
All 17 teams (including WCE) chose to overlook him until WCE finally selected him with a later pick Even they didn't 'rate' him as highly as those on here decrying our decision not to take him.
Was everybody wrong (including WCE) not to take him with their first choice, given that he is such a 'gun' and was so 'obvious' beforehand?

Some young players develop better.
Some young players develop quicker.
Some young players never develop to required AFL level.

It seems to me on a quick perusal of other teams selections over the same period you can make the following observations:-

All teams select to a plan - not just taking the best available.
All teams have had 'misses' with relatively high draft picks
All teams had had successes with 'smoky' selections
Because of WCE subterfuge we took Ball instead of Judd which, due to OP, has turned out to be, by far, the absolute worst 'howler' of any draft pick we had.

Overall we've done pretty well from our 'recycling'.
There are many 'hits' over the journey (since 2000) that I believe far outweigh the 'misses'.

[SaintPav]

Jimmy Gwilt should have played in the 2009 GF. Dempster should have gone with Chapman all day and Sam Fisher should have played in the forward line in the second half to break the Mackie tag and kick a goal or two given that Roo was struggling.

I reckon Mackie would have gone with Fish. Jimmy should have played instead of Mini.

[mad saint guy]

I hate to agree with plugger but that's a shocking post. The only selection there that was truly a poor decision was Howard in the second round of a very strong draft. Armitage would have been top 5 in out B&F this year before being moved forward and McEvoy will be one of the best rucks in the comp for the next eight years. Rookie picks are always high risk and we've had a reasonable turn out from them; it's laughable that you're saying Andreoli is a failure when we could have taken a guy that has played two games for Carlton. The selections that I think have cost us are the yearly crop of recycled hacks who spend a year or two on the list preventing kids from getting experience before being delisted. If we hadn't wasted time with the likes of Charlie Gardiner, Colm Begley, Adam Pattison etc then we'd be in a better position now.

[Thinline]

How many times has this thread been regurgitated?

[plugger66]

How many times has this thread been regurgitated?

Not enough it seems.

[kosifantutti23]

Instead of using your 20/20 hindsight why don't you compare the player we took with the next player taken in the draft. It would be a much more valid comparison than just waiting 1 - 4 years and seeing who looks like a better player.

[spert]

We should have drafted all the players who we could have drafted, but didn't draft, and who went on to play in premeirships- if only Dr. Who was one of our recruiters!!

[saintspremiers]

The sensible analysis would be to look at all clubs and do this exercise, then rank it with a ladder.

[Cairnsman]

Jimmy Gwilt should have played in the 2009 GF. Dempster should have gone with Chapman all day and Sam Fisher should have played in the forward line in the second half to break the Mackie tag and kick a goal or two given that Roo was struggling.

I reckon Mackie would have gone with Fish. Jimmy should have played instead of Mini.

I marvel at your football knowledge. Where do you find the time to learn fishing.

[markp]

[older saint]

Jack Darling = Superstar! LMAO

[Finna]

Could ‘ve – Should’ve – But Didn’t = has cost the SAINTS dearly !

I thought I would go through the process of looking at the SAINTS drafting and list management over the past 5 years and to be honest it is nothing short of abysmal! The more you look at it the more embarrassing it becomes – I can’t believe how the people involved in these decisions are still at the club?

2006 National Draft
#9 David Armitage St Kilda = 45 games 25 goals
#10 Nathan Brown Collingwood = 50 games KPP GF winning team
#12 James Frawley Melbourne = 77 games KPP All Aus selection
#13 Jack Riewoldt = 85 games 185 goals Coleman Medal winner

#27 Brad Howard St Kilda = 2 games
#28 Chris DAWES Collingwood = 43 games GF winning FF
#29 Eric McKenzie WCE = 50 games KPP backmen
#37 Todd Goldstein NM = 54 games exceptional ruckman

2006 Rookie Draft
#9 Clint Jones St Kilda = 91 games (good selection)
#25 Luke Van Rheenen St Kilda = 0 games no longer on list
#26 Brent McCaffer Collingwood = 30 games still on senior list
#27 Jarrod Harbrow GCS = 87 games & attracted WB good trade selections

NOTE: From a list management perspective we were looking for midfielders and obviously overlooked some excellent KPP talent in the national draft. The poor list management continues…

Poor draft!


2007 National Draft
#9 Ben McEvoy Stkilda = 47 games developing ruckman
#10 Patrick Dangerfield Adelaide = 59 games 70 goals Rising Star
#12 Cyril Rioli Hawthorn = 76 games 90 goals
#42 Jack Steven St Kilda = 24 games (good selection)
#70 Eljay Connors St Kilda = 0 games (wasted senior list position)

2007 Rookie Draft
#8 Glen CHIVERS St Kilda = 0 games delisted
#24 Luke Miles St Kilda = 2 games delisted
#25 Jared Petrenko Adelaide = 30 games still small forward
#40 Ed Curnow Carlton = 12 games still on list

NOTE: From a list management perspective again we overlooked best available to fill our needs and took McEvoy at #9. I would have taken Dangerfield or Rioli at #9 and got a ruckman with a later pick. McEvoy will be good but will he ever be the value of a goal kicking mid I very much doubt it.

Average daft!


2008 National Draft
#13 Tom LYNCH St Kilda = 5 games
#18 Luke Shuey WCE = 23 games this year’s Rising Star.
#29 Dayne Beams Collingwood = 52 games 52 goals & GF player
#74 Paul CAHILL St Kilda = 0 games likely to be delisted.
#75 Shane Savage Hawthorn = 18 games hard at it forward.

2008 Rookie Draft
#13 Zac Dawson St Kilda = 76 games (Brown or McKenzie ?)
#29 Tom Simpkin St Kilda = 2 games still developing
#58 Steven Gaertner St Kilda = 0 games delisted
#69 Lachlan Keeffe Collingwood = 4 games developing tall forward
#71 Ross Tungatulum St Kilda = 0 games delisted
#81 Matt Suckling Hawthorn = 21 games (elite kicking skills)

NOTE: From a list management perspective why didn’t the Saints look at McKenzie or the Brown twins the previous year. Tom Lynch will never be the player Shuey or Beams have already become.

Poor draft!


2009 National Draft = it still hurts!
#16 Andrew Lovett St Kilda = 0 games (trade cost approx 500k)
#20 Nathan Fyfe Freo = 35 games (next superstar from west)
#21 Ryan Bastinac NM = 30 games (highly valued mid)
#30 Luke Ball Collingwood = 183 games (44 Collingwood) St Kilda club champion – GF player (disgraceful loss)
#32 Nicholas Winmar St Kilda = 2 games (developing)
#38 Sam Reid Swans = 18 games 15 goals KPP forward
#42 Nathan Vardy = 8 games developing ruckman/forward

2009 Rookie Draft
#20 Mark Hutchins St Kilda = 0 games delisted
#24 Alex Silvagni Freo = 20 games KPP player was in our own back yard yet over looked.

NOTE: SAINTS of old looking for the quick fix and trading for other clubs duds! We were screaming out for speed but they simply over looked far too much quality again attempting to fill needs rather than drafting best available.

Extremely Poor draft!


2010 National Draft
#24 Jamie Cripps St Kilda = 4 games (will be ok)
#26 Jack Darling WCE = 17 games 15 goals superstar missed!
#45 Sam Crocker St Kilda = 0 games (small developing mid)
#47 Alex FASOLO Collingwood = 6 games 9 goals readymade mid.

2010 Rookie Draft
#24 Tom Curren St Kilda = 0 games
#37 Nick Lower Freo = 16 games
#41 Warwick Andreoli St Kilda = 0 games
#51 Wayde Twomey Carlton = 2 games

NOTE: Once again RL convinces the recruiters to draft on a needs basis rather than going for best available talent. Missing Nathan Fyfe and Jack Darling in consecutive years is a huge loss and would have made a significant difference to our forward line set ups.

Average draft!

RL has obvioulsy now acknowledged the clubs extremely poor drafting record - however we have to ask ourselves who is to blame for the above decisions Recruiters or Coach?

Very original post.

I bet you just love your life.....

Move on.........

[saintjake]

Looking back on the drafts is a pathetic excuse abd an I'll-informed whack at people at the club.
The people we chose - some were duds (see the delisted ones)
Some have been given slim to none opportunity. Where as at the other clubs they get brought in and given a chance to shine. Jack Steven and Ben Mcevoy have finally been given a opportunity in the positions they play for a long period of time.
We can't look back and have a whack at the recruiting staff when some of the kids we have/had on our list might be genuinely good players but we will never know

[plugger66]

Looking back on the drafts is a pathetic excuse abd an I'll-informed whack at people at the club.
The people we chose - some were duds (see the delisted ones)
Some have been given slim to none opportunity. Where as at the other clubs they get brought in and given a chance to shine. Jack Steven and Ben Mcevoy have finally been given a opportunity in the positions they play for a long period of time.
We can't look back and have a whack at the recruiting staff when some of the kids we have/had on our list might be genuinely good players but we will never know

Who are ones we had that could have been genuinely good players? Doubt we got rid of any myself.

[matrix]

fergus

gun
kicked ten once in an sanfl game and the old man knew someone at the club (??)

but alas injury cut him down in his prime
didnt get spaded

was shoveled