Point of subbing Lynch off...

[Bernard Shakey]

Ah Finey. Much loved by Saints supporters. Why?

You will find that he isn't or at least not the ones I have spoken to. He's not a bad bloke but he's on a hiding to nothing with his allegiance to any team, especially St Kilda given the contoversial nature of his show.

Many on here think the sun shines....

[Teflon]

Ah Finey. Much loved by Saints supporters. Why?

You will find that he isn't or at least not the ones I have spoken to. He's not a bad bloke but he's on a hiding to nothing with his allegiance to any team, especially St Kilda given the contoversial nature of his show.

Many on here think the sun shines....

Hes a cabbage who speaks like a hill billy.

[gringo]

Can't stand finey, like being related to Hitler -a shameful association.

[saintsRrising]

...he is not a good developer of talent.......

????

Dal was good before Lyon arrived...but is much better now.

Milne is a more complete player too.
The Peake running around at present looks better than the one that left Freo
Ray..ditto
Dempster...ditto
Schneider...ditto

Gwilt seemed to get better....

Hell even Polo is looking better than he did at Richmond.

For a coach that is no good at developing players...he seems to go ok in improving players from what I can see.


Problem is not Lyon not developing players...it is the crap recruiting of kids we had over a sustained period

Last season we at last turned the corner....and bar injury some of those players would have played more games this season that they have.


But the seasons prior to that overall the saints were under-achievers in recruiting kids.

So don't blame Lyon for not playing the kids in previous years, nor him for not developing them....the harsh realty is our recruiting of kids, bar last year, in recent times has been dreadful. The young players with talent have been given a go, and the good ones are coming through.

Lyon has just been a realist and and has gotten the best at what he had...and no wonder he turned so heavily to cast-offs to polish given the lean pickings that Bevo had presented him with kids.


The problem is not Lyon developing kids...but there being a lack of quality kids to develop.

The average Saints supporter vastly overates the young talent we picked prior to 2010. Lyon does not.

[spert]

I think Lyon is all about developing game-winning processes and putting players into roles in that process, more so than developing players alone, and in times gone by, having a few big stars didn't necessarily get you a premiership. My opinion is that he will recruit players who fill a certain role and perform a certain task, and they won't necessarily have to be a star player that he is after. When we look at who might get dropped or who might come in, it's time to think of what the players did or didn't do as part of the RL plan.

[skeptic]

...he is not a good developer of talent.......

????

Dal was good before Lyon arrived...but is much better now.

Milne is a more complete player too.
The Peake running around at present looks better than the one that left Freo
Ray..ditto
Dempster...ditto
Schneider...ditto

Gwilt seemed to get better....

Hell even Polo is looking better than he did at Richmond.

For a coach that is no good at developing players...he seems to go ok in improving players from what I can see.


Problem is not Lyon not developing players...it is the crap recruiting of kids we had over a sustained period

Last season we at last turned the corner....and bar injury some of those players would have played more games this season that they have.


But the seasons prior to that overall the saints were under-achievers in recruiting kids.

So don't blame Lyon for not playing the kids in previous years, nor him for not developing them....the harsh realty is our recruiting of kids, bar last year, in recent times has been dreadful. The young players with talent have been given a go, and the good ones are coming through.

Lyon has just been a realist and and has gotten the best at what he had...and no wonder he turned so heavily to cast-offs to polish given the lean pickings that Bevo had presented him with kids.


The problem is not Lyon developing kids...but there being a lack of quality kids to develop.

The average Saints supporter vastly overates the young talent we picked prior to 2010. Lyon does not.

I think he's referring more to young talent

I think RL does better with guys that have at leasta medium level of AFL experience

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Someone explain it to me...

He is a kid developing, why not give him a full run at it, especially against against a group of other kids....he was not hopeless across hf....even if, why not gove him a crack across hb....

Ross has little or no patience with inexperienced players, certainly puts no faith in them....maybe thats why they have FA confidence and often go from talented kids to good ordinary (safe) role players...

Armitage, after a great game last week, was in for one centre bounce tonight, and played 90% fwd....

Both should do themselves a favour....

I agree pretty much completely, especially with the "Ross has little or no patience with inexperienced players, certainly puts no faith in them....maybe thats why they have FA confidence and often go from talented kids to good ordinary (safe) role players..." part. I hope Pelchan makes some positive changes there.

Again I'll make the comparison with Collingwood. They seem to put incredible faith in their "kids" and it's no surprise that so many of them come in and really hit the ground running. While ours in the past 3-4 years have generally come in and stuttered and spluttered along and you get the feeling they're more worried about making a mistake than just going out and playing and doing what they're capable of doing.

Collingwood have brought 4 in for their first AFL games just this year, despite being ridiculously dominant. Would we have had the guts to do that, if we were going as well as they are? Our recent history would suggest "hell-no". Collingwood keep making gutsy moves and they keep paying off. They have well and truly passed us and look to be getting further and further ahead, with no let-up in sight. Are we going to suddenly catch them without making some seriously gutsy calls? You've got to be kidding!

Lynch has shown plenty this year (down back in the VFL and forward in the AFL) and is one of very few to have come along recently who have looked remotely capable of playing a marking/lead-up role in our forward line. With his ability, surely he would get better if we just showed some faith in him and really backed him in. Like they probably would have a long time ago if he was at Collingwood, for instance. I would not at all be surprised if we then saw a Jack Steven or Ben McEvoy type improvement in him. Lets not forget, those two pretty much only improved out of sight when they were given much more responsibility. Ben, as a result of Gardi not being available and Jack as a result of Lenny going down.

Would either of them be going as well as they are now had our hands not been "forced" with those injuries? If they were still playing the "bit-parts" they were previously? I strongly doubt it, based on the way Ross and co generally go about things. Jack, especially, had been struggling, until he was moved into the middle against Melbourne. If Lenny was still in the team he'd probably have been sent back to the VFL, instead of being moved into the middle. We seem to only make these moves when we have little other choice. They're largely reactionary. Maybe it's time we got on the front foot for once and took a chance on someone without being "forced" to, to make us stronger.

If we don't take some serious chances we're not going to win the Premiership this year. It's that simple. The likes of Collingwood, Geelong and maybe even Hawthorn and Carlton will be too strong for us in the end, which is not what we want. At least it's not what I want.

The step up from VFL to AFL is apparently bigger than maybe ever before (especially in regards to pace of play) and I've heard plenty of times in the past year or so that leaving even those with lots of AFL experience in the VFL for more than a few weeks at a time is a really bad move, as they're very likely to struggle with the pace of AFL, if they return.

This is why the likes of Lynch need an extended go to see if they're up to it, because if those with years of AFL experience struggle with adjusting to the pace of AFL, after an extended go in the VFL, then imagine how hard it is going to be for those like Lynch, who have been in the VFL for years (and have little AFL experience)?

Lynch has shown with dominant performances in the VFL that he has what it takes, but we're unlikely to see it for St Kilda, unless we really back him in and show some confidence in him and give him a few weeks at it, without him constantly worrying that with one poor game he'll be back at Sandy, or subbed off.

Given his age and ability (he didn't captain Vic Metro in the Under 18 Championships and then get drafted in the first round and have 30+ possession games in the VFL this year because he has no ability) he could just as easily improve just as quickly as Jack and Ben have this year. They went from either being sent back to the VFL (Ben) or likely to be sent back to the VFL (Jack, if he hadn't improved out of sight once moved into the middle against Melbourne) to being two of the best in our side, within just a few weeks. If Lynch improved in a similar way, in the same sort of timeframe, we could have a much stronger team (and forward line) for the finals.

Does anyone reckon we'll have a strong enough forward line to win this year's Premiership without someone like him really stepping it up?
We surely need to take a few punts if we're going to win it this year and backing him in may be as good a bet as any.

[barks4eva]

Someone explain it to me...

He is a kid developing, why not give him a full run at it, especially against against a group of other kids....he was not hopeless across hf....even if, why not gove him a crack across hb....

Ross has little or no patience with inexperienced players, certainly puts no faith in them....maybe thats why they have FA confidence and often go from talented kids to good ordinary (safe) role players...

Armitage, after a great game last week, was in for one centre bounce tonight, and played 90% fwd....

Both should do themselves a favour....

I agree pretty much completely, especially with the "Ross has little or no patience with inexperienced players, certainly puts no faith in them....maybe thats why they have FA confidence and often go from talented kids to good ordinary (safe) role players..." part. I hope Pelchan makes some positive changes there.
Again I'll make the comparison with Collingwood. They seem to put incredible faith in their "kids" and it's no surprise that so many of them come in and really hit the ground running. While ours in the past 3-4 years have generally come in and stuttered and spluttered along and you get the feeling they're more worried about making a mistake than just going out and playing and doing what they're capable of doing.
Collingwood have brought 4 in for their first AFL games just this year, despite being ridiculously dominant. Would we have had the guts to do that, if we were going as well as they are? Our recent history would suggest "hell-no". Collingwood keep making gutsy moves and they keep paying off. They have well and truly passed us and look to be getting further and further ahead, with no let-up in sight. Are we going to suddenly catch them without making some seriously gutsy calls? You've got to be kidding!
Lynch has shown plenty this year (down back in the VFL and forward in the AFL) and is one of very few to have come along recently who have looked remotely capable of playing a marking/lead-up role in our forward line. With his ability, surely he would get better if we just showed some faith in him and really backed him in. Like they probably would have a long time ago if he was at Collingwood, for instance. I would not at all be surprised if we then saw a Jack Steven or Ben McEvoy type improvement in him. Lets not forget, those two pretty much only improved out of sight when they were given much more responsibility. Ben, as a result of Gardi not being available and Jack as a result of Lenny going down.
Would either of them be going as well as they are now had our hands not been "forced" with those injuries? If they were still playing the "bit-parts" they were previously? I strongly doubt it, based on the way Ross and co generally go about things. Jack, especially, had been struggling, until he was moved into the middle against Melbourne. If Lenny was still in the team he'd probably have been sent back to the VFL, instead of being moved into the middle. We seem to only make these moves when we have little other choice. They're largely reactionary. Maybe it's time we got on the front foot for once and took a chance on someone without being "forced" to, to make us stronger.
If we don't take some serious chances we're not going to win the Premiership this year. It's that simple. The likes of Collingwood, Geelong and maybe even Hawthorn and Carlton will be too strong for us in the end, which is not what we want. AT least it's not what I want.
The step up from VFL to AFL is apparently bigger than maybe ever before (especially in regards to pace of play) and I've heard many times in the past year or so that leaving even those with lots of AFL experience in the VFL for more than a few weeks at a time is a really bad move, as they're very likely to struggle with the pace of AFL, if they return.
This is why the likes of Lynch need an extended go to see if they're up to it, because if those with years of AFL experience struggle with adjusting to the pace of AFL, after an extended go in the VFL, then imagine how hard it is going to be for those like Lynch, who have been in the VFL for years (and have little AFL experience)?
Lynch has shown with dominant performances in the VFL that he has what it takes, but we're unlikely to see it for St Kilda, unless we really back him in and show some confidence in him and give him a few weeks at it, without constantly worrying that with one poor game he'll be back at Sandy, or subbed off.
Given his age and ability (he didn't captain Vic Metro in the Under 18 Championships and then get drafted in the first round because he has no ability) he could just as easily improve just as quickly as Jack and Ben have this year. They went from either being sent back to the VFL (Ben) or likely to be sent back to the VFL (Jack, if he hadn't improved out of sight once moved into the middle against Melbourne) to being two of the best in our side, within just a few weeks. If Lynch improved in a similar way in the same sort of timeframe, we could have a much stronger team (and forward line) for the finals.
Does anyone reckon we'll have a strong enough forward line to win this year's Premiership without someone like him really stepping it up?

THIS, EXACTLY, PRECISELY, DITTO 100%

Summed it up perfectly!

Lynch should be IN and most definitely ahead of Gamble in the pecking order

Walsh should have been getting games ages ago

If Blake comes in ahead of Walsh then it's just wasting time and will make no tangible difference whatsoever.

We need an upside from left field otherwise we are just making up the numbers.

Walsh should play this week, it's getting way beyond a joke!

[bigred]

Makes you want to run out and fart at thunder eh.....

[joffaboy]

[
Lynch should be IN and most definitely ahead of Gamble in the pecking order

pfft

Lynch is as slow as treacle, has poor second efforts, and doesn't cover the ground as he should.

To have Lynch ahead of Gamble who is now doing the link work Riewoldt used to do, freeing Riewoldt up the ground, borders on comical.

Lynch just wouldn't be able to do the job Gamble does.

he was subbed off on Saturday because he was poor and totally ineffectual.

deserved it and should go back to the VFL until he understand the meaning of second effort.

[SainterK]

It's not like there is a massive gulf between them, Lynch is 20, Gamble 23, it's not like he is an old veteran or anything.

Gamble has been playing a link role that allows Roo to hover closer to goal, Roo hovering close to goal has been massive in our improved forward pressure.

Personally I loved the way the forward line was shaping up prior to Roo's suspension, it looked dangerous, and obviously going by the Crows and Eagles jumping at shadows....it felt dangerous.

[Johnny Member]

Let's be honest, if Ross Lyon is going to keep an in-form Luke Ball on the bench in the crucial stages of a Grand Final because he has doubts over his fitness levels - we can't be surprised at him subbing off a 5 game player with plenty of doubts over his fitness in a critical H&A game!

[BigMart]

Statisically, for time on the ground.....lynch was more effective than gamble...who, might i add, was beaten one out....half a dozen times....

The point again

Even if lynch was poor.... How is sitting on the pine going to improve him???

Let him learn what its about

[BigMart]

APS......very nice piece of commentary...

Thought out, and on the money, i would suggest...

Havent heard logic like that, since statsman posted...