I'm starting my own "I love Gamble thread".

[plugger66]

He is s***......well maybe not s***, but only just a player....will get founder out by bigger defenders

That is exactly what you said. I reckon the first 3 words suggests you did call him s***.

[BigMart]

And the next four words???

[plugger66]

And the next four words???

Yep you said maybe not but you didnt day definitely not. No need for any Saints player to be called s*** even if you half say no he isnt afterwards.

[gringo]

My impression is that if you haven't found a spot in the team even if you are a good player your career is over- the lifelines thrown to second hand players are not common. Recruiters get squeamish when it comes to recycled players. Gamble is still at the starting point of his career 22 games or something so far before 2011. He had Johnson, Byrne, Stokes, Chapman, and about three other forward cameo players in the same size category at the Cats. He was unlikely to steal a spot from that lot and got thrown out. Lots of players that develop slowly (especially smaller ones) get dumped before showing what they can do. Goddard had to be kept because he was the poster boy for our reconstruction, if he had been pick 26 in the draft he would be at the Gippsland Power now ripping it up and no one would care.

[dragit]

You have just asked who went from ordinary to good at 23

James Gwilt
In the VFL in 2009 at 22....not in best 22...his only games were as an inconsistent fwd
Won the most improved in 2010 and played every game and was critical at 23

Zac dawson
Delisted from hawthorn at 22
Recruited by stk and cemented a spot in 22 at 23

Sam Fisher
At casey fo the most of 2004, when he was 22.....was an improving player in 2005 at 23 , in 2006 he went to third in the b&f at 24

Clinto Jones
Played 3 games at 23 as a running winger, a further 9 in the same role in 2008 at 24....was never going to make it, then ross switched him to a tagging role where he was almost the best in the AFL

James Gwilt played a ripping game in his second game, an interstate final no less - 2 goals. After that he didn't have many opportunities for about 4 years. He still managed 15 games in 09 in a team that broke plenty of records, so he was in the best 22 for most of the year, probably should have played in front of a couple of others for the finals too
Is Zac Dawson much better than 2 years ago? I don't think so, he's a solid spoiler, still can't kick, still lacks confidence… but does his best on some tough opponents
Sam Fisher was drafted at 21, in his first season (2004 where we won the first 10 games - pretty hard to break into that side) he played the last half of the season and has barely missed a game since. Good player from the very start.
Clint Jones probably has gone from ordinary to good, but still I'm not sure how many sides would draft him due to his disposal…
Gram again didn't get many opportunties prior to 06 - 9 games, but granted he has improved considerably.
McQualter & Blake have been pretty consistent throughout in my opinion…

[Johnny Member]

And the next four words???

Yep you said maybe not but you didnt day definitely not. No need for any Saints player to be called s*** even if you half say no he isnt afterwards.

Man, seriously.

Leave the dude alone. f***** hell, he puts forward an opinion, which is exactly what this place is for.


You're like a dog with a bone. You'll argue over anything.


It's like a lynch mob trying to run someone out of town sometimes in here! Or to put it in modern terms, like a high school bullying situation!

[dragit]

You have just asked who went from ordinary to good at 23

I will concede though that I'm sure it happens, but probably even less so after being rejected from another club, where there is usually a good reason for the delisting…

[plugger66]

And the next four words???

Yep you said maybe not but you didnt day definitely not. No need for any Saints player to be called s*** even if you half say no he isnt afterwards.

Man, seriously.

Leave the dude alone. f***** hell, he puts forward an opinion, which is exactly what this place is for.


You're like a dog with a bone. You'll argue over anything.


It's like a lynch mob trying to run someone out of town sometimes in here! Or to put it in modern terms, like a high school bullying situation!

Yep so if you Gamble to be called s*** then fine. No piss off and mind your own business.

[BigMart]

All of those players were fringe players until 23yo

Not sure how you can see it any other way

Gwilt played 41 out of a possible 116 games until he was 23, averaging 10 posessions a game
Since then he has played 40 out of 40 averaging 18 posessions

Sam fisher played 28 out of a possible 50 until he was 23, avergaing 11 posessions a game....since, almost every game averaging over 20poss

Clinton jones played 28 out of 47 until hae was 24, averaging 14ppg....since he has played Nearly all games averaging 18ppg, whilst tagging

Andrew mcqualter played 35 out of 91 games until he was 23, averaging 11ppg....since he has played 54 out of 64 games averaging 13ppg, but playing mainly as a fp...where his goals avg went from 0.2 to 0.6

Jason blake had played 59 out of a possible 113 up until he was 23yo, avg of 10ppg....since 2005 he has played 134 out of 159 (Missing 8 this season) averaging 15ppg

Zac had played 14 out of 66 until he was 22, since being delisted he haslayed 56 out of 63

They all secured their starting ots aroundt that age

[Johnny Member]

And the next four words???

Yep you said maybe not but you didnt day definitely not. No need for any Saints player to be called s*** even if you half say no he isnt afterwards.

Man, seriously.

Leave the dude alone. f***** hell, he puts forward an opinion, which is exactly what this place is for.


You're like a dog with a bone. You'll argue over anything.


It's like a lynch mob trying to run someone out of town sometimes in here! Or to put it in modern terms, like a high school bullying situation!

Yep so if you Gamble to be called s*** then fine. No piss off and mind your own business.

If your mind numbing incessant arguing over anything was restricted to Gamble being called s***, then fine.

But it's not. It's f****** constant, and you tag people and harass them over and over and over again over the tiniest little things.


Once you start PMing those you have an issue with, instead of wrecking thread after thread, then I'll actually be able to ignore it and mind my own business! But until then, it makes it really hard to read any thread.

[BigMart]

Thats alright JM

I find it entertaining, if anything.......and you arent allowed a opinion on here from some quarters....unless it is their opinion....which is to agree with the club at every turn.....

Then they have the audacity to take the moral high ground....they are the true 'supporters' they support through thick and thin, right and wrong...

Unfortunately i dont accept defeat, mediocrity and a losing culture that well, doesnt sit well with me....giving the old 'good effort chaps' it must be white line fever or somthing i suppose

I support ross as coach, he is a beauty....but i dont believe everything he and the club do is correct....and vent when i think so....i was under the impression this place was designed as a forum for discussion and debate....not a stk love in, mutual wankfest over 44 brilliant, perfect players

The holier than thou approach by p66 is despised by many on here.....as is my 'going off half cocked' rants......at the end of the day, nothing is too personal (except the odd poster, of which p66 is not one)

I honestly reckon plugger66 is ross lyon's dad.....or paul roos....or the man himself...

[plugger66]

And the next four words???

Yep you said maybe not but you didnt day definitely not. No need for any Saints player to be called s*** even if you half say no he isnt afterwards.

Man, seriously.

Leave the dude alone. f***** hell, he puts forward an opinion, which is exactly what this place is for.


You're like a dog with a bone. You'll argue over anything.


It's like a lynch mob trying to run someone out of town sometimes in here! Or to put it in modern terms, like a high school bullying situation!

Yep so if you Gamble to be called s*** then fine. No piss off and mind your own business.

If your mind numbing incessant arguing over anything was restricted to Gamble being called s***, then fine.

But it's not. It's f****** constant, and you tag people and harass them over and over and over again over the tiniest little things.


Once you start PMing those you have an issue with, instead of wrecking thread after thread, then I'll actually be able to ignore it and mind my own business! But until then, it makes it really hard to read any thread.

Go away. i aint PMing anyone. If it is said on here it is answered or questioned on here. Dont like then bad luck. If I was here to be liked and not question bulls*** posts then i obviously wouldnt do it but as if I care if i am liked. No one even know you or me from Adam. Anyway everyone one on here likes me anyway. I would be the most popular poster on this forum and if you dont beleive me just Pm me and I will tell you why.

[Old Mate]

And the next four words???

Yep you said maybe not but you didnt day definitely not. No need for any Saints player to be called s*** even if you half say no he isnt afterwards.

Man, seriously.

Leave the dude alone. f***** hell, he puts forward an opinion, which is exactly what this place is for.


You're like a dog with a bone. You'll argue over anything.


It's like a lynch mob trying to run someone out of town sometimes in here! Or to put it in modern terms, like a high school bullying situation!

Yep so if you Gamble to be called s*** then fine. No piss off and mind your own business.

If your mind numbing incessant arguing over anything was restricted to Gamble being called s***, then fine.

But it's not. It's f****** constant, and you tag people and harass them over and over and over again over the tiniest little things.


Once you start PMing those you have an issue with, instead of wrecking thread after thread, then I'll actually be able to ignore it and mind my own business! But until then, it makes it really hard to read any thread.

Go away. i aint PMing anyone. If it is said on here it is answered or questioned on here. Dont like then bad luck. If I was here to be liked and not question bulls*** posts then i obviously wouldnt do it but as if I care if i am liked. No one even know you or me from Adam. Anyway everyone one on here likes me anyway. I would be the most popular poster on this forum and if you dont beleive me just Pm me and I will tell you why.

The more I read your posts the more I think you're just trolling this board. You sad man.

[saint tash]

And the next four words???

Yep you said maybe not but you didnt day definitely not. No need for any Saints player to be called s*** even if you half say no he isnt afterwards.

Man, seriously.

Leave the dude alone. f***** hell, he puts forward an opinion, which is exactly what this place is for.


You're like a dog with a bone. You'll argue over anything.


It's like a lynch mob trying to run someone out of town sometimes in here! Or to put it in modern terms, like a high school bullying situation!

Yep so if you Gamble to be called s*** then fine. No piss off and mind your own business.

If your mind numbing incessant arguing over anything was restricted to Gamble being called s***, then fine.

But it's not. It's f****** constant, and you tag people and harass them over and over and over again over the tiniest little things.


Once you start PMing those you have an issue with, instead of wrecking thread after thread, then I'll actually be able to ignore it and mind my own business! But until then, it makes it really hard to read any thread.

Go away. i aint PMing anyone. If it is said on here it is answered or questioned on here. Dont like then bad luck. If I was here to be liked and not question bulls*** posts then i obviously wouldnt do it but as if I care if i am liked. No one even know you or me from Adam. Anyway everyone one on here likes me anyway. I would be the most popular poster on this forum and if you dont beleive me just Pm me and I will tell you why.

The more I read your posts the more I think you're just trolling this board. You sad man.

Yeah right. After that many posts, I suspect he would have wandered off by now. At least he calls is as he sees it and many on here hate reality.

It's a wonderful thing. Speaking of which. Does anyone think players like Gamble, Polo, Jones, Ray. Dawson, Gram, Clarke, Baker, McQualter and Geary have much more upside.

That's what worries me and that's just 10 players but a fair whack of the list.

Ok I'm in front of the flaming squad.

[BigMart]

Unfortunately no

They are capable of good games.....but consistently do not deliver qualty performances

For a variety of reasons

All of those players have had many seasons to make an impact....some have, and are on the way down....some never made their potential....some never had much to start with

[plugger66]

And the next four words???

Yep you said maybe not but you didnt day definitely not. No need for any Saints player to be called s*** even if you half say no he isnt afterwards.

Man, seriously.

Leave the dude alone. f***** hell, he puts forward an opinion, which is exactly what this place is for.


You're like a dog with a bone. You'll argue over anything.


It's like a lynch mob trying to run someone out of town sometimes in here! Or to put it in modern terms, like a high school bullying situation!

Yep so if you Gamble to be called s*** then fine. No piss off and mind your own business.

If your mind numbing incessant arguing over anything was restricted to Gamble being called s***, then fine.

But it's not. It's f****** constant, and you tag people and harass them over and over and over again over the tiniest little things.


Once you start PMing those you have an issue with, instead of wrecking thread after thread, then I'll actually be able to ignore it and mind my own business! But until then, it makes it really hard to read any thread.

Go away. i aint PMing anyone. If it is said on here it is answered or questioned on here. Dont like then bad luck. If I was here to be liked and not question bulls*** posts then i obviously wouldnt do it but as if I care if i am liked. No one even know you or me from Adam. Anyway everyone one on here likes me anyway. I would be the most popular poster on this forum and if you dont beleive me just Pm me and I will tell you why.

The more I read your posts the more I think you're just trolling this board. You sad man.

Strange person.

[Old Mate]

And the next four words???

Yep you said maybe not but you didnt day definitely not. No need for any Saints player to be called s*** even if you half say no he isnt afterwards.

Man, seriously.

Leave the dude alone. f***** hell, he puts forward an opinion, which is exactly what this place is for.


You're like a dog with a bone. You'll argue over anything.


It's like a lynch mob trying to run someone out of town sometimes in here! Or to put it in modern terms, like a high school bullying situation!

Yep so if you Gamble to be called s*** then fine. No piss off and mind your own business.

If your mind numbing incessant arguing over anything was restricted to Gamble being called s***, then fine.

But it's not. It's f****** constant, and you tag people and harass them over and over and over again over the tiniest little things.


Once you start PMing those you have an issue with, instead of wrecking thread after thread, then I'll actually be able to ignore it and mind my own business! But until then, it makes it really hard to read any thread.

Go away. i aint PMing anyone. If it is said on here it is answered or questioned on here. Dont like then bad luck. If I was here to be liked and not question bulls*** posts then i obviously wouldnt do it but as if I care if i am liked. No one even know you or me from Adam. Anyway everyone one on here likes me anyway. I would be the most popular poster on this forum and if you dont beleive me just Pm me and I will tell you why.

The more I read your posts the more I think you're just trolling this board. You sad man.

Yeah right. After that many posts, I suspect he would have wandered off by now. At least he calls is as he sees it and many on here hate reality.

It's a wonderful thing. Speaking of which. Does anyone think players like Gamble, Polo, Jones, Ray. Dawson, Gram, Clarke, Baker, McQualter and Geary have much more upside.

That's what worries me and that's just 10 players but a fair whack of the list.

Ok I'm in front of the flaming squad.

Nah I reckon he just likes to argue and stir sh1t up which is trolling. He comments on others comments instead of the actual topic at hand.

To answer your question about the players you've listed. I don't believe that they have any more upside but that isn't to say that they don't belong in the team. Jones and Ray certainly belong, the others are either getting on in age or fringe players in and out of the seniors. Dawson is settled in the team but I reckon he plays because we simply don't have anyone else that can fill that role.

[Cairnsman]

And the next four words???

Yep you said maybe not but you didnt day definitely not. No need for any Saints player to be called s*** even if you half say no he isnt afterwards.

Man, seriously.

Leave the dude alone. f***** hell, he puts forward an opinion, which is exactly what this place is for.


You're like a dog with a bone. You'll argue over anything.


It's like a lynch mob trying to run someone out of town sometimes in here! Or to put it in modern terms, like a high school bullying situation!

Yep so if you Gamble to be called s*** then fine. No piss off and mind your own business.

If your mind numbing incessant arguing over anything was restricted to Gamble being called s***, then fine.

But it's not. It's f****** constant, and you tag people and harass them over and over and over again over the tiniest little things.


Once you start PMing those you have an issue with, instead of wrecking thread after thread, then I'll actually be able to ignore it and mind my own business! But until then, it makes it really hard to read any thread.

Go away. i aint PMing anyone. If it is said on here it is answered or questioned on here. Dont like then bad luck. If I was here to be liked and not question bulls*** posts then i obviously wouldnt do it but as if I care if i am liked. No one even know you or me from Adam. Anyway everyone one on here likes me anyway. I would be the most popular poster on this forum and if you dont beleive me just Pm me and I will tell you why.

WoW! Normally a 'private' costs 50 large so you must be one special internet enitity to be getting one for free. I hope you kiss and tell.

[Bernard Shakey]

Is 23 really your peak age though?

No! Peake was 28 last week.

[SainterK]

Is 23 really your peak age though?

No! Peake was 28 last week.

Well that's a good example, thanks Bernie.

[Middo]

Unfortunately no

They are capable of good games.....but consistently do not deliver qualty performances

For a variety of reasons

All of those players have had many seasons to make an impact....some have, and are on the way down....some never made their potential....some never had much to start with

Some never had much potential.......? Gee "Coach" wonder you don't have clubs begging you to join list management !!! To make a list surely you must have something to work with ..? And yes nick names are fine just not into name dropping champ..

[BigMart]

Get real champ....

Not even sure what the f*** your on about.....and niether do you, i believe...

[Middo]

Sorry....

I call him siposs ..... If that makes you happy. Although his name is Arryn.

Make sure you dont refer to any players by nickname either then...... It will make you sound as if you actually know them...

The reference of ' coach' surely a crack because of an uninformed comment directed at me... Very cheap....

Play against some guys who are snipers....

Lol so Arryn is his nickname ...? just noticed you used his first name and not Johnsons...and yes I accept your apology Coach .

[dragit]

All of those players were fringe players until 23yo

Not sure how you can see it any other way

Gwilt played 41 out of a possible 116 games until he was 23, averaging 10 posessions a game
Since then he has played 40 out of 40 averaging 18 posessions

Sam fisher played 28 out of a possible 50 until he was 23, avergaing 11 posessions a game....since, almost every game averaging over 20poss

Clinton jones played 28 out of 47 until hae was 24, averaging 14ppg....since he has played Nearly all games averaging 18ppg, whilst tagging

Andrew mcqualter played 35 out of 91 games until he was 23, averaging 11ppg....since he has played 54 out of 64 games averaging 13ppg, but playing mainly as a fp...where his goals avg went from 0.2 to 0.6

Jason blake had played 59 out of a possible 113 up until he was 23yo, avg of 10ppg....since 2005 he has played 134 out of 159 (Missing 8 this season) averaging 15ppg

Zac had played 14 out of 66 until he was 22, since being delisted he haslayed 56 out of 63

They all secured their starting ots aroundt that age

Sorry to re-hash the thread…
To be honest, nearly any opposition fan would say that Jones, McQualter, Blake & Dawson are still just 'ordinary' players…
A rise in possession numbers doesn't mean a great deal as I'm sure the team disposal rates have risen a similar amount in those years.
I'll stick by saying that Sam Fisher was a good player when he arrived, he came 6th in the B&F in 2005 - playing 21 games in his second year - hardly fringe… I'd say the only reason he didn't get a game for the first half of 2004 was that we'd won 10 straight, pretty hard to crack that side at the time…
Gwilt, sure, he is a much improved player although I held more hope for him from watching his first game than any of Gambles… unfortunately.

So that's how I can see it any other way.

What about players who are delisted going from 'ordinary' to 'good' after 23?
(not delisted for disciplnary reasons obviously)

Rodan? Was Ray considered good at the dogs?

[gringo]

A Richmond supporter mate says he would trade for Clint jones in a flash and rates him higher than most on here. Zac Dawson will get heaps of interest from opposition clubs when his contract negotiations start, not sure if those two are considered ordinary outside forums.