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White Winmar wrote:The other area that rarely gets a mention is the filth's "bottom six". Our so called bottom six gets done to death in the media, but the filth's has never been mentioned. Let's see, Wood, McCarthy, Goldsack, Toovey, Blair and Reid. No champions in that lot. When isolated, their lack of skill only becomes more apparent.
Nevermind that 3 or 4 of those guys aren't in their best 22…
Aside from that I'm confident that all 6 of those players are better kicks than Dawson, Baker, Blake, Jones, Gilbert & Raph, throw in Kosi & Dempster for good measure.
Our bottom 6 put absolutely everything into their footy, but their combined skill-level makes Ross Lyon look like a genius for getting us to 2 GF's
Behind Play wrote:Swans where lucky, the filth should have won by at least 5 goals...poor kicking.
I cannot see anyone beating them, which is unfortunate.
We are along way off
I truley hope them or the cats don't win the flag.
Swans put them under pressure.
When you do that for 4 QTRS goals aint as easy as kicking to Cloke 1 out.
White Winmar wrote:The filth can be beaten by exploiting their back six. When you look at them individually, they are hardly elite, especially in the kicking department. I think they acknowledge as much because they recruited Tarrant and have thrown Leon Davis back this year. RL was on the right track last year when he played "defensive" forwards in Eddy and McQualter in an attempt to shut them down. Unfortunately neither of them were quite up to the task, but the thinking behind the tactic was right.
The other area that rarely gets a mention is the filth's "bottom six". Our so called bottom six gets done to death in the media, but the filth's has never been mentioned. Let's see, Wood, McCarthy, Goldsack, Toovey, Blair and Reid. No champions in that lot. When isolated, their lack of skill only becomes more apparent.
The other thing that escapes attention is how suspect the kicking skills of the filth's defense is when it is pressured. Their back six are all hopelessly one-sided. Did anyone see Maxwell's attempt to kick left-footed in the third quarter tonight? An under 10 would have been ashamed of it. It's the first time in years I've even see him try to kick left foot and now I understand why. O'Brien just runs around like a headless chook and bombs away, Toovey has no right side at all, nor does Reid. Added to that, the vastly over rated Heath Shaw has no left side and is only precise when he has lots of room to operate in. Like most average players.
The Swans have given the other contenders plenty to work with after tonight. Unfortunately the filth has an elite set of midfielders and a couple of excellent power forwards, but they are far from invincible. It was only last September when we almost pipped them. The personnel hasn't changed much, but obviously what is going on between the ears of the combatants has. I still reckon RL has the formula for beating them. I just think he has to take a few risks, show a bit of dash and imagination in the match-ups, such as throwing some quality forward (e.g. Goddard or Dal Santo) and we'll be a big chance.
If u consider Reid in their bottom 6 then u have NFI. Not sure about this concept of bottom 6 anymore as teams have more role players especially now with the sub.
In fact having read the rest of the OP, u really do have NFI.
If RL had the formula for beating them I suppose there was no point bringing out last year for GF1 and GF2.
White Winmar wrote:The filth can be beaten by exploiting their back six. When you look at them individually, they are hardly elite, especially in the kicking department. I think they acknowledge as much because they recruited Tarrant and have thrown Leon Davis back this year. RL was on the right track last year when he played "defensive" forwards in Eddy and McQualter in an attempt to shut them down. Unfortunately neither of them were quite up to the task, but the thinking behind the tactic was right.
The other area that rarely gets a mention is the filth's "bottom six". Our so called bottom six gets done to death in the media, but the filth's has never been mentioned. Let's see, Wood, McCarthy, Goldsack, Toovey, Blair and Reid. No champions in that lot. When isolated, their lack of skill only becomes more apparent.
The other thing that escapes attention is how suspect the kicking skills of the filth's defense is when it is pressured. Their back six are all hopelessly one-sided. Did anyone see Maxwell's attempt to kick left-footed in the third quarter tonight? An under 10 would have been ashamed of it. It's the first time in years I've even see him try to kick left foot and now I understand why. O'Brien just runs around like a headless chook and bombs away, Toovey has no right side at all, nor does Reid. Added to that, the vastly over rated Heath Shaw has no left side and is only precise when he has lots of room to operate in. Like most average players.
The Swans have given the other contenders plenty to work with after tonight. Unfortunately the filth has an elite set of midfielders and a couple of excellent power forwards, but they are far from invincible. It was only last September when we almost pipped them. The personnel hasn't changed much, but obviously what is going on between the ears of the combatants has. I still reckon RL has the formula for beating them. I just think he has to take a few risks, show a bit of dash and imagination in the match-ups, such as throwing some quality forward (e.g. Goddard or Dal Santo) and we'll be a big chance.
If u consider Reid in their bottom 6 then u have NFI. Not sure about this concept of bottom 6 anymore as teams have more role players especially now with the sub.
In fact having read the rest of the OP, u really do have NFI.
If RL had the formula for beating them I suppose there was no point bringing out last year for GF1 and GF2.
Nahhh we will save it for a rainy day.
Settle. An opinion's an opinion.
I tend to agree with you though Tash...on the Pies and the Bottom 6 concept. I honestly thought we were 20% a better team than them, right up until we were pansed in GF2. Since then, they've been playing far better individually and as a team, also fitness wise, and they are 200% above us in confidence. A lot can change in a few weeks, but I'm not sure we will suddenly catch up to the Pies...still, only takes one good game at the end of the year.
Collingwood, meet Hawks who have had the wood over them for a while, get knocked out of the finals, we wander though the finals playing hacks that are overwhelmed by the finals atmosphere (Blues and WCE) and meet the Hawks in the GF. The media love the whole down and out club back up off the mat and we win by a wobbly point kicked from a toe poke by Raph Clarke after being spotted up by Dawson. All the baggers love them and we live happily ever after, anything can happen, Cloke and Thomas may do knees while trying to inject EPO and their season looks screwed. The media may even question why the Pies have elevated levels in their tests.
Ah, the troll bears her teeth. Sucking you into revealing your true self was a bit easier than working out how to beat Collingwood. Now do us all a favour St. Trash, take yourself and your condescending crap back to where you belong. The filth forum. Hit a nerve with Ben Reid. Is his poster on your wall? What a spud he is.
I started with nothing and I've got most of it left!
White Winmar wrote:The filth can be beaten by exploiting their back six. When you look at them individually, they are hardly elite, especially in the kicking department. I think they acknowledge as much because they recruited Tarrant and have thrown Leon Davis back this year. RL was on the right track last year when he played "defensive" forwards in Eddy and McQualter in an attempt to shut them down. Unfortunately neither of them were quite up to the task, but the thinking behind the tactic was right.
The other area that rarely gets a mention is the filth's "bottom six". Our so called bottom six gets done to death in the media, but the filth's has never been mentioned. Let's see, Wood, McCarthy, Goldsack, Toovey, Blair and Reid. No champions in that lot. When isolated, their lack of skill only becomes more apparent.
The other thing that escapes attention is how suspect the kicking skills of the filth's defense is when it is pressured. Their back six are all hopelessly one-sided. Did anyone see Maxwell's attempt to kick left-footed in the third quarter tonight? An under 10 would have been ashamed of it. It's the first time in years I've even see him try to kick left foot and now I understand why. O'Brien just runs around like a headless chook and bombs away, Toovey has no right side at all, nor does Reid. Added to that, the vastly over rated Heath Shaw has no left side and is only precise when he has lots of room to operate in. Like most average players.
The Swans have given the other contenders plenty to work with after tonight. Unfortunately the filth has an elite set of midfielders and a couple of excellent power forwards, but they are far from invincible. It was only last September when we almost pipped them. The personnel hasn't changed much, but obviously what is going on between the ears of the combatants has. I still reckon RL has the formula for beating them. I just think he has to take a few risks, show a bit of dash and imagination in the match-ups, such as throwing some quality forward (e.g. Goddard or Dal Santo) and we'll be a big chance.
If u consider Reid in their bottom 6 then u have NFI. Not sure about this concept of bottom 6 anymore as teams have more role players especially now with the sub.
In fact having read the rest of the OP, u really do have NFI.
If RL had the formula for beating them I suppose there was no point bringing out last year for GF1 and GF2.
Nahhh we will save it for a rainy day.
Reid just a player.
Love these self bloated Pie fans telling us all how they only have "stars"
White Winmar wrote:It seems the general consensus on here is that we may as well turn out the lights, lock the doors and hand the cup to the filth. For all the pessimists on here, cast your minds back to 2008. Remember the invincible Geelong side that lost only one game up until the GF? Or more painfully, perhaps, 2009, when our boys looked unbeatable until round 20? We all know how those two scenarios played out. The point is, there is a long way to go until the decider. So much can, and will happen, between now and then.
I'm the first to admit the filth has looked the goods this year, but everyone seems to forget Geelong beat them. How? Well it was a good old defensive, low scoring scrap. The final margin flattered the filth as the cats would have buried them early, had they kicked accurately for goal.
The filth's defensive unit is its weakest link. I'm not saying they are all terrible players, but their back six is the least skillful and most vulnerable unit in their team. The reason they create run and opportunity from back their is they are ALLOWED to by the opposition. Look at the way the swans front half pressured them last night and look at the result. Five unanswered goals to the swans and repeated turnovers and butchering of the ball by the filth's defenders. Have another look at that part of the game on replay if you can. You'll see the panicked mistakes of Toovey, Reid, Maxwell and O'Brien and as for Heath Shaw, well you won't see him at all because the pressure was on. There was absolutely no rebound or attack created by the filth because the swans chopped off the supply at its usual source.
It seems as if the filth are considered by some to be invincible supermen. What they have is some very talented on-ballers and forwards complemented by a well-structured game plan. You don't bring down a strong opponent by targeting their strengths. You look for the weakest spot and apply pressure there. Once the integrity of the game plan is upset, the rest of the unit falls like dominoes. We saw this for a quarter and a bit last night. The challenge is to keep it up for the full game. They are beatable folks!
very good. get the backs one out and you're half a chance. harry o is a good example. one on one he gives away lots of free kicks and he gets outpositioned too much for my liking. let him run free and he will hurt you.
david king (on afl360) pointed out that to beat collingwood you have to beat the structure. with other teams it's the personnel you have to beat. individually collingwood does not have 22 talented players but they do have 22 players who can play a role effectively - champion team not team of champions.
saturday night was an aberation in terms of this season's goal kicking and perhaps should have been a 6-7 goal win. the geelong game should have been a 6 goal loss.
and btw, ben reid is far from being in collingwood's bottom 6. he will be an all australian at some point.
White Winmar wrote:It seems the general consensus on here is that we may as well turn out the lights, lock the doors and hand the cup to the filth. For all the pessimists on here, cast your minds back to 2008. Remember the invincible Geelong side that lost only one game up until the GF? Or more painfully, perhaps, 2009, when our boys looked unbeatable until round 20? We all know how those two scenarios played out. The point is, there is a long way to go until the decider. So much can, and will happen, between now and then.
I'm the first to admit the filth has looked the goods this year, but everyone seems to forget Geelong beat them. How? Well it was a good old defensive, low scoring scrap. The final margin flattered the filth as the cats would have buried them early, had they kicked accurately for goal.
The filth's defensive unit is its weakest link. I'm not saying they are all terrible players, but their back six is the least skillful and most vulnerable unit in their team. The reason they create run and opportunity from back their is they are ALLOWED to by the opposition. Look at the way the swans front half pressured them last night and look at the result. Five unanswered goals to the swans and repeated turnovers and butchering of the ball by the filth's defenders. Have another look at that part of the game on replay if you can. You'll see the panicked mistakes of Toovey, Reid, Maxwell and O'Brien and as for Heath Shaw, well you won't see him at all because the pressure was on. There was absolutely no rebound or attack created by the filth because the swans chopped off the supply at its usual source.
It seems as if the filth are considered by some to be invincible supermen. What they have is some very talented on-ballers and forwards complemented by a well-structured game plan. You don't bring down a strong opponent by targeting their strengths. You look for the weakest spot and apply pressure there. Once the integrity of the game plan is upset, the rest of the unit falls like dominoes. We saw this for a quarter and a bit last night. The challenge is to keep it up for the full game. They are beatable folks!
very good. get the backs one out and you're half a chance. harry o is a good example. one on one he gives away lots of free kicks and he gets outpositioned too much for my liking. let him run free and he will hurt you.
david king (on afl360) pointed out that to beat collingwood you have to beat the structure. with other teams it's the personnel you have to beat. individually collingwood does not have 22 talented players but they do have 22 players who can play a role effectively - champion team not team of champions.
saturday night was an aberation in terms of this season's goal kicking and perhaps should have been a 6-7 goal win. the geelong game should have been a 6 goal loss.
and btw, ben reid is far from being in collingwood's bottom 6. he will be an all australian at some point.
Go away please. Going on another clubs board really makes me worry for your intelligence. Now get back to your own and please take your no teethed friends with you.
Whether Tash or JMCP are pies fans or not- and to be honest, I don't know though I've been a bit sus on Tash for a while, she seems to have literacy issues and criminal tendencies- the point still stands. Benny Reid is a long way from being bottom 6 at the pies, and he will be all Australian one day.
Probably the weakest link in our back six at the moment is Maxy- he's struggled a bit since the kidney injury but is slowly finding form. Yeah, Shawry burns the ball a little, but Toovey is underappreciated (I think), though he still has his "Oh, Tooves" moments. There was one passage of play in the GF replay that really summed him up- worked hard, won the ball then handballed it about two feet above his teammates' head. Teammate was tackled and lost the ball, Tooves dived straight back in and won it back before turning the ball over again.
What's with all the attention from our friends from Collingwood all the sudden? I haven't seen this many opposition fan posts since Blues fans swamped the site a few years back, to blub about their decade of defeats and the wooden spoon we gave them. I wouldn't have thought Pies fans have too much to worry about re: Saints at the moment...or do they know something we don't?
saint tash wrote:If u consider Reid in their bottom 6 then u have NFI. Not sure about this concept of bottom 6 anymore as teams have more role players especially now with the sub.
In fact having read the rest of the OP, u really do have NFI.
ll:
While this is probably a bit harsh, Reid is a very good player, and definitely not in their bottom 6.
Anyway, back on topic. What the Pies have are players that know their role, and stick it. They don't have many players that are in it for themselves (Didak aside), and they back each other up constantly.
How do you overcome that? Well, get to the ball in numbers for a starter, and be prepared to run hard. Accurate kicking also helps.
Behind Play wrote:Swans where lucky, the filth should have won by at least 5 goals...poor kicking.
I cannot see anyone beating them, which is unfortunate.
We are along way off
I truley hope them or the cats don't win the flag.
Swans put them under pressure.
When you do that for 4 QTRS goals aint as easy as kicking to Cloke 1 out.
Cloke kicked 5 goal 4 and still, the horse wouldn't move Grundy till the last quarter.Collingwood kicked around 21 behinds...trust me the Swans were lucky.
Maybe they are getting ahead of themselves...lets hope.
Grantaire wrote:Whether Tash or JMCP are pies fans or not- and to be honest, I don't know though I've been a bit sus on Tash for a while, she seems to have literacy issues and criminal tendencies- the point still stands. Benny Reid is a long way from being bottom 6 at the pies, and he will be all Australian one day.
Probably the weakest link in our back six at the moment is Maxy- he's struggled a bit since the kidney injury but is slowly finding form. Yeah, Shawry burns the ball a little, but Toovey is underappreciated (I think), though he still has his "Oh, Tooves" moments. There was one passage of play in the GF replay that really summed him up- worked hard, won the ball then handballed it about two feet above his teammates' head. Teammate was tackled and lost the ball, Tooves dived straight back in and won it back before turning the ball over again.
White Winmar wrote:It seems the general consensus on here is that we may as well turn out the lights, lock the doors and hand the cup to the filth. For all the pessimists on here, cast your minds back to 2008. Remember the invincible Geelong side that lost only one game up until the GF? Or more painfully, perhaps, 2009, when our boys looked unbeatable until round 20? We all know how those two scenarios played out. The point is, there is a long way to go until the decider. So much can, and will happen, between now and then.
I'm the first to admit the filth has looked the goods this year, but everyone seems to forget Geelong beat them. How? Well it was a good old defensive, low scoring scrap. The final margin flattered the filth as the cats would have buried them early, had they kicked accurately for goal.
The filth's defensive unit is its weakest link. I'm not saying they are all terrible players, but their back six is the least skillful and most vulnerable unit in their team. The reason they create run and opportunity from back their is they are ALLOWED to by the opposition. Look at the way the swans front half pressured them last night and look at the result. Five unanswered goals to the swans and repeated turnovers and butchering of the ball by the filth's defenders. Have another look at that part of the game on replay if you can. You'll see the panicked mistakes of Toovey, Reid, Maxwell and O'Brien and as for Heath Shaw, well you won't see him at all because the pressure was on. There was absolutely no rebound or attack created by the filth because the swans chopped off the supply at its usual source.
It seems as if the filth are considered by some to be invincible supermen. What they have is some very talented on-ballers and forwards complemented by a well-structured game plan. You don't bring down a strong opponent by targeting their strengths. You look for the weakest spot and apply pressure there. Once the integrity of the game plan is upset, the rest of the unit falls like dominoes. We saw this for a quarter and a bit last night. The challenge is to keep it up for the full game. They are beatable folks!
very good. get the backs one out and you're half a chance. harry o is a good example. one on one he gives away lots of free kicks and he gets outpositioned too much for my liking. let him run free and he will hurt you.
david king (on afl360) pointed out that to beat collingwood you have to beat the structure. with other teams it's the personnel you have to beat. individually collingwood does not have 22 talented players but they do have 22 players who can play a role effectively - champion team not team of champions.
saturday night was an aberation in terms of this season's goal kicking and perhaps should have been a 6-7 goal win. the geelong game should have been a 6 goal loss.
and btw, ben reid is far from being in collingwood's bottom 6. he will be an all australian at some point.
Go away please. Going on another clubs board really makes me worry for your intelligence. Now get back to your own and please take your no teethed friends with you.
it's called perspective. i do actually have two eyes, all my teeth etc. just looking to engage in some balanced conversation. it would be very disappointing if this was not possible here.
jmcp wrote:...it's called perspective. i do actually have two eyes, all my teeth etc. just looking to engage in some balanced conversation. it would be very disappointing if this was not possible here.
Not on a Saints fan forum. Go get some perspective on the opposition board.
Can I just commend a terrific bunch of people on their seem-less transition from 'Collingwobbles' to 'Saints Footy', so graceful and humble throughout all their recents accomplishments… It's a credit to the whole establishment, from the board right through to the cheer squad. Let's hope that their plane does not go down on one of their three interstate trips a year…
Behind Play wrote:Swans where lucky, the filth should have won by at least 5 goals...poor kicking.
I cannot see anyone beating them, which is unfortunate.
We are along way off
I truley hope them or the cats don't win the flag.
Swans put them under pressure.
When you do that for 4 QTRS goals aint as easy as kicking to Cloke 1 out.
Cloke kicked 5 goal 4 and still, the horse wouldn't move Grundy till the last quarter.Collingwood kicked around 21 behinds...trust me the Swans were lucky.
Maybe they are getting ahead of themselves...lets hope.
You cant just ignore their oppositions defensive efforts in them kicking so poor - Swans played well for long periods. We did it for a half and had them severly under pressure I felt....no poor kicking then.....till we took the foot off the pedal in the second half and collapsed.
