How we can beat the filth

[White Winmar]

The filth can be beaten by exploiting their back six. When you look at them individually, they are hardly elite, especially in the kicking department. I think they acknowledge as much because they recruited Tarrant and have thrown Leon Davis back this year. RL was on the right track last year when he played "defensive" forwards in Eddy and McQualter in an attempt to shut them down. Unfortunately neither of them were quite up to the task, but the thinking behind the tactic was right.

The other area that rarely gets a mention is the filth's "bottom six". Our so called bottom six gets done to death in the media, but the filth's has never been mentioned. Let's see, Wood, McCarthy, Goldsack, Toovey, Blair and Reid. No champions in that lot. When isolated, their lack of skill only becomes more apparent.

The other thing that escapes attention is how suspect the kicking skills of the filth's defense is when it is pressured. Their back six are all hopelessly one-sided. Did anyone see Maxwell's attempt to kick left-footed in the third quarter tonight? An under 10 would have been ashamed of it. It's the first time in years I've even see him try to kick left foot and now I understand why. O'Brien just runs around like a headless chook and bombs away, Toovey has no right side at all, nor does Reid. Added to that, the vastly over rated Heath Shaw has no left side and is only precise when he has lots of room to operate in. Like most average players.

The Swans have given the other contenders plenty to work with after tonight. Unfortunately the filth has an elite set of midfielders and a couple of excellent power forwards, but they are far from invincible. It was only last September when we almost pipped them. The personnel hasn't changed much, but obviously what is going on between the ears of the combatants has. I still reckon RL has the formula for beating them. I just think he has to take a few risks, show a bit of dash and imagination in the match-ups, such as throwing some quality forward (e.g. Goddard or Dal Santo) and we'll be a big chance.

[bobmurray]

They still won..even with their dud ruckman

[saint tash]

The filth can be beaten by exploiting their back six. When you look at them individually, they are hardly elite, especially in the kicking department. I think they acknowledge as much because they recruited Tarrant and have thrown Leon Davis back this year. RL was on the right track last year when he played "defensive" forwards in Eddy and McQualter in an attempt to shut them down. Unfortunately neither of them were quite up to the task, but the thinking behind the tactic was right.

The other area that rarely gets a mention is the filth's "bottom six". Our so called bottom six gets done to death in the media, but the filth's has never been mentioned. Let's see, Wood, McCarthy, Goldsack, Toovey, Blair and Reid. No champions in that lot. When isolated, their lack of skill only becomes more apparent.

The other thing that escapes attention is how suspect the kicking skills of the filth's defense is when it is pressured. Their back six are all hopelessly one-sided. Did anyone see Maxwell's attempt to kick left-footed in the third quarter tonight? An under 10 would have been ashamed of it. It's the first time in years I've even see him try to kick left foot and now I understand why. O'Brien just runs around like a headless chook and bombs away, Toovey has no right side at all, nor does Reid. Added to that, the vastly over rated Heath Shaw has no left side and is only precise when he has lots of room to operate in. Like most average players.

The Swans have given the other contenders plenty to work with after tonight. Unfortunately the filth has an elite set of midfielders and a couple of excellent power forwards, but they are far from invincible. It was only last September when we almost pipped them. The personnel hasn't changed much, but obviously what is going on between the ears of the combatants has. I still reckon RL has the formula for beating them. I just think he has to take a few risks, show a bit of dash and imagination in the match-ups, such as throwing some quality forward (e.g. Goddard or Dal Santo) and we'll be a big chance.

Sorry to say Winmar but they are playing in third maybe second gear at the moment.

Once they crank it up she'll be all over red over.

Dont read into what they dished up tonight.

[noreason41]

The filth can be beaten by exploiting their back six. When you look at them individually, they are hardly elite, especially in the kicking department. I think they acknowledge as much because they recruited Tarrant and have thrown Leon Davis back this year. RL was on the right track last year when he played "defensive" forwards in Eddy and McQualter in an attempt to shut them down. Unfortunately neither of them were quite up to the task, but the thinking behind the tactic was right.

The other area that rarely gets a mention is the filth's "bottom six". Our so called bottom six gets done to death in the media, but the filth's has never been mentioned. Let's see, Wood, McCarthy, Goldsack, Toovey, Blair and Reid. No champions in that lot. When isolated, their lack of skill only becomes more apparent.

The other thing that escapes attention is how suspect the kicking skills of the filth's defense is when it is pressured. Their back six are all hopelessly one-sided. Did anyone see Maxwell's attempt to kick left-footed in the third quarter tonight? An under 10 would have been ashamed of it. It's the first time in years I've even see him try to kick left foot and now I understand why. O'Brien just runs around like a headless chook and bombs away, Toovey has no right side at all, nor does Reid. Added to that, the vastly over rated Heath Shaw has no left side and is only precise when he has lots of room to operate in. Like most average players.

The Swans have given the other contenders plenty to work with after tonight. Unfortunately the filth has an elite set of midfielders and a couple of excellent power forwards, but they are far from invincible. It was only last September when we almost pipped them. The personnel hasn't changed much, but obviously what is going on between the ears of the combatants has. I still reckon RL has the formula for beating them. I just think he has to take a few risks, show a bit of dash and imagination in the match-ups, such as throwing some quality forward (e.g. Goddard or Dal Santo) and we'll be a big chance.

Sorry to say Winmar but they are playing in third maybe second gear at the moment.

Once they crank it up she'll be all over red over.

Dont read into what they dished up tonight.

That's what i've been thinking all year. Even when Geelong thumped them.

It's kind of like how we were last year, just breezing through the season with both eyes on the finals.

Once the pressure environment of finals comes in, i doubt theirs many teams who will stand a chance.

[Teflon]

The filth can be beaten by exploiting their back six. When you look at them individually, they are hardly elite, especially in the kicking department. I think they acknowledge as much because they recruited Tarrant and have thrown Leon Davis back this year. RL was on the right track last year when he played "defensive" forwards in Eddy and McQualter in an attempt to shut them down. Unfortunately neither of them were quite up to the task, but the thinking behind the tactic was right.

The other area that rarely gets a mention is the filth's "bottom six". Our so called bottom six gets done to death in the media, but the filth's has never been mentioned. Let's see, Wood, McCarthy, Goldsack, Toovey, Blair and Reid. No champions in that lot. When isolated, their lack of skill only becomes more apparent.

The other thing that escapes attention is how suspect the kicking skills of the filth's defense is when it is pressured. Their back six are all hopelessly one-sided. Did anyone see Maxwell's attempt to kick left-footed in the third quarter tonight? An under 10 would have been ashamed of it. It's the first time in years I've even see him try to kick left foot and now I understand why. O'Brien just runs around like a headless chook and bombs away, Toovey has no right side at all, nor does Reid. Added to that, the vastly over rated Heath Shaw has no left side and is only precise when he has lots of room to operate in. Like most average players.

The Swans have given the other contenders plenty to work with after tonight. Unfortunately the filth has an elite set of midfielders and a couple of excellent power forwards, but they are far from invincible. It was only last September when we almost pipped them. The personnel hasn't changed much, but obviously what is going on between the ears of the combatants has. I still reckon RL has the formula for beating them. I just think he has to take a few risks, show a bit of dash and imagination in the match-ups, such as throwing some quality forward (e.g. Goddard or Dal Santo) and we'll be a big chance.

Sorry to say Winmar but they are playing in third maybe second gear at the moment.

Once they crank it up she'll be all over red over.

Dont read into what they dished up tonight.

Cr@p.

Football sides and players arent robots - you dont just "crank it up to 4th" when you want...how stupid is that?

The filth were challenged tonight and almost put to the sword by a side who were humiliated last week. How did the Swans do it? - hard work and PRESSURE which they were able to sustain for close to 4 qtrs AND they executed with skills.

We play 2 qtrs of pressure and cant hit the side of a barn under pressure. THATS the difference.

You

[ralphsmith]

We might be able beat them next year if we recruit more excellent kickers of the footy.

But this year, they are not our concern, and we are certainly not their concern.

Pressure them as much as we want, but when jason gram/jason blake/steven baker/sam gilbert/ etcetc cant execute a simple pass to a leading riewoldt or a dal santo on the wing just forget about challenging.

[Behind Play]

Swans where lucky, the filth should have won by at least 5 goals...poor kicking.
I cannot see anyone beating them, which is unfortunate.
We are along way off
I truley hope them or the cats don't win the flag.

[spert]

You beat a top team by playing as a top team. We will not beat teams above us when we are relying on a handful of players to try and do all the work. We will struggle for the rest of the season as our forward line has disintigrated. Lets look to next year.

[samoht]

Collingwood has improved since last year and going from strength to strength.

Cloke was injured in the GF's ,carrying some sort of groin problem as he wasn't moving around as freely as he is now - we need to think of promoting someone like Walsh to play on Cloke - as Dawson offers no resistance at all.

The back 6 are not Collingwood's weakness - they set up so many attacking moves..Shaw, Thomas and O'Brien - average around 80 possessions and plenty of run and carry.
Many have tried and failed .. but I agree more pressure needs to be put on them - you don't want to give these damaging players free run out of defence.

Good luck though --
RL identified Thomas as the best AFL player right now and then watched powerlessly, as Thomas proved him right when we last played them.

[Junction Oval]

We need to focus on how we can get back to where we were at the top.
Any strategies and tactics deveoped now, will be outdated by then.

All eyes on player recruitment and development at the moment, thank you.

[White Winmar]

It seems the general consensus on here is that we may as well turn out the lights, lock the doors and hand the cup to the filth. For all the pessimists on here, cast your minds back to 2008. Remember the invincible Geelong side that lost only one game up until the GF? Or more painfully, perhaps, 2009, when our boys looked unbeatable until round 20? We all know how those two scenarios played out. The point is, there is a long way to go until the decider. So much can, and will happen, between now and then.

I'm the first to admit the filth has looked the goods this year, but everyone seems to forget Geelong beat them. How? Well it was a good old defensive, low scoring scrap. The final margin flattered the filth as the cats would have buried them early, had they kicked accurately for goal.

The filth's defensive unit is its weakest link. I'm not saying they are all terrible players, but their back six is the least skillful and most vulnerable unit in their team. The reason they create run and opportunity from back their is they are ALLOWED to by the opposition. Look at the way the swans front half pressured them last night and look at the result. Five unanswered goals to the swans and repeated turnovers and butchering of the ball by the filth's defenders. Have another look at that part of the game on replay if you can. You'll see the panicked mistakes of Toovey, Reid, Maxwell and O'Brien and as for Heath Shaw, well you won't see him at all because the pressure was on. There was absolutely no rebound or attack created by the filth because the swans chopped off the supply at its usual source.

It seems as if the filth are considered by some to be invincible supermen. What they have is some very talented on-ballers and forwards complemented by a well-structured game plan. You don't bring down a strong opponent by targeting their strengths. You look for the weakest spot and apply pressure there. Once the integrity of the game plan is upset, the rest of the unit falls like dominoes. We saw this for a quarter and a bit last night. The challenge is to keep it up for the full game. They are beatable folks!

[makemytime]

When under pressure, any defensive unit could be made out to look powerless and forced into errors. That is not something we don't know already. Does anyone else wonder about what has happened to our tackles inside forward 50?
In 2009, Milne, Schneids and McQualter absolutely dominated in terms of the pressure they put on.

[jays]

move ball fast and take risks thats a start

[Saints43]

RL identified Thomas as the best AFL player right now and then watched powerlessly, as Thomas proved him right when we last played them.

Watched on powerlessly? Wasn't Jones smashing him until moved off him?

I suppose RL didn't want to be proved wrong...

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

Pressure them as much as we want, but when jason gram/jason blake/steven baker/sam gilbert/ etcetc cant execute a simple pass to a leading riewoldt or a dal santo on the wing just forget about challenging.

+1

This is the best post I've seen on this site. Seriously.

You can pressure teams all day, but you've got to be able to execute when you get the ball.

[plugger66]

Why are we worrying about round 21?
Lets face it that is the last time we play them this year.

[White Winmar]

Can't a man have a dream p66? I know it's awfully long odds at this stage. I was really referring to us and the rest of the competition. Agree with you QuestionofAccuracy. Pressure's no good if you're just going to cough it up on the rebound. That's another area where we have fallen off the pace this year. We seem to have a few "butchers" in the team, but kicking can be a confidence thing, which can return. As I've posted elsewhere in this forum, for the recruiters, kicking is the "new pace". If you're not an elite kick, I wouldn't get your hopes up of getting drafted.

[perfectionist]

...That's what i've been thinking all year. Even when Geelong thumped them...

By 3 points!

Geelong will win their first 21 games (at least). Collingwood will win their next 9 (their only hard game is against us). That means that in round 24, an unbeaten Geelong will face Collingwood with one loss (against Geelong by 3 points). There has never been a more uneven AFL/VFL season - two vs the rest.

The irony is, we were better than both in 2004 and 2009, but had no luck.

NB Geelong beat us in Round 1 by a point (their narrowest win) because of a foolish error in the last minute. Just part of the never ending what if, could-a-been , might-have-been, St Kilda drama. Oh, the pain!

[SaintPav]

Reality check. At this stage, we will not beat any of the top 6 teams. So, dumb thread. really dumb.

[White Winmar]

Get down to Centrebet SaintPav. Put everything you've got on that bet, seeing as you're so certain. What you're saying is Collingwood can't be beaten and the saints can't beat a top 6 side! Let's check again at the end of the year. Give Ross a call. I'm sure he'd be interested in your thoughts. Especially the, "giving up early" bit.

[gringo]

Cheerful lot aren't you. They should put the new Frangger centre up for sale and pack their bags for relocation now to avoid the inevitability that the next ten years are a write off. Collingwood and Geelong will share all the premierships left in the future before the whole comp folds after a betting/ umpire scandal.

[Cairnsman]

I think Collingwood are going to win 4 flags in a row. Our time will come but not in this decade.

[samoht]

I think Collingwood are going to win 4 flags in a row. Our time will come but not in this decade.

We talk about saints football and dynasties blah, blah, blah ..
..while they are just going to quietly make their dynasty happen.

Slogans do not a premiership make.

Good recruiting and behind the scene stuff is what pays off .., not who the coaches are or what their mantra is.

One good Recruiter is worth 10 good coaches.
Quiet Achieving is worth 10 Fanfares.

Empty drums and coaches make the most noise.

[Con Gorozidis]

The other area that rarely gets a mention is the filth's "bottom six". Our so called bottom six gets done to death in the media, but the filth's has never been mentioned. Let's see, Wood, McCarthy, Goldsack, Toovey, Blair and Reid. No champions in that lot. When isolated, their lack of skill only becomes more apparent.

Reid is a gun player. Wood is a fair back up ruckman and not in their best 22.

Swans are specialists at "fighting losses. I wouldnt read too much in to it.

Have you seen the Pies %? They are miles in front.

[St Nick]

I think Collingwood are going to win 4 flags in a row. Our time will come but not in this decade.

Big call. I think Collingwood could potentially play in 4 Grand Finals in a row. How many they win is really on the day. The scareiest thing is that they are still improving. Most of their players are still under 25.