Collingwood's Draw

[Johnny Member]

We all know it is unfair and it always will be. It would be even more unfair if sides couldnt win interstate but good sides do as proven by stats. People blame AD but before him the draw was unfair and after him it will still be unfair. The AFL have always stated it is to maximise the crowd and even though people disagree you must always have 2 derbys as well. Those things will never change.

What has AD done to fix this?

Nothing. Did you read what I said?

I did.


I took what you wrote to say 'yeah, you've all been right all along. It's a joke. But it's always been that way so what's the problem?'


I think it's a disgrace that AD can come into a role and not only ignore a glaring problem, probably 'the' glaring problem of the game but infact make it worse.


Demetriou, Anderson and the commission are so woeful it isn't funny.

[Dr Spaceman]

Geeze I would hate to be an interstate side that travels every second week.  :roll:

It's a fair point you make tash.

It's a hard gig for those sides, but somewhat compensated by the fact they have genuine home games every second week which are very difficult for the visitors to win.

Swings and roundabouts  8-)

Glen Jakovich reckons that travelling every second week cut his, and some of his teammate's careers short.

To the point that in his latter years as a player, he didn't travel at all. Alastair Lynch was the same.

For this to happen, there is no doubt that it takes a toll. 


What Jakovich also said, was that the more you travel, the better you get at it.
So in the end, the non-Melbourne clubs actually get an advantage. They are good travellers because they do it every second week, and when playing at home they actually play at their home ground in front of their home crowd (unlike Vic clubs who share grounds).
They also have the advantage of playing Vic clubs at home that aren't accustomed to travelling.


So basically, according to someone who'd know, travelling for the non-Melbourne clubs isn't an issue. Travelling for the Vic clubs is.
And travelling, over time, burns you out.

Unfortunately there's no way around it.

Unless someone can work out a way of, for example, West Coast playing St Kilda without either team having to travel.

[saint tash]

Are we also going to blame him for introducing new sides into the competition????

Thus making our chances of winning another flag that much slimmer???

Thoughts????

[plugger66]

We all know it is unfair and it always will be. It would be even more unfair if sides couldnt win interstate but good sides do as proven by stats. People blame AD but before him the draw was unfair and after him it will still be unfair. The AFL have always stated it is to maximise the crowd and even though people disagree you must always have 2 derbys as well. Those things will never change.

What has AD done to fix this?

Nothing. Did you read what I said?

I did.


I took what you wrote to say 'yeah, you've all been right all along. It's a joke. But it's always been that way so what's the problem?'


I think it's a disgrace that AD can come into a role and not only ignore a glaring problem, probably 'the' glaring problem of the game but infact make it worse.


Demetriou, Anderson and the commission are so woeful it isn't funny.

Just wait a few more years and you will be saying that someone else as people said it about the previous CEO. By the way I have no idea what you think you are right about because I certainly dont think you are right. I think you want a fair draw but it will never happen. I realised that 15 years ago. It certainly doesnt even slightly worry me now as the best side just about wins the flag every year no matter what the draw.

[Johnny Member]

Do people seriously think it makes any difference if Collingwood plays 4, instead of 5 or even 6 games interstate? Seriously?

The Pies will win anywhere, it really doesn't make a difference.

We need to stop worrying about opposition sides, and just worry about ourselves.

As I said in an earlier post, we drew a Grand Final with them.

The scores were level after 100 minutes of football, afte 22 rounds of football.


Do you not think that had we not gone interstate 6 times last year, but instead played 900 games in a row at home that we may have been a better side by 1 point that day?
Do you not think that maybe, had we not travelled in R22 whilst Collingwood enjoyed their 8th game in a row at the MCG we may have been a 1 point better side that day?
Do you not think that maybe, just maybe we may have been a 1 point better side had we had the 7 day break rather than a 6 day break leading into the Grand Final?



We'll never know. But f***, I'd bet Ross Lyon would have been much happier with Collingwood's 'draw'.

[Johnny Member]

Are we also going to blame him for introducing new sides into the competition????

Thus making our chances of winning another flag that much slimmer???

Thoughts????

Don't get me started on that.


Another blunder.

[Tess]

Let me try and put a Collingwood view forward for what the effort is worth.

Here is a ruff rundown our "regular" Melbourne based away games.

Geelong, requests to play us at the MCG and not at Kardinia Park because they make much more playing us at the G.

Essendon and Carlton, both Etihad tenants but we have not played either anywhere but the MCG for many years. These "Blockbuster" games are also part of the deal the AFL made so the MCG could be rebuilt into what it is today.

Melbourne have their only real Blockbuster on Queens Birthday when every year it is a HOME game for the Dee's.

Hawthorn don't want to play us in Tassie, they prefer to play us at the MCG again like Geelong because of the money.

Footscray, Richmond and North, all wanna play us as the Home team all for the Money.

You guys .... this year we have to play twice .... you know why even if ya wanna forget!

So that is 9 Clubs in Victoria who want to play us as the Home team.

Who misses out?

Personally I would love to see us play all 8 non Melbourne Clubs in WA, SA, QLD and NSW and then maybe even Hawthorn in Tassie and Geelong in Geelong. Then we have the regular Blockbusters were because of the size of the crowds the Equalisation fund gets a huge cash injection from as well as the MCC agreement.
That is 12 games ....
but we only have 11 away games next year ....
so again I ask,
who misses out?

[plugger66]

Are we also going to blame him for introducing new sides into the competition????

Thus making our chances of winning another flag that much slimmer???

Thoughts????

Don't get me started on that.


Another blunder.

Why do you even watch the game. I love the saints but if I felt like you I would never watch a game of footy unless I was into bondage.

[saint tash]

Are we also going to blame him for introducing new sides into the competition????

Thus making our chances of winning another flag that much slimmer???

Thoughts????

Don't get me started on that.


Another blunder.

Why do you even watch the game. I love the saints but if I felt like you I would never watch a game of footy unless I was into bondage.

Don't get me started on that (bondage).....

[SainterSoul]

Oh come on, what a cop out. What an absolute hypothetical. Did we play any interstate games in the finals? I hate the "what ifs", it feels like loser mentality to me.

[Leo.J]

Are we also going to blame him for introducing new sides into the competition????

Thus making our chances of winning another flag that much slimmer???

Thoughts????

Don't get me started on that.


Another blunder.

Why do you even watch the game. I love the saints but if I felt like you I would never watch a game of footy unless I was into bondage.

I'm not far of it myself.

[plugger66]

Are we also going to blame him for introducing new sides into the competition????

Thus making our chances of winning another flag that much slimmer???

Thoughts????

Don't get me started on that.


Another blunder.

Why do you even watch the game. I love the saints but if I felt like you I would never watch a game of footy unless I was into bondage.

I'm not far of it myself.

Bondage?

[Leo.J]

I'm not talking about bondage either.

[Leo.J]

Are we also going to blame him for introducing new sides into the competition????

Thus making our chances of winning another flag that much slimmer???

Thoughts????

Don't get me started on that.


Another blunder.

Why do you even watch the game. I love the saints but if I felt like you I would never watch a game of footy unless I was into bondage.

I'm not far of it myself.

Bondage?

You're too quick...

Cut it out you'll get Tess tickle excited.

[bigcarl]

Let me try and put a Collingwood view forward for what the effort is worth.

Here is a ruff rundown our "regular" Melbourne based away games.

Geelong, requests to play us at the MCG and not at Kardinia Park because they make much more playing us at the G.

Essendon and Carlton, both Etihad tenants but we have not played either anywhere but the MCG for many years. These "Blockbuster" games are also part of the deal the AFL made so the MCG could be rebuilt into what it is today.

Melbourne have their only real Blockbuster on Queens Birthday when every year it is a HOME game for the Dee's.

Hawthorn don't want to play us in Tassie, they prefer to play us at the MCG again like Geelong because of the money.

Footscray, Richmond and North, all wanna play us as the Home team all for the Money.

You guys .... this year we have to play twice .... you know why even if ya wanna forget!

So that is 9 Clubs in Victoria who want to play us as the Home team.

Realise all that and the economic rationale behind it. Doesn't make it a fair and level playing field though. Far from it.

It's a sport, FFS, that people take seriously. Not World Championship Wrestling.

Dimwit needs to fix it to be viewed as someone of integrity rather than a fat, greedy businessman.

[SainterSoul]

In reality, clubs should stop getting into so much debt and having to rely on Collingwood games for their financial windfall. Clubs can't ask for one thing on one hand, but then complain about it on the other.

While it may not seem fair, unfortunately it's the economic reality of this competition. But, even with advantages, it still took the Pies 20 years to win another flag.

[Enrico_Misso]

The fact is the draw IS totally UNFAIR - Collingwood's 22 straight games here are a testament to that.

One can debate to what extent this perversion is caused by
- Dimwit and Anderscum simply trying to maximise revenue which fortuitously has allowed Dimwit to quadruple his salary!
Wonder if there is a link there?
Hence the cosy little arrangements whereby certain sides always play twice, and at prime times.
- or the Collingwood influence "Everybody wants to play Collingwood because they want the crowds to line their profits." - How was that for a copy-paste from the Eddie mantra?

Either way - both motives are wrong, corrupt and a total indictment on the integrity of the game and it's administrators.

To have integrity the draw needs to be about fairness NOT repeat NOT revenue.

So the Draw needs to be either
- totally random (random=fair in the sense that it is not stacked in favour or against certain clubs)
- or totally systematic, so over 3 years (66 games) each team plays each other 4 times (4x16=64 or now 4x17=68) with the 2 missing games (66-64=2 or 68-66=2) being chosen at random.

If Dimwit/Anderscum were running the EPL, ManU would play Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea every 3 weeks at Wembley, and their salaries would be over $10m.

[Enrico_Misso]

The fact is the draw IS totally UNFAIR - Collingwood's 22 straight games here are a testament to that.

One can debate to what extent this perversion is caused by
- Dimwit and Anderscum simply trying to maximise revenue which fortuitously has allowed Dimwit to quadruple his salary!
Wonder if there is a link there?
Hence the cosy little arrangements whereby certain sides always play twice, and at prime times.
- or the Collingwood influence "Everybody wants to play Collingwood because they want the crowds to line their profits." - How was that for a copy-paste from the Eddie mantra?

Either way - both motives are wrong, corrupt and a total indictment on the integrity of the game and it's administrators.

To have integrity the draw needs to be about fairness NOT repeat NOT revenue.

So the Draw needs to be either
- totally random (random=fair in the sense that it is not stacked in favour or against certain clubs)
- or totally systematic, so over 3 years (66 games) each team plays each other 4 times (4x16=64 or now 4x17=68) with the 2 missing games (66-64=2 or 68-66=2) being chosen at random.

If Dimwit/Anderscum were running the EPL, ManU would play Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea every 3 weeks at Wembley, and their salaries would be over $10m.

[saint tash]

In reality, clubs should stop getting into so much debt and having to rely on Collingwood games for their financial windfall. Clubs can't ask for one thing on one hand, but then complain about it on the other.

While it may not seem fair, unfortunately it's the economic reality of this competition. But, even with advantages, it still took the Pies 20 years to win another flag.

And probably another 20 years to win another one.

Actually it's all Eddiewood's fault.

[Mr Magic]

Let me try and put a Collingwood view forward for what the effort is worth.

Here is a ruff rundown our "regular" Melbourne based away games.

Geelong, requests to play us at the MCG and not at Kardinia Park because they make much more playing us at the G.

Essendon and Carlton, both Etihad tenants but we have not played either anywhere but the MCG for many years. These "Blockbuster" games are also part of the deal the AFL made so the MCG could be rebuilt into what it is today.

Melbourne have their only real Blockbuster on Queens Birthday when every year it is a HOME game for the Dee's.

Hawthorn don't want to play us in Tassie, they prefer to play us at the MCG again like Geelong because of the money.

Footscray, Richmond and North, all wanna play us as the Home team all for the Money.

You guys .... this year we have to play twice .... you know why even if ya wanna forget!

So that is 9 Clubs in Victoria who want to play us as the Home team.

Realise all that and the economic rationale behind it. Doesn't make it a fair and level playing field though. Far from it.

It's a sport, FFS, that people take seriously. Not World Championship Wrestling.

Dimwit needs to fix it to be viewed as someone of integrity rather than a fat, greedy businessman.

What a load of crap the 'everyone wants to play Collingwood at home' line is.
If it was really truly their motivating force behind the FIXture than why are the interstate Clubs missing out on having home games against them?

They don't want full stadiums?
They're not entitled to reap the financial benefits of hosting the feral filth?

It is, IMO, an absolute furphy trotted out to try and rationalize why the FIXture is as biased as it is.

The truth is probably simply that they want Collingwood playing at the biggest capacity ground so that they can attract the biggest attendance.

What do the 'home teams' actually get from a Collingwood game?
Most of those feral filth have memberships which get them into the ground for nothing.
And the truth is that the AFL have an 'equalization fund' which 'spreads the attendance money' around all Clubs to compensate them for not having 'blockbuster' games etc.

The Clubs with the most money are getting it from their memberships, not from the gate-takings. (other than the finals series)

Nothing shytes me more than officials treating us all like mushrooms and leaving us in the dark covered in crap.

Maybe they could just tell the truth for once, or are they too scared to do so in case the rest of the football world finally understands the 'joke' of a FIXture the AFL has inflicted on most clubs?

Like so many other things about AFL football these days, I would be far more accepting of the BS decisoins if they actually told us the truth about why things occur, rather than 'spinning' and 'covering up' the real reasons why things are done.

Maybe they could start by actually admitting what is the primary concern when they sit down to make the next FIXture?

Fairness or maximizing attendances?

[tweedaletomanning]

Let me try and put a Collingwood view forward for what the effort is worth.

Here is a ruff rundown our "regular" Melbourne based away games.

Geelong, requests to play us at the MCG and not at Kardinia Park because they make much more playing us at the G.

Essendon and Carlton, both Etihad tenants but we have not played either anywhere but the MCG for many years. These "Blockbuster" games are also part of the deal the AFL made so the MCG could be rebuilt into what it is today.

Melbourne have their only real Blockbuster on Queens Birthday when every year it is a HOME game for the Dee's.

Hawthorn don't want to play us in Tassie, they prefer to play us at the MCG again like Geelong because of the money.

Footscray, Richmond and North, all wanna play us as the Home team all for the Money.

You guys .... this year we have to play twice .... you know why even if ya wanna forget!

So that is 9 Clubs in Victoria who want to play us as the Home team.

Realise all that and the economic rationale behind it. Doesn't make it a fair and level playing field though. Far from it.

It's a sport, FFS, that people take seriously. Not World Championship Wrestling.

Dimwit needs to fix it to be viewed as someone of integrity rather than a fat, greedy businessman.

What a load of crap the 'everyone wants to play Collingwood at home' line is.
If it was really truly their motivating force behind the FIXture than why are the interstate Clubs missing out on having home games against them?

They don't want full stadiums?
They're not entitled to reap the financial benefits of hosting the feral filth?

It is, IMO, an absolute furphy trotted out to try and rationalize why the FIXture is as biased as it is.

The truth is probably simply that they want Collingwood playing at the biggest capacity ground so that they can attract the biggest attendance.

What do the 'home teams' actually get from a Collingwood game?
Most of those feral filth have memberships which get them into the ground for nothing.
And the truth is that the AFL have an 'equalization fund' which 'spreads the attendance money' around all Clubs to compensate them for not having 'blockbuster' games etc.

The Clubs with the most money are getting it from their memberships, not from the gate-takings. (other than the finals series)

Nothing shytes me more than officials treating us all like mushrooms and leaving us in the dark covered in crap.

Maybe they could just tell the truth for once, or are they too scared to do so in case the rest of the football world finally understands the 'joke' of a FIXture the AFL has inflicted on most clubs?

Like so many other things about AFL football these days, I would be far more accepting of the BS decisoins if they actually told us the truth about why things occur, rather than 'spinning' and 'covering up' the real reasons why things are done.

Maybe they could start by actually admitting what is the primary concern when they sit down to make the next FIXture?

Fairness or maximizing attendances?

As usual MM, you are 100% correct.

Along with johnny Leo, Enrico and Carl, you are all spot on.

Can't beleive posters on here arguing that a fair Draw would make no difference.

Seriously, those who think the draw is fair, should really get a job with one of the tobacco companies, cos they could also be easily convinced that smoking is good for you

Playing 18 games at the MCG as against 3 for the year. WOULD HAVE DEFINATELY made a ONE POINT DIFFERENCE Last Year.

There needs to be an asterix after The filths Flag win Last year, so future generations know...

***Won Grand Final ON THEIR HOME GROUND, After DRAWING 1st Grand Final ON THEIR HOME GROUND.

[matrix]

names in a hat of all teams
draw team
draw ground

get two chicks in body paint to draw the tickets

solved

[Tess]

What a load of crap the 'everyone wants to play Collingwood at home' line is.
If it was really truly their motivating force behind the FIXture than why are the interstate Clubs missing out on having home games against them?
They don't want full stadiums?
They're not entitled to reap the financial benefits of hosting the feral filth?

It is, IMO, an absolute furphy trotted out to try and rationalize why the FIXture is as biased as it is.

The truth is probably simply that they want Collingwood playing at the biggest capacity ground so that they can attract the biggest attendance.

We have a game Vs Sydney every year, NO MATTER where we or they are on the ladder! As for filling stadiums it's only Port that don't have 40,000 plus members to fill their own stadiums so your argument is flawed.

What do the 'home teams' actually get from a Collingwood game?
Most of those feral filth have memberships which get them into the ground for nothing.
And the truth is that the AFL have an 'equalization fund' which 'spreads the attendance money' around all Clubs to compensate them for not having 'blockbuster' games etc.

The Clubs with the most money are getting it from their memberships, not from the gate-takings. (other than the finals series)

Nothing shytes me more than officials treating us all like mushrooms and leaving us in the dark covered in crap.

A few years ago, it might have been post the 02/03 Vs Brisbane GF's we lost(our 25th and 26st loses btw) Collingwood started to plead with our supporters to sign up as members so we wouldn't put money into other Clubs coffers via the Equalization fund. Collingwood supporters voted with their wallets/purses this is why the Legends reserved seat for H&A games membership is sold out, also the fact they are guaranteed a GF ticket helped sell it out. So between our 22 game and 11 game reserved seat memberships we could pack out Etihad with just the people with these memberships .... then we have all the "other" memberships. I'm sure our 3 game memberships would rise if we started playing twice in SA, WA, NSW and QLD as our interstate supporters would buy in.

So what Collingwood has done is remove the AFL's hand from our pockets by buying Club memberships.

Maybe they could just tell the truth for once, or are they too scared to do so in case the rest of the football world finally understands the 'joke' of a FIXture the AFL has inflicted on most clubs?

Like so many other things about AFL football these days, I would be far more accepting of the BS decisoins if they actually told us the truth about why things occur, rather than 'spinning' and 'covering up' the real reasons why things are done.

Maybe they could start by actually admitting what is the primary concern when they sit down to make the next FIXture?

Fairness or maximizing attendances?

The truth is our Clubs future is in our own supporters hands, blaming the AFL for this or that is just looking for an excuse for failure. We have to work with what the AFL hand us in fixturing, the Clubs can sook about things all they want but will sooking change anything? didn't help us in 02/03 so we went about getting too where we are now on our own but as a partner with the AFL.

My Clubs culture towards the VFA/VFL/AFL whenever we got screwed was always a two finger salute .... and a determination to do it our way on our own! Look at our history to see where that has got us over the years.

[Grantaire]

In reality, clubs should stop getting into so much debt and having to rely on Collingwood games for their financial windfall. Clubs can't ask for one thing on one hand, but then complain about it on the other.

While it may not seem fair, unfortunately it's the economic reality of this competition. But, even with advantages, it still took the Pies 20 years to win another flag.

And probably another 20 years to win another one.

Actually it's all Eddiewood's fault.

I laughed.

[Mr Magic]

So why is it so hard to actually tell the truth.
Instead of the errant nonsense Eddie Everywhere 'trots out' about Collingwood being the 'magnanamous benefactor' t all the 'poor Melbourne Clubs'.

It is sheer arrogance, nothing more.
And this arrogance is one of the main reasons your Club is despised by anybody who has a modicum of personal hygiene and/or intelligence.

To see the hordes of lowlife ferals 'lap up' the crap as soon it erupts from the Filth orifice is astonishning.
To the see them then parrot the nonsense as if it were 'the gospel' is downright sickening.