Milney and Schnadzo seem to be escaping criticism.....

[saint tash]

Whilst it's ok to shoot down the regular offenders I thought these guys last night let us down terribly. Probably lucky that Armo and Peake kicked a few between them.

These guys seem to be failing in the big games whereas solid, consistent performances in these matches might see them recognised as elite players but until this happens that void will and should remain.

Hope they can turn around these big game let downs sooner rather then later because we need them now.

Thoughts???

[SaintPav]

Whilst it's ok to shoot down the regular offenders I thought these guys last night let us down terribly. Probably lucky that Armo and Peake kicked a few between them.

These guys seem to be failing in the big games whereas solid, consistent performances in these matches might see them recognised as elite players but until this happens that void will and should remain.

Hope they can turn around these big game let downs sooner rather then later because we need them now.

Thoughts???

Schneider has been quiet for a while now.

[saintspremiers]

Milne was rubbish.

Typical big game failure from him this season.

His miss from 10 meters out was a joke.

The little prick and Schneider cost us two goals and a premiership in 2009.

Piss poor Milney, and Schneider was Shyte also.

[plugger66]

Milne was rubbish.

Typical big game failure from him this season.

His miss from 10 meters out was a joke.

The little prick and Schneider cost us two goals and a premiership in 2009.

Piss poor Milney, and Schneider was Shyte also.

Id drop both of them.

[perfectionist]

"Milney and Schnadzo seem to be escaping criticism....."

Apparently not.

I dare say that, with a little effort, we can have a negative post on every player, coach, official and supporter by day's end.

Some people seem to have the memory of an ant. All that needed to be said about the team's prospects for 2011 was said after round 3. We should now be playing the young players who we think have ability, regardless. Specifically, Arryn Siposs and Tom Ledger.

[saint tash]

I'm not one to be negative, but merely trying to use constructive criticism towards two of our most senior and important players who have let us down on the big stage.

Not for the first time either.

To me it doesn't send a good image to the younger guys who look up to the elder statesmen for guidance and to fly the flag.

Roo doesn't escape this either but having read some threads I really need not comment.

[Junction Oval]

Yes, very disappointing about Milney. I keep asking myself why in the big games.

Is it that he doesn't have enough skill against the better sides, although you don't get to 200 games without being ok.

Is it the increased pressure put on players in big games - not much room to move?

[ando051]

Milnie had another poor game, but he has played some ok games this year so his form is not all bad.

Schneider's form had been very poor this season he does not chase as much, he is always trying to do the fancy stuff and stuffing it up. i would be giving him a run at Sandy after the bye.

[Trixilver]

Ridiculous. No more than a week ago he was praised more than anyone!

See: http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... hp?t=70144

And the 'does not perform in big games' theory I don't really buy into. Yes, the 09 GF he made some pretty big mistakes. But IIRC he kicked 4 goals between the 2 Grand Finals last year and kicked 3 against the cats in the QF in the space of about 5 minutes. I'd say all three were bigger games than the one last night but correct me if I'm wrong...

[saint tash]

Ridiculous. No more than a week ago he was praised more than anyone!

See: http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... hp?t=70144

And the 'does not perform in big games' theory I don't really buy into. Yes, the 09 GF he made some pretty big mistakes. But IIRC he kicked 4 goals between the 2 Grand Finals last year and kicked 3 against the cats in the QF in the space of about 5 minutes. I'd say all three were bigger games than the one last night but correct me if I'm wrong...

Yeahhh ok. Those two goals he kicked in GF2 last year were in junk time. They r called the who cares goals.

[To the top]

Did not attend last night - and know nothing of the game except for reading the subject matter of posts here over the last couple of minutes.

I was in a position to review history, congratulate on the current and look to the future last night back where it all began.

So that is the boring bit!

The reason I jump on this thread will be known to most.

In reviewing the recent history, analysing the current and planning for the future it is time for St Kilda (a club I have adopted to follow since residing in Melbourne and for some very particular reasons being people known to me) to make the hard decisions.

I admitted last night that I always had my "favourite" team in the lead in to any season - and that it was difficult on those who did not have the "favourite" tag to push into the team - it took consistent performance at the club including in matches to progress.

And it needed someone to make way - someone who was not consistently delivering to expectation and no matter their reputation.

So some hard and sad calls were made.

It is time for the hard call on Milne.

I repeat that he is a senior player at St Kilda with over 200 games and is over 30 years of age.

He should be a leader, particularly in these times.

Not an opportunist forward pocket on the fringe - with variable performances usually excelling against weaker opposition but far too frequently missing against stronger opposition.

To transition to the future, which is ALWAYS the challenge, Milne's time is up and it is time that the likes of Ledger (and Cripps when fit) took Milne's place - because they are the future and they will impact more than Milne can or will.

Look at Cripps haring in off the square.

Time for this enthusiam and energy.

Schnieder is clever with his body in turning inside out, but from sitting near the inter-change bench, he is not and has not been fit.

He always looks totally spent when he comes off - and that on minimal contributions to the mid-field rotations.

With these young, quick mids, Schnieder is also on borrowed time.

We have progressed Steven and Armitage and they serve us better than Milne or Schnieder.

[matrix]

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/play ... Milne.html

terrible
the blokes done
:sarcasm:

[mad saint guy]

A small forward is going to struggle when on the rare occasion that the ball goes inside 50 it is after 3 minutes of kicking around the wing before bombing to a pack of 8 Geelong defenders and Roo.

Milney was closely checked and did his best to create something through the midfield. His shot at goal was disappointing and a rare miss. He's still one of the best in the business and the only viable small forward option we have.

Schneider on the other hand had an absolute stinker and didn't seem too fussed about it. Needs to get into gear or he could be spending a week with Sandy soon.

[Junction Oval]

What a great Stats site Matrix.

Stats over time show that he has done ok against Geelong when compared to his efforts against other teams. Because Geelong have been strong for a long time now, that's not a bad effort over time.

[matrix]

sainterK had the best one
http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/team_home?tid=113

[noreason41]

Lets drop our leading goalkicker

[mcadam05]

Whilst it's ok to shoot down the regular offenders I thought these guys last night let us down terribly. Probably lucky that Armo and Peake kicked a few between them.

These guys seem to be failing in the big games whereas solid, consistent performances in these matches might see them recognised as elite players but until this happens that void will and should remain.

Hope they can turn around these big game let downs sooner rather then later because we need them now.

Thoughts???

Could someone tell me please what classifieds as a big game? how was last night any bigger game then last week or 4 weeks ago in perth

as losing last night had nothing too do with Stephen Milne

[clisaint]

Whilst it's ok to shoot down the regular offenders I thought these guys last night let us down terribly. Probably lucky that Armo and Peake kicked a few between them.

These guys seem to be failing in the big games whereas solid, consistent performances in these matches might see them recognised as elite players but until this happens that void will and should remain.

Hope they can turn around these big game let downs sooner rather then later because we need them now.

Thoughts???

Could someone tell me please what classifieds as a big game? how was last night any bigger game then last week or 4 weeks ago in perth

as losing last night had nothing too do with Stephen Milne

OP has a point. Last night was a chance to make a real statement- all the talk had been how we've turned things around over the last month (despite the drubbing by the team that shall not be named). What happens? Same s*** as always from the usual suspects- a series of unforced errors costing us on the scoreboard.

In ref to Milne and Schneids, if last night wasn't a big game then what was? And if you want other big games, well how about the GF x2 last year, and the GF 2009? Don't get much bigger than that. The sight of Milney not going hard enough for the ball will live with me for the rest of my life. Forget bad bounces, that was his for the taking.

[To the top]

I will re-define "big games" for you.

These are the games in which the likes of Milne and Schnieder find themselves matched up by bigger bodied opponents - because the teams able to deploy bigger bodied opponents have more depth on their list and are generally therefore at the top end of the ladder.

These are the opponents that Milne and Schnieder have problems with because they can generally negate their party skills of making body contact to allow the ball into space creating opportunity or marking and being able to play on.

Both Milne and Schnieder rely on out-positioning their opponents in the contest then turning onto the opportunity created.

This is why neither of them is productive in the mid-field and can not be rotated thru that vital area.

The problem with our attack is that we seem to think that we must pick Milne and Schnieder - and McQualter - plus we have Armitage, Steven, Cripps, Ledger and Gamble (at 184cm and with no great pace he rivals this grouping for a position) and then rely on Riewoldt and Koschitzke (when fit and available this season to date) because they are the only 1 or 2 players over 184cm we have room for.

Simply, for team structure, we can not have all of Armitage, Steven, Milne, Schnieder, Gamble and then look to Ledger and Cripps in the one team.

Then there is Sippos. At 189cm he will hopefully consolidate as a dangerous multi-talented option in attack.

Then we have our mids - and their rotation thru the forward line as and when - and where Ray impresses me because of his ability to take a grab against like sized players.

We only need 2 "buzzers" around the forward line - any more and we are unbalanced which we have been this season - and for the last couple of seasons.

And if those forward line "buzzers" can rotate thru the mids then that is a requirement because of the importance of mid-field rotations and someone like Ray (or Montagna or Dal Santo or Goddard) drifting forward to create mis-matches.

It is not as if we can decide that Milne or Schnieder are being checked out therefore they are released to the mid-field, or put in a run with role to negate someone else.

Those options just do not exist because they are what they are - and you can no longer afford them such has been the transition of the game.

[mcadam05]

Whilst it's ok to shoot down the regular offenders I thought these guys last night let us down terribly. Probably lucky that Armo and Peake kicked a few between them.

These guys seem to be failing in the big games whereas solid, consistent performances in these matches might see them recognised as elite players but until this happens that void will and should remain.

Hope they can turn around these big game let downs sooner rather then later because we need them now.

Thoughts???

Could someone tell me please what classifieds as a big game? how was last night any bigger game then last week or 4 weeks ago in perth

as losing last night had nothing too do with Stephen Milne

OP has a point. Last night was a chance to make a real statement- all the talk had been how we've turned things around over the last month (despite the drubbing by the team that shall not be named). What happens? Same s*** as always from the usual suspects- a series of unforced errors costing us on the scoreboard.

In ref to Milne and Schneids, if last night wasn't a big game then what was? And if you want other big games, well how about the GF x2 last year, and the GF 2009? Don't get much bigger than that. The sight of Milney not going hard enough for the ball will live with me for the rest of my life. Forget bad bounces, that was his for the taking.

so you compare a game in rd 13 with 2 Grand Finals lol thats insane ! so was the Rd 10 game in perth a big game ? i guess it wasnt because both Milne and Schneider played pretty well

As I said before Milne wasnt the reason we lost last night

im still waiting for someone too tell me what a "big game " is

[clisaint]

I just gave you an example of 'big games'- the last three grand finals. They're both serial offenders when it comes to choking in big games.

And if you didn't see last night as a big game- a game against a top of the ladder side which we go into with at least some chance of an upset- well, if that isn't I don't know what is. Geelong's most important player was out, they lost another key player early. Milne and Schneids failed yet again.

[mcadam05]

A 'big game' is a game against a top of the ladder side which we go into with at least some chance of an upset. Geelong's most important player was out, they lost another key player early. Milne and Schneids failed yet again.

Another big game- the last three grand finals. They're both serial offenders when it comes to choking in big games.

how many small fwds have had great grand finals??

[clisaint]

A 'big game' is a game against a top of the ladder side which we go into with at least some chance of an upset. Geelong's most important player was out, they lost another key player early. Milne and Schneids failed yet again.

Another big game- the last three grand finals. They're both serial offenders when it comes to choking in big games.

how many small fwds have had great grand finals??

How many small forwards have fluffed as many 'gettable' shots at goal at crucial moments in multiple grand finals / not gone when they should to kick the match winning goal?

It's not about dominating the match, it's about making the most of your opportunities- which the subjects have both failed to do.

[plugger66]

A 'big game' is a game against a top of the ladder side which we go into with at least some chance of an upset. Geelong's most important player was out, they lost another key player early. Milne and Schneids failed yet again.

Another big game- the last three grand finals. They're both serial offenders when it comes to choking in big games.

how many small fwds have had great grand finals??

How many small forwards have fluffed as many 'gettable' shots at goal at crucial moments in multiple grand finals / not gone when they should to kick the match winning goal?

It's not about dominating the match, it's about making the most of your opportunities- which the subjects have both failed to do.

So what would you do with Milne?

[mcadam05]

A 'big game' is a game against a top of the ladder side which we go into with at least some chance of an upset. Geelong's most important player was out, they lost another key player early. Milne and Schneids failed yet again.

Another big game- the last three grand finals. They're both serial offenders when it comes to choking in big games.

how many small fwds have had great grand finals??

How many small forwards have fluffed as many 'gettable' shots at goal at crucial moments in multiple grand finals / not gone when they should to kick the match winning goal?

It's not about dominating the match, it's about making the most of your opportunities- which the subjects have both failed to do.

ahhhhhhhhhhh thats it so how many "opportunities" did our fwds get last night ?