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borderbarry wrote:Walsh has been among the best each week recently. I dont know what more he has to do. I hope that when they do bring him in they leave him in for a fair while and let him learn the game at AFL level. I notice other Irishmen recruited after Tom have been playing and playing well. Our selectors need the courage to give him a go.
He will get a go BB.
Maybe the selectors feel it would be best to blood him in, say, the North clash after the bye rather than ask the guy, who has only been playing for 18 months, to play first up against the ladder leaders?
I would just say that Johnson should be played forward and may be able to be a big gorilla forward (like Dawes, Cloke, etc). It would also be good to see him as the actual full forward for at least a few minutes a quarter.
poor Raph can't catch a break - we wouldn't expect Lenny to come back after 5 weeks out and star, yet when Raph plays what i think was a passable game, some jump all over him - give him a break
as far as im concerned, rebuilding or not, the younger players need to get into the team like every other player - consistently tear it up in the seconds. Siposs deserved to be dropped after some sub-10 possession games, and in the end, Ledger got 6 touches, Simpkin got 7 - i can assure that we will get much more output from Blake and Montagna. Will was unlucky to miss out, but if he plays at the calibre he did last week consistently, he'll get a game. Ditto with Walsh, Ledger, Simpkin and whoever else is capable of stepping up
I love the way Johnson plays but he isn't going to be Dawes and Brown. He is more of a fast ground level tall. I can't see him doing the pack marks yet. I see him more as fast leading to space or gathering the loose ball for a goal.
gringo wrote:I love the way Johnson plays but he isn't going to be Dawes and Brown. He is more of a fast ground level tall. I can't see him doing the pack marks yet. I see him more as fast leading to space or gathering the loose ball for a goal.
like a g-train? i read on the zebras thread where he took a couple of strong contested grabs on the weekend. must admit i haven't seen enough of him to be able to draw my own conclusions yet. five goals sounded all right though.
here's a couple of interesting looks at the sides.
Changes Since Round 1:
IN: Schneider, Steven
OUT: Hayes, McQualter
pretty much the same side, then, which is surprising given that we've been going poorly and playing the kids. obviously one of the outs is more important than the other three players put together.
and there's six changes to the cats. a couple of important outs in ablett and selwood, and four of the ins are 20 or younger. it hardly needs to be said that they're managing generational change better than us.
The catalyst for my comments on Johnson is that Dawson is vairable at full back and I stuggle to have confidence in him - despite his height and weight being around the mark to hold down such a position.
I just have a view that full backs are born - they are a breed apart who must endure rarely being recognised in the media, sacrifice their own abilities to close down, spoil and negate and to hold the defensive structure.
They are selfless footballers born to that role.
Look at Hudgdon - except when he came up against Nietz who had his call because of his physicallity.
Dawson to me does not fit the bill - he is there because he has the physical attributes and is not of a calibre to play in any other position.
So he is a default full back, capable of some satisfactory performances in that position depending on the opponent and the support of his remainder defenders.
Simpkin is not a full back. He is an outer defender. As is Fisher.
Gwilt is 188cm.
Walsh, for all his education, is untried. And given my view that full backs are born, I have doubts about Walsh in that particular position.
The player on our list who does show the attributes, and has the history, is Johnson.
Who are the other options to Dawson?
In regards Clarke, off a limited pre-season following a season ending injury in mid 2010 when playing fine football, I do not know what all the fuss is about or where the descriptions come from.
To me, he is easliy in our best 22.
As is Koschitzke, off no pre-season following post season surgery.
And as is Gram for what he brings to the team - also off a limited pre-season due to surgery.
Hayes will take time to re-establish to his best in 2012 - as he did after previous surgery.
As will Gardiner when he resumes in a couple of weeks.
gringo wrote:I love the way Johnson plays but he isn't going to be Dawes and Brown. He is more of a fast ground level tall. I can't see him doing the pack marks yet. I see him more as fast leading to space or gathering the loose ball for a goal.
like a g-train? i read on the zebras thread where he took a couple of strong contested grabs on the weekend. must admit i haven't seen enough of him to be able to draw my own conclusions yet. five goals sounded all right though.
Yep but 4 were when the game was over. Only one when it was up for grabs.
gringo wrote:I love the way Johnson plays but he isn't going to be Dawes and Brown. He is more of a fast ground level tall. I can't see him doing the pack marks yet. I see him more as fast leading to space or gathering the loose ball for a goal.
like a g-train? i read on the zebras thread where he took a couple of strong contested grabs on the weekend. must admit i haven't seen enough of him to be able to draw my own conclusions yet. five goals sounded all right though.
Yep but 4 were when the game was over. Only one when it was up for grabs.
yeah, you already said that. they are still goals at a club that struggles to kick them.
gringo wrote:I love the way Johnson plays but he isn't going to be Dawes and Brown. He is more of a fast ground level tall. I can't see him doing the pack marks yet. I see him more as fast leading to space or gathering the loose ball for a goal.
like a g-train? i read on the zebras thread where he took a couple of strong contested grabs on the weekend. must admit i haven't seen enough of him to be able to draw my own conclusions yet. five goals sounded all right though.
Yep but 4 were when the game was over. Only one when it was up for grabs.
yeah, you already said that. they are still goals at a club that struggles to kick them.
do you think he's any good?
No I dont. Thought he was very good the year before we drafted him. He was very ordinary last year and has been better this year but I fail to see what he has to offer at AFL level as a forward.
To the top wrote:The catalyst for my comments on Johnson is that Dawson is vairable at full back and I stuggle to have confidence in him - despite his height and weight being around the mark to hold down such a position.
I just have a view that full backs are born - they are a breed apart who must endure rarely being recognised in the media, sacrifice their own abilities to close down, spoil and negate and to hold the defensive structure.
They are selfless footballers born to that role.
Look at Hudgdon - except when he came up against Nietz who had his call because of his physicallity.
Dawson to me does not fit the bill - he is there because he has the physical attributes and is not of a calibre to play in any other position.
So he is a default full back, capable of some satisfactory performances in that position depending on the opponent and the support of his remainder defenders.
Simpkin is not a full back. He is an outer defender. As is Fisher.
Gwilt is 188cm.
Walsh, for all his education, is untried. And given my view that full backs are born, I have doubts about Walsh in that particular position.
The player on our list who does show the attributes, and has the history, is Johnson.
Who are the other options to Dawson?
In regards Clarke, off a limited pre-season following a season ending injury in mid 2010 when playing fine football, I do not know what all the fuss is about or where the descriptions come from.
To me, he is easliy in our best 22.
As is Koschitzke, off no pre-season following post season surgery.
And as is Gram for what he brings to the team - also off a limited pre-season due to surgery.
Hayes will take time to re-establish to his best in 2012 - as he did after previous surgery.
As will Gardiner when he resumes in a couple of weeks.
My question to you is how do you know Johnson is a born defender?
I believe he played in Defense at Sandy the year we drafted him but what before that? I've read suggestions that when he played at Collegians he was amongst the goal scorers. Maybe he just found himself back one day and did okay (much like Dawson & Walsh and indeed Sam Fisher)
If you have information regarding his junior career I'd be glad to read all about it.
However, for a natural born defender Ross and Sandy seem very keen to play him near our scoring end
gringo wrote:I love the way Johnson plays but he isn't going to be Dawes and Brown. He is more of a fast ground level tall. I can't see him doing the pack marks yet. I see him more as fast leading to space or gathering the loose ball for a goal.
like a g-train? i read on the zebras thread where he took a couple of strong contested grabs on the weekend. must admit i haven't seen enough of him to be able to draw my own conclusions yet. five goals sounded all right though.
Yep but 4 were when the game was over. Only one when it was up for grabs.
yeah, you already said that. they are still goals at a club that struggles to kick them.
do you think he's any good?
No I dont. Thought he was very good the year before we drafted him. He was very ordinary last year and has been better this year but I fail to see what he has to offer at AFL level as a forward.
you are a good judge as a rule.
it will be interesting to see how this one turns out.
if he keeps kicking them for sandringham he'll be hard to keep out of the team ... regardless of your opinion.
millarsaint wrote:well we need someone to be kicking them for us this week
for all those posters who are so happy and smug with this team, tell me, are you happy with Gilbert playing forward?
and please don't tell me our dashing midfield will rack up the goals
prediction; Raph to set the world on fire tomorrow night on wing or forward
but I think I'm desparately clutching at straws
I said that last week to my mates before the game that Raph was going to have a blinder; which meant that he was going to have a good game off HB and not stuff up. They were laughing at me throughout the game.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
What are the chances of another low scoring encounter, like Round 1?
6.12 to 6.11.
I don't mind these "dour struggles", but it could be ugly footy, that needs strong minds as well as strong bodies to maintain the pressure.
Cats have ridden their luck and pulled wins out of their fundament this year, winning four games by a combined total of 11pts.
If we keep them to under ten goals, this time it might go our way,
as long as Blake doesn't have another brain-fade .
Johnson was drafted off the back of performances as a full back in the VFL.
Despite what was seen as a poor season in 2010 (why?), he has been retained and has made his AFL debut in 2011.
So someone must have been pleased with his 2010 form - and I have a view that being asked to play forward in 2011 is part of his education.
He is of the same size and weight as Simpkin and Fisher.
What Johnson has shown since being drafted is sufficient leg speed to sit on someone's tail and get the defensive fist in - neither Simpkin nor Fisher have that necessary leg speed to hold down full back.
Johnson is also aggressive which is a requirement when spoiling overhead and controlling the ball on the ground.
I note that 4 of his goals last week were in the last quarter when the game was all over bar the shouting - so there should be some tempering of enthusiasm.
The point I make is that Dawson can be too easily broken down - and always looks fragile to me, not something you want from your full back - so where are the options on our list?
Johnson to me seems the only one - because I dismiss Walsh (he neds to be introduced to AFL football in a less crucial position) and Gwilt, Simpkin and Fisher are outer defenders who rely on positioning.
The other point I would make is that you have to be really, really good to earn your stripes as a 191cm, 91kg key forward.
Just too small and therefore just too easily negated.
for all those posters who are so happy and smug with this team, tell me, are you happy with Gilbert playing forward?
This post I just don't get - smug, happy WTF. If you like the ins you like the ins - what's the problem with appreciating Montagna and Blake are back in?
& how do you know where Gilbert will play???
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.
To the top wrote:Johnson was drafted off the back of performances as a full back in the VFL.
Despite what was seen as a poor season in 2010 (why?), he has been retained and has made his AFL debut in 2011.
So someone must have been pleased with his 2010 form - and I have a view that being asked to play forward in 2011 is part of his education.
He is of the same size and weight as Simpkin and Fisher.
What Johnson has shown since being drafted is sufficient leg speed to sit on someone's tail and get the defensive fist in - neither Simpkin nor Fisher have that necessary leg speed to hold down full back.
Johnson is also aggressive which is a requirement when spoiling overhead and controlling the ball on the ground.
I note that 4 of his goals last week were in the last quarter when the game was all over bar the shouting - so there should be some tempering of enthusiasm.
The point I make is that Dawson can be too easily broken down - and always looks fragile to me, not something you want from your full back - so where are the options on our list?
Johnson to me seems the only one - because I dismiss Walsh (he neds to be introduced to AFL football in a less crucial position) and Gwilt, Simpkin and Fisher are outer defenders who rely on positioning.
The other point I would make is that you have to be really, really good to earn your stripes as a 191cm, 91kg key forward.
Just too small and therefore just too easily negated.
So a key AFL forward he is not.
But an option as a full back?
Maybe, including because we badly need one.
Hey, we've found someone who can kick goals. Let's make him a defender.
Btw, if he's too small to be a key forward (your words) wouldn't it follow that he's too small to be a key defender?
To the top wrote:Johnson was drafted off the back of performances as a full back in the VFL.
Despite what was seen as a poor season in 2010 (why?), he has been retained and has made his AFL debut in 2011.
So someone must have been pleased with his 2010 form - and I have a view that being asked to play forward in 2011 is part of his education.
He is of the same size and weight as Simpkin and Fisher.
What Johnson has shown since being drafted is sufficient leg speed to sit on someone's tail and get the defensive fist in - neither Simpkin nor Fisher have that necessary leg speed to hold down full back.
Johnson is also aggressive which is a requirement when spoiling overhead and controlling the ball on the ground.
I note that 4 of his goals last week were in the last quarter when the game was all over bar the shouting - so there should be some tempering of enthusiasm.
The point I make is that Dawson can be too easily broken down - and always looks fragile to me, not something you want from your full back - so where are the options on our list?
Johnson to me seems the only one - because I dismiss Walsh (he neds to be introduced to AFL football in a less crucial position) and Gwilt, Simpkin and Fisher are outer defenders who rely on positioning.
The other point I would make is that you have to be really, really good to earn your stripes as a 191cm, 91kg key forward.
Just too small and therefore just too easily negated.
So a key AFL forward he is not.
But an option as a full back?
Maybe, including because we badly need one.
Can I ask how many time you have seen Johnson play and how many times have you seen him play at FB?
for all those posters who are so happy and smug with this team, tell me, are you happy with Gilbert playing forward?
This post I just don't get - smug, happy WTF. If you like the ins you like the ins - what's the problem with appreciating Montagna and Blake are back in?
& how do you know where Gilbert will play???
If you are not smug and happy it doesn't apply to you so don't let it confuse you. If Gibert doesn't play forward I will eat my jocks. If he does however play down back and Blake plays forward, I will eat my jocks.
Either way, if you understand the point I am making, in all likeliness I will be eating my jocks shortly after 7pm tonight, and by no means is that a good thing (for me or the people around me).
To the top wrote:Johnson was drafted off the back of performances as a full back in the VFL.
Despite what was seen as a poor season in 2010 (why?), he has been retained and has made his AFL debut in 2011.
So someone must have been pleased with his 2010 form - and I have a view that being asked to play forward in 2011 is part of his education.
He is of the same size and weight as Simpkin and Fisher.
What Johnson has shown since being drafted is sufficient leg speed to sit on someone's tail and get the defensive fist in - neither Simpkin nor Fisher have that necessary leg speed to hold down full back.
Johnson is also aggressive which is a requirement when spoiling overhead and controlling the ball on the ground.
I note that 4 of his goals last week were in the last quarter when the game was all over bar the shouting - so there should be some tempering of enthusiasm.
The point I make is that Dawson can be too easily broken down - and always looks fragile to me, not something you want from your full back - so where are the options on our list?
Johnson to me seems the only one - because I dismiss Walsh (he neds to be introduced to AFL football in a less crucial position) and Gwilt, Simpkin and Fisher are outer defenders who rely on positioning.
The other point I would make is that you have to be really, really good to earn your stripes as a 191cm, 91kg key forward.
Just too small and therefore just too easily negated.
