The ladder

I Love Peter Kiel · Tue 14 Jun 2011 1:22am

OK has anyone ...er...mentioned that we are....er.... 9th on the ladder and knocking on the door of the 8???

We're still completely under the radar.

We have a much better draw in the second half of the season and would just about have to fall over to miss the 8.

I won't mention other sides but some that started in a blaze of glory, while we struggled and were written off, have now got plenty of problems with injuries, form etc.

I Love Peter Kiel · Tue 14 Jun 2011 1:25am

PS forgot to add link

http://www.afl.com.au/ladder/tabid/74/default.aspx

Enrico_Misso · Tue 14 Jun 2011 1:26am

We might lose to Geelong and then we have the Bye.
That would see us slip back a bit as several sides could leap-frog us.

But you are right.
Our 2nd half draw looks OK.
So we should reel them in.

saintbrat · Tue 14 Jun 2011 10:25am

several of the teams around us play each other so may jump a few points.

and not completely under the radar - players from other teams are certainly giving us credit. and commenators have us back in the 8

Cairnsman · Tue 14 Jun 2011 10:33am

We are making up the numbers.

The Pies have got one hand on the cup.

It hurts but it is reality...

Saint Bev · Tue 14 Jun 2011 10:38am

The best way to overcome that is to win this week. If we can play for 4 quarters, there is no reason why we can't win. Gardi coming back after the bye will be massive.

Waltzing St Kilda · Tue 14 Jun 2011 10:41am

Question is, do we want to sneak into the eight and just make up the numbers at finals time? Get bundled out in on or two weeks? Good for some momentary prestige, but in the long run ...

Or are we still a legitimate contender, assuming we get our act together?

To this end, I don't think media commentators have much to offer. It wasn't too long ago (post Rd 5, I think) that Matthew Lloyd surveyed our draw for the next seven weeks and declared we'd only win one of those matches. Well, we won three (and came close to knocking over the Blues). And we still might beat the Cats as well -- who knows?

Mind you, this was the same Matthew Lloyd who, after the NAB Cup Grand Final last year, declared that the Dogs were "phenomenally better" than the Saints and he couldn't see the Saints beating them in the regular season. Well, we've since beaten the Dogs three times.

There's something about the Saints -- lingering contempt, an unglamorous lower order, the scent of scandal? -- that makes footy commentators overly keen to dismiss us and/or put us back in our place.

spert · Post: # 1089898Post **spert** » Tue 14 Jun 2011 10:49am

If we are any hope of playing in finals, we must beat Geelong this week and then live in hope. I believe we can beat Geelong, who like us, dont kick big scores regularly. With Selwood out, we just need the midfield to step up for their best game of the season and keep Gilbert in the backline. I reckon Lonegran is a weak link in the Cat backline, so maybe take a punt with Tommy Walsh in forward line for some extra body strength?

Thinline · Post: # 1089899Post **Thinline** » Tue 14 Jun 2011 10:53am

Cairnsman wrote:We are making up the numbers.

The Pies have got one hand on the cup.

It hurts but it is reality...

So did we in 97. So did Geelong in 08. So did Essendon in 99. So did North Melbourne in 98 etc etc etc...

Form like Collingwood's is unsustainable.

History proves it.

They lose Thomas with a hammie, they lose Swan with a knee...Everyone has their turn...

Not signed and sealed yet.

Cairnsman · Tue 14 Jun 2011 12:02pm

Thinline wrote:
Cairnsman wrote:We are making up the numbers.

The Pies have got one hand on the cup.

It hurts but it is reality...
So did we in 97. So did Geelong in 08. So did Essendon in 99. So did North Melbourne in 98 etc etc etc...

Form like Collingwood's is unsustainable.

History proves it.

They lose Thomas with a hammie, they lose Swan with a knee...Everyone has their turn...

Not signed and sealed yet.

All good points howevever my point is that we are just making up the numbers this year unless we do a Steve Bradburry.

SaintPav · Post: # 1089920Post **SaintPav** » Tue 14 Jun 2011 12:18pm

Cairnsman wrote:
Thinline wrote:
Cairnsman wrote:We are making up the numbers.

The Pies have got one hand on the cup.

It hurts but it is reality...
So did we in 97. So did Geelong in 08. So did Essendon in 99. So did North Melbourne in 98 etc etc etc...

Form like Collingwood's is unsustainable.

History proves it.

They lose Thomas with a hammie, they lose Swan with a knee...Everyone has their turn...

Not signed and sealed yet.
All good points howevever my point is that we are just making up the numbers this year unless we do a Steve Bradburry.

Are you feeling ok Cairnsman? I knew you had a nice side.

saintspremiers · Tue 14 Jun 2011 12:19pm

Correct Cairnsman.

I'd be happy if we make the eight and play just one final from here.

The dreamers may dream of flags but if you miss out of top 4 it's over.

Nothing too bad about playing one or maybe two finals, at least we should be gone by end of week 2 and I can then go to the prelims and GF without the stress lol!

saintly · Post: # 1089932Post **saintly** » Tue 14 Jun 2011 12:30pm

Cairnsman wrote:We are making up the numbers.

The Pies have got one hand on the cup.

It hurts but it is reality...

agree, thats what it looks like.

what would you prefer, making up the numbers in the 8 or or getting a better draft pick ?

saint tash · Tue 14 Jun 2011 12:36pm

Saint Bev wrote:The best way to overcome that is to win this week. If we can play for 4 quarters, there is no reason why we can't win. Gardi coming back after the bye will be massive.

Lack of a quality, hardened pre-season will hurt Gardy. Will be a pinch hitter at best, however in saying that I stand corrected should he prove me wrong otherwise.

dragit · Post: # 1089950Post **dragit** » Tue 14 Jun 2011 1:26pm

I know each season is very different,
But just had a look at the ladder from round 12 2008â€¦

We were 10th St Kilda 12 5 0 7 95.06% 20

We have played one less match this year and are half a game behind, we all remember sneaking into the top 4 in 2008â€¦ A win this week would be very exciting

Wishful thinking, but nice to remember that anything can happen, I wasn't that interested in making up the numbers in the finals this year, but now I'm thinking it would be invaluable experience for our younger guys - 1 or 2 finals on the big stage for - Armo, Steven, Sippos, Lynch, Ledger (Walsh, Winmar, Johnson, Cripps), it would be awesome for their development.

SainterK · Post: # 1089983Post **SainterK** » Tue 14 Jun 2011 2:14pm

saint tash wrote:
Saint Bev wrote:The best way to overcome that is to win this week. If we can play for 4 quarters, there is no reason why we can't win. Gardi coming back after the bye will be massive.
Lack of a quality, hardened pre-season will hurt Gardy. Will be a pinch hitter at best, however in saying that I stand corrected should he prove me wrong otherwise.

Agree with Bev, someone who can give our mids first use of the ball would be a massive advantage for the run home.

No fluke that Armo finds himself in the forward line, Dal in the backline, and BJ usually anywhere else other than the centre bounce.

plugger66 · Post: # 1089988Post **plugger66** » Tue 14 Jun 2011 2:26pm

SainterK wrote:
saint tash wrote:
Saint Bev wrote:The best way to overcome that is to win this week. If we can play for 4 quarters, there is no reason why we can't win. Gardi coming back after the bye will be massive.
Lack of a quality, hardened pre-season will hurt Gardy. Will be a pinch hitter at best, however in saying that I stand corrected should he prove me wrong otherwise.
Agree with Bev, someone who can give our mids first use of the ball would be a massive advantage for the run home.

No fluke that Armo finds himself in the forward line, Dal in the backline, and BJ usually anywhere else other than the centre bounce.

I would think MG will hinder more than help the Saints this year. It seems Jack can get clearances. Surely those guys are good enough to rove to a losing ruckman. Maybe that is why they are out of the middle.

SainterK · Post: # 1089994Post **SainterK** » Tue 14 Jun 2011 2:30pm

I disagree.

I think they are out of the middle because they were setting up as instructed, and the ball was doing anything but.

You are right about Jack though, he can rove anything. That is why he is in there....

If MG does make it back, he has enough time to find his fitness, and a good tap ruckman is extremely valuable.

plugger66 · Post: # 1090002Post **plugger66** » Tue 14 Jun 2011 2:38pm

SainterK wrote:I disagree.

I think they are out of the middle because they were setting up as instructed, and the ball was doing anything but.

You are right about Jack though, he can rove anything. That is why he is in there....

If MG does make it back, he has enough time to find his fitness, and a good tap ruckman is extremely valuable.

But where else can he play? Ruckmen cant rest on the bench anymore or if they do it can only be for 5 minutes a quarter. And those other guys must be poor midfielders not being able to rove to any ruckman.

dragit · Post: # 1090004Post **dragit** » Tue 14 Jun 2011 2:40pm

plugger66 wrote:
SainterK wrote:I disagree.

I think they are out of the middle because they were setting up as instructed, and the ball was doing anything but.

You are right about Jack though, he can rove anything. That is why he is in there....

If MG does make it back, he has enough time to find his fitness, and a good tap ruckman is extremely valuable.
But where else can he play? Ruckmen cant rest on the bench anymore or if they do it can only be for 5 minutes a quarter. And those other guys must be poor midfielders not being able to rove to any ruckman.

Resting forward? creating an actual contestâ€¦

plugger66 · Post: # 1090007Post **plugger66** » Tue 14 Jun 2011 2:43pm

dragit wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
SainterK wrote:I disagree.

I think they are out of the middle because they were setting up as instructed, and the ball was doing anything but.

You are right about Jack though, he can rove anything. That is why he is in there....

If MG does make it back, he has enough time to find his fitness, and a good tap ruckman is extremely valuable.
But where else can he play? Ruckmen cant rest on the bench anymore or if they do it can only be for 5 minutes a quarter. And those other guys must be poor midfielders not being able to rove to any ruckman.
Resting forward? creating an actual contestâ€¦

MG hasnt and certainly will now not be a forward. Why do you think Kosi is struggling. Forward pressure is vital. The days of sticking a guy down forward because they are tall are over. MG isnt a very good mark when played forward. He needs to jump at the ball.

dragit · Post: # 1090011Post **dragit** » Tue 14 Jun 2011 2:50pm

plugger66 wrote:MG hasnt and certainly will now not be a forward. Why do you think Kosi is struggling. Forward pressure is vital. The days of sticking a guy down forward because they are tall are over. MG isnt a very good mark when played forward. He needs to jump at the ball.

The last time you were that definitive you stated that "TOM LEDGER WOULD NOT PLAY AGAINST COLLINGWOOD"
so i'll take it with a lump of salt,
Where do think Ottens/Vardy, Jolly/Brown, Kruezer/Warnock rest?
Even Renouf kicked a bag a couple of weeks agoâ€¦
Forward pressure is great, but kicking long to 5 smalls doesn't get you a winning scoreâ€¦

SainterK · Post: # 1090020Post **SainterK** » Tue 14 Jun 2011 3:03pm

http://bigpondvideo.com/Sports-Summer-H ... tk-v-geel/

He goes OK....and note how many times he was in picture making life for Roo and Kosi easier by keeping the defenders accountable.

Keeping in mind last time MG played forward he had crappy knees, they are reportedly feeling the best they have for years. I hope he makes it back, and we seem him with a decent leap.

It's a long shot, but hoping it works...Geelong have had luck with Ottens making a late impact, maybe it's our turn

totallyfrank · Tue 14 Jun 2011 3:33pm

Thinline wrote:
Cairnsman wrote:We are making up the numbers.

The Pies have got one hand on the cup.

It hurts but it is reality...
So did we in 97. So did Geelong in 08. So did Essendon in 99. So did North Melbourne in 98 etc etc etc...

Form like Collingwood's is unsustainable.

History proves it.

They lose Thomas with a hammie, they lose Swan with a knee...Everyone has their turn...

Not signed and sealed yet.

Unsustainable? Their form hasn't been that great, only dribs and drabs, they're missing a few stars and are still smacking sides. They're just starting to peak, the same as last year and have got a fair bit of talent coming back over the next few weeks. Nothing's guaranteed but it's gonna take something extraordinary to stop them, something like a freakish hawks unit it '08. Who's gonna be that team this year?