Bellchambers, Hille, Ryder

[Calais]

You'd think one out of those three would be traded/wants out at the end of the year. Would we be interested in any?

Who would we trade? Gram comes to mind at first. Does he still have any currency?

[Bernard Shakey]

Already another thread.

[defacto]

another duplicate thread but....

exactly what we need more ruckmen. hille aint going anywhere. neither is ryder.

[Calais]

another duplicate thread but....

exactly what we need more ruckmen. hille aint going anywhere. neither is ryder.

Didn't see another thread. My bad.

[Dr Spaceman]

You'd think one out of those three would be traded/wants out at the end of the year. Would we be interested in any?

Who would we trade? Gram comes to mind at first. Does he still have any currency?

The 3 of them combined couldn't help their team overcome a Jamarless Demons side.

Duds   

[mad saint guy]

The untouchable is Ryder. No club would willingly let a player with his skill and athleticism go at his age. It all depends on exactly how highly they rate Bellchambers. All three of these players are number one rucks, with Hille being the only one who can really spend more than 10 minutes in a different position and have a meaningful contribution. That makes him the most compatible with either of the other two, yet his age makes him the most tradeable.

Honestly I have no idea which way this will go. It just remains to be seen if Bellchambers is a player worth going after. Right now I think the Bombers would be better off just playing Ryder number one with Hille backup and forward, but they deem Bellchambers too good to leave out of the side, even though it is negatively impacting the other two.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

From what we've seen of them this year and previously, I'd be pretty happy with any of the three at our club next year.
I haven't seen that much of Bellchambers, but if he's playing in the ruck ahead of Hille, who was dominant there earlier in the season, or Ryder, who also does well there, he surely has some things going for him. Plus his first name is Tom, so we simply have to get him.
Maybe we could trade Gamble and our third round draft pick for him?

[Lachy384]

No way they'll let go of Hille or Ryder so Bellchambers is the only one that could potentially leave.

Bellchambers has been overrated by the media ever since he tore up Archer in the nab cup (yes archer isn't even a ruckman).
I thought that he'd been decent in terms of his hitouts but he got killed by Martin tonight

Yes he'd definately be useful as a backup to Mcevoy who I believe will become/is a much better player, but I think if the dons were to trade him his price would be much higher than what hes actually worth.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Bellchambers may have been beaten by Martin tonight, but I'm pretty sure he's had a good year.
You say McEvoy is better, but I just looked up the stats for their game against us and Mac had 18 hitouts compared to Bellchambers 41.

[Lachy384]

Yeah he's definately improved... but personally I just don't think he has a big impact on games.

McEvoy is much better around the ground... although Bellchambers can take some big grabs. Obviously Mac's ruckwork isnt where we all want it to be yet, so I would rate them at similar levels at the moment. If his ruck work does improve which it should, he'll be the better player imo, and we don't really need two big ruckmen in the side.

If we can get him cheap though I'm all for it

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Just did some reading up on Bellchambers, including on the Essendon Big Footy page and it does seem his main strength is his ruckwork and that he doesn't necessarily do much around the ground (except at throw-ins and bounces).
So you're right, if Mac improves his ruckwork he will probably end up being better, but the question is will he? They were both taken in the draft the same year and Bellchambers seems to have gone well ahead of Mac in terms of ruckwork.
Mac's marking around the ground is excellent, but his main job is to get his hands on it in the ruck and if he doesn't do that enough it's hard to justify keeping him in the side.

[saintspremiers]

The Bombers fans idolize Ryder, he's at Windy Hill for life IMO.

Maybe Bellchambers is an outside chance.

[plugger66]

If ruckmen are so important can someone tell me who won last nights game. 3 ruckmen against a first gamer and a guy who was a backman but is rucking due to an injury to Jamar. Midfielders win footy games these days. Ruckman and tall forwards seem to be having less influence unless you can get the ball around the ground. That is why I rate the improvement of Ben. Losing hitouts. Who cares. If our mids were in form it would have little difference. However every year he has improved greatly around the ground and is excellent overhead.

[Moods]

If ruckmen are so important can someone tell me who won last nights game. 3 ruckmen against a first gamer and a guy who was a backman but is rucking due to an injury to Jamar. Midfielders win footy games these days. Ruckman and tall forwards seem to be having less influence unless you can get the ball around the ground. That is why I rate the improvement of Ben. Losing hitouts. Who cares. If our mids were in form it would have little difference. However every year he has improved greatly around the ground and is excellent overhead.

I don't agree. A good ruckman gives the midfielders first use more times than not. It means our mids don't have to constantly be roving to the opposition ruckman, which is bloody hard to do all game. It makes it hard for the mids to do anything but break even at the clearances.

They certainly don't guarantee you a win though (as seen last night) However, I reckon Hirdy has been compromised by having 3 genuine ruckmen in his team. It's slowed his team down fractionally. Also remember last night that the one player who is best at taking advantage of a dominant ruckman was absent from their team - Jobe Watson.

My criticisim of Ben is that he just hasn't been competitive in the ruck for most of the year. Losing tap outs is fine if you can impact the ruck contest - allowing the opposing ruckman to basically slot the ball down the midfielder's throat is not on though. It's certainly been encouraging to see him take some great grabs around the ground though. Personally, I thought his 2nd efforts on the ground AFTER the ruck contest were better twds the end of last year than they have been this year. In that aspect I don't think he's got better.

[plugger66]

If ruckmen are so important can someone tell me who won last nights game. 3 ruckmen against a first gamer and a guy who was a backman but is rucking due to an injury to Jamar. Midfielders win footy games these days. Ruckman and tall forwards seem to be having less influence unless you can get the ball around the ground. That is why I rate the improvement of Ben. Losing hitouts. Who cares. If our mids were in form it would have little difference. However every year he has improved greatly around the ground and is excellent overhead.

I don't agree. A good ruckman gives the midfielders first use more times than not. It means our mids don't have to constantly be roving to the opposition ruckman, which is bloody hard to do all game. It makes it hard for the mids to do anything but break even at the clearances.

They certainly don't guarantee you a win though (as seen last night) However, I reckon Hirdy has been compromised by having 3 genuine ruckmen in his team. It's slowed his team down fractionally. Also remember last night that the one player who is best at taking advantage of a dominant ruckman was absent from their team - Jobe Watson.

My criticisim of Ben is that he just hasn't been competitive in the ruck for most of the year. Losing tap outs is fine if you can impact the ruck contest - allowing the opposing ruckman to basically slot the ball down the midfielder's throat is not on though. It's certainly been encouraging to see him take some great grabs around the ground though. Personally, I thought his 2nd efforts on the ground AFTER the ruck contest were better twds the end of last year than they have been this year. In that aspect I don't think he's got better.

Well we will have to agree to disagree. Ruckmen are vital IMO but only if they can get the ball around the ground as Martin did last night. If it was all about hitting the ball to your mids we would just get tall guys who could jump but it aint. We havent all of a sudden improved in the ruck the last 2 weeks, its just our mids and good players are playing better. We won many a game in the last 2 years with Ben being the main ruckman but that was due to our good players getting first use of the ball. Look at the first GF last year. MG played terribly in the first half but our second half was much better when Kosi and Blake rucked and that wasnt due to their ruck work but around the ground. They made Jolly uncomfortable. It didnt hurt that 2 players had unbelievable games either.

If we are to get another ruckman I am saying either try and get the best or get a young kid, dont get hack tap ruckmen.

[Moods]

If ruckmen are so important can someone tell me who won last nights game. 3 ruckmen against a first gamer and a guy who was a backman but is rucking due to an injury to Jamar. Midfielders win footy games these days. Ruckman and tall forwards seem to be having less influence unless you can get the ball around the ground. That is why I rate the improvement of Ben. Losing hitouts. Who cares. If our mids were in form it would have little difference. However every year he has improved greatly around the ground and is excellent overhead.

I don't agree. A good ruckman gives the midfielders first use more times than not. It means our mids don't have to constantly be roving to the opposition ruckman, which is bloody hard to do all game. It makes it hard for the mids to do anything but break even at the clearances.

They certainly don't guarantee you a win though (as seen last night) However, I reckon Hirdy has been compromised by having 3 genuine ruckmen in his team. It's slowed his team down fractionally. Also remember last night that the one player who is best at taking advantage of a dominant ruckman was absent from their team - Jobe Watson.

My criticisim of Ben is that he just hasn't been competitive in the ruck for most of the year. Losing tap outs is fine if you can impact the ruck contest - allowing the opposing ruckman to basically slot the ball down the midfielder's throat is not on though. It's certainly been encouraging to see him take some great grabs around the ground though. Personally, I thought his 2nd efforts on the ground AFTER the ruck contest were better twds the end of last year than they have been this year. In that aspect I don't think he's got better.

Well we will have to agree to disagree. Ruckmen are vital IMO but only if they can get the ball around the ground as Martin did last night. If it was all about hitting the ball to your mids we would just get tall guys who could jump but it aint. We havent all of a sudden improved in the ruck the last 2 weeks, its just our mids and good players are playing better. We won many a game in the last 2 years with Ben being the main ruckman but that was due to our good players getting first use of the ball. Look at the first GF last year. MG played terribly in the first half but our second half was much better when Kosi and Blake rucked and that wasnt due to their ruck work but around the ground. They made Jolly uncomfortable. It didnt hurt that 2 players had unbelievable games either.

If we are to get another ruckman I am saying either try and get the best or get a young kid, dont get hack tap ruckmen.

This we agree on. I'm certainly not suggesting that Blake from Geelong is the go - thank christ he didn't end up coming to the saints. Mark Blake is a very competent tap ruckman but does nothing around the ground. Same with a couple of those carlton ruckmen that were being discussed a few weeks back.

I actually rate Bellchambers very highly. He takes an excellent grab and his ruck work is competent. I reckon he would flourish with a 1st ruck role. Not sure that big Mac is mobile enough to play the 2nd ruck role though. I get your point about the GF's last year and I agree. Gardy was terrible and was getting towelled up by Jolly. Kosi and Blake did make a huge difference. Don't reckon that Ben is in the same mould as either of those two players though in the way he moves. I reckon if Ben had taken over the 1st ruck in that 1st GF we would have lost as he wouldn't have been able to stretch Jolly the way Kos and Blake did.

[saintbrat]

Bellchambers re- signed

RISING Star favourite Dyson Heppell, young forward Stewart Crameri, Tom Bellchambers, Jason Winderlich, Heath Hocking and Cale Hooker have signed new contracts with the Bombers.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx