Why we should look to Patriots and Pies

[NoMore]

Ok everyone i will be the first to admit that i am incline to throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to dealing with this football club and it is lucky that people who are less emotional are put in place to run the place. However over the last few weeks i have been looking into something that i have noticed

I am not sure how many of you follow the NFL but i have become a big fan of it and have jumped on the patriots since the 2006. I know they win and i am jumping on a bandwagon but how can u not support a guy like Tom Brady. He reminds me much of our Roo. What i have been most impressed with is the way there coach Bill Belichick goes about things.

I think we are slowly learning from a few things in the american model. Like Ross and Belichick is a very reserved character. You won't see him jumping around with his players, picking fights in press conferences or giving anything but straight bat answers to the media. He also is fiercely loyal to those who deserve loyalty just like Ross. This brings me to my major point with the way both the Pies and the Patriots operate which seems to differ from the way alot of clubs operate.

The Patriots this year were seen to need a Pass Rusher at the draft however they chose Cornerbacks and Wideouts. When quizzed on this Belichick's answer was that we are happy with our roster and believe we have some young players capable of filling this void. It seems very similar to the way Collingwood have built and sustained success under Mick. Some people say they over rate there kids at there peril but it turns out we under rated there kids at our peril. It seems to me that unlike other clubs where they trade away players quickly and lose faith in there recruiting which everyone spends a fortune on, these clubs and now us are putting faith in the players which we choose at the draft table.

it is just my opinion that we are slowly becoming an ultra professional organisation and are being led by a coach who is learned in the ways of some of the best coaches in the world.

[stevie]

Nice post. I've followed the NFL for 23 years and love the game.
My team is the 49ers.

One thing that's always puzzled me - they sign up ex Aussie rules guys to punt, fair enough
But why have they never got an AFL star to be a receiver? Our footy players have better ball handling than any sport in the world. Have never been able to work that one out

[bergholt]

But why have they never got an AFL star to be a receiver? Our footy players have better ball handling than any sport in the world. Have never been able to work that one out

nice timing:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011 ... 228562.htm

[sunsaint]

But why have they never got an AFL star to be a receiver? Our footy players have better ball handling than any sport in the world. Have never been able to work that one out

wide receivers are Faaaaaaaaaaaast
most are a smidgen off 100mt olympic qualifying times.
I find it more surpising that NRL players havent been hunted as running backs
but back to the OP I think the situation Lyon finds himself now, HAVING to play kids from within, is a stark departure from his previous four years.
and a world apart from how Malthouse managed collingwood over the last three years.

[Bernard Shakey]

We are only playing the kids because we have to. Belichick chose not to go for a DL or DE because he knew he had the positions covered.

You've been on board his bandwagon for five years. He's been in the NFL coaching system for something like 25 years. Spent five years as head coach of the Browns in the nineties and I don't think they had a winning season.
To compare him to Malthouse maybe fair, but Ross is nothing like him.

By the way most wide receivers have pace equivalent to olympic sprinters. Our guys would be better suited to tight end, bit the NFL system means you've got to come through the college system. The only reason we've got a few punters is that nobody wants to be a punter, the lowest paid and most insecure job in the NFL.

[True Blue Sainter]

Never really been a fan of the NFL. The only American sport I really get into is the NBA, but that's a story for a different day...

I think from the NFL, we might be best off looking at the Green Bay Packers model. They come from quite a small "market size", much like our supporter base, which is in the lower-to-middle scale compared to other Melbourne clubs. They are renowned for having been successful, despite not spending ridiculous amounts of money and making big trading moves. They have a unique chemistry, and have been a dominant force despite all these factors.

[avid]

But why have they never got an AFL star to be a receiver? Our footy players have better ball handling than any sport in the world. Have never been able to work that one out

wide receivers are Faaaaaaaaaaaast
most are a smidgen off 100mt olympic qualifying times.
I find it more surpising that NRL players havent been hunted as running backs
but back to the OP I think the situation Lyon finds himself now, HAVING to play kids from within, is a stark departure from his previous four years.
and a world apart from how Malthouse managed collingwood over the last three years.

I always thought Nicky Winmar could have been an all-time great cornerback. Light, mobile and unerring when it comes to brilliantly finding the ball in space.
I suppose he could have been a fantasy wide receiver too -- maybe not tall enough -- but I though he fitted the classic mould of a champion cornerback.
(Darrel Green of the Redskins was my favorite for years and years. He played cornerback for years and years and years -- until he was almost 40, like Harves!)

[python]

Being a Jets fan, I really don't want anything Patriot related to be involved with the saints here.

But having said that, I can definitely imagine Ross slowly walking around the boundary line with a grey hoodie over his head

[stevie]

The salary cap being introduced in 2000 completely changed the NFL.

On one hand, it made the comp more even, with a lot of different teams getting to the Super Bowl.

But it did kncok the standard back quite a bit, compared to the late 80's - early 90's.
The Niners and Cowboys of old would've spanked the Packs, Steelers, Colts and Pats or recent years.

Montana to Rice...

[NoMore]

i think what is being said is right in that ross is being forced to play kids but so was Malthouse after the failed 2003 year. They thought they could go again and it fell apart. I was more probably looking at the way Belichick drafts people he believes fit his system and are good people. There is a bit of controversy over the latest draft with the Pats taking a loose cannon as a back up quarter back. This seems very like Ross. Apart from Lovet he generally tries to draft people he believes are good people who fit our system.

Also i realise Belichick has been in the NFL a long time. I am not an idiot and i realise the comp was going a long time before i got into it. I just think it interesting that 2 coaches who are very succesful are often thought by there respective medias to so overrate there own young players. Yet they continue to prove them wrong. I think we should learn from this

[sunsaint]

Lyon wanted Cousins but it want until Westaway stepped in to block it.
& he also obviously wanted Lovett so not sure about the quality character type, and he certainly hasnt dumped anyone for the "indescretions" that have been a common place occurance at the club
I will always remember a quitely spoken Thompson in the early 00's fending off another "how good are the saints kids" question, he just replied "I think we've got some pretty good kids too"
virtually all of their players are home grown, have heavily penalised players that have stepped out of line, and rarely(that spring to mind) traded for name players.
Perhaps they fit the Belichick mold a bit better?

[Mr Magic]

Lyon wanted Cousins but it want until Westaway stepped in to block it.
& he also obviously wanted Lovett so not sure about the quality character type, and he certainly hasnt dumped anyone for the "indescretions" that have been a common place occurance at the club
I will always remember a quitely spoken Thompson in the early 00's fending off another "how good are the saints kids" question, he just replied "I think we've got some pretty good kids too"
virtually all of their players are home grown, have heavily penalised players that have stepped out of line, and rarely(that spring to mind) traded for name players.
Perhaps they fit the Belichick mold a bit better?

You mean other than Ottens and Mooney?

And I would think that the 'riches' provided by Geelong's 'breeding program' (ie the Father/Son rule) more than compensates for a lack of high draft picks and renders the comparison you're attempting to make a little far-fetched.

Maybe if we could have had a Scarlett, Ablett, Ablett, Blake and Hawkins for second/third round draft picks we may not have gone the 'recycled' route?

Oh and btw, how many times did SJ get into trouble before Thompson/Costa/Geelong were forced to do something about him?

[gringo]

Talking of personal problems, what has happened with Mitch Morton at the Tigers? He was ahead of Riewoldt when Hardwick took over, now I can only assume he is having issues with depression after being left out of the team? I would love to get him down at the saints, he is a magic kick, could become a mid, half back etc. just needs some fitness?

[spert]

American sport -gawd what a snore fest, but anyway look back at North Melbourne who bought the players to win their first flag.. many mature players near the end of their careers from other clubs mixed with a some home grown players. Choosing the right players to get balance across the field was how they did it. While we should be building a team, it makes a lot of sense to get what you need and bugger the consequences in order to deliver. Once supporters get a premiership, the whys and hows are forgotten and all is forgiven. *Edit- a mate who is a Pies supporter did tell me that all they needed to go the next step was a ruckman and a good in and under player, and once they got Jolly and Ball, they were pretty sure they would go all the way and it paid off.

[sunsaint]

]

You mean other than Ottens and Mooney?

And I would think that the 'riches' provided by Geelong's 'breeding program' (ie the Father/Son rule) more than compensates for a lack of high draft picks and renders the comparison you're attempting to make a little far-fetched.

Maybe if we could have had a Scarlett, Ablett, Ablett, Blake and Hawkins for second/third round draft picks we may not have gone the 'recycled' route?

Oh and btw, how many times did SJ get into trouble before Thompson/Costa/Geelong were forced to do something about him?

well done, you came up with two outside players (mooney 11 games with North after being drafted in '96, jeesh)
And i would think father/son fits perfectly with the "from within" criteria
as for Johnson as I said, they DID crackdown, so at least they penalise.

[joffaboy]

[And i would think father/son fits perfectly with the "from within" criteria.

Father/Son is a flw in the draft system.

Ablett, Ablett, Hawkins, Scarlett, Blake, all for nothing

So because we were s.hit in the 80's we still have to suffer now?

fair Dinkum

[sunsaint]

[And i would think father/son fits perfectly with the "from within" criteria.

Father/Son is a flw in the draft system.

Ablett, Ablett, Hawkins, Scarlett, Blake, all for nothing

So because we were s.hit in the 80's we still have to suffer now?

fair Dinkum

no its not a flaw in the draft ssytem
It is a rule that is the same for every club
you can only be sh!tty that our ex-players dont breed footballers.

[Mr Magic]

]

You mean other than Ottens and Mooney?

And I would think that the 'riches' provided by Geelong's 'breeding program' (ie the Father/Son rule) more than compensates for a lack of high draft picks and renders the comparison you're attempting to make a little far-fetched.

Maybe if we could have had a Scarlett, Ablett, Ablett, Blake and Hawkins for second/third round draft picks we may not have gone the 'recycled' route?

Oh and btw, how many times did SJ get into trouble before Thompson/Costa/Geelong were forced to do something about him?

well done, you came up with two outside players (mooney 11 games with North after being drafted in '96, jeesh)
And i would think father/son fits perfectly with the "from within" criteria
as for Johnson as I said, they DID crackdown, so at least they penalise.

Well it wasn't too difficult to come up with them - they were pretty obvious if you were actully trying to think of them. I didn't include Harley because he was only at PA for very short time ansd I wasn't trying to obfuscate the discussion with red herrings.

As for the Father/Son riches - I wazs merely pointing out that had we been confronted with similar talent then quite possibly we wouldn't have used so many darft picks (many around the same area that Geelong used on those Father/son picks) on trading for 'recycleds'?

As for the SJ issue - your post made it seem like they were 'disciplinarians' when in fact they allowed SJ to get away with abberant behaviour a number of times before they acted. And quite frankly how would you (or I or anybody else) actually know what behavioural issues they've been confronted with? We only know about the ones that get publicized.

BTW, are you still waiting for GT to ride in on his white horse and save the day from teh disaster RL has wreaked on us?

[Cairnsman]

[And i would think father/son fits perfectly with the "from within" criteria.

Father/Son is a flw in the draft system.

Ablett, Ablett, Hawkins, Scarlett, Blake, all for nothing

So because we were s.hit in the 80's we still have to suffer now?

fair Dinkum

With the relatively succesful period we have just had we should be right then in about 20 to 30 years time with the father/son rule.

Lowe Junior
Harvey Junior
Burke Junior
Thomson Junior
Locket Junior
Winmar Junior
Harvey Junior
Jones Junior
Roo Junior
Monty Junior
Dal Junior
Fisher Junior
Baker Junior (this kid will be angry too)
Milne Junior
Kosi Junior
Ball Junior
Hayes Junior
Gilbo Junior
Goddard Junior

I can't wait.

I'll be about eighty.

[sunsaint]

BTW, are you still waiting for GT to ride in on his white horse and save the day from teh disaster RL has wreaked on us?

talk about red herrings
find one post of mine that even hints that I want Grant Thomas back at the club.
all coaches have their faults, sadly some here think there are certain subjects off the discussion table. But thats a whole other thread
Mooney played 11 games for North in three years, moving after his maiden year with them. Hardly a north player either

[saintbrat]

With the relatively succesful period we have just had we should be right then in about 20 to 30 years time with the father/son rule.

Lowe Junior
Harvey Junior
Burke Junior ( Girls only_
Thomson Junior
Locket Junior ( Girls Only)
Winmar Junior ( Not playing football)
Harvey Junior ( 2 harvey's?)
Jones Junior -
Roo Junior
Monty Junior
Dal Junior
Fisher Junior
Baker Junior (this kid will be angry too)
Milne Junior
Kosi Junior
Ball Junior Hayes Junior
Gilbo Junior
Goddard Junior

I can't wait.

I'll be about eighty.[/quote]

[Mr Magic]

BTW, are you still waiting for GT to ride in on his white horse and save the day from teh disaster RL has wreaked on us?

talk about red herrings
find one post of mine that even hints that I want Grant Thomas back at the club.
all coaches have their faults, sadly some here think there are certain subjects off the discussion table. But thats a whole other thread
Mooney played 11 games for North in three years, moving after his maiden year with them. Hardly a north player either

Your posting history tels anypne who's remotely interested what your agenda is.
You rarely post anything positive - mainly negative comments about this Coach.

Amazing when you consider his 'faulty coaching' has seen us play off for the last 2 premierships.
Just imagine what we'd have achieved if he's been a 'good' coach?