I love a good Grant Thomas Bake...

[plugger66]

How exactly is the draw extremely well run.?

It is lopsided.
Full of irregularities.
Certain teams always play each other twice.
Blockbusters.
No attempt to even try and even up the number of games played by each club against each other club over time.

A sports-loving foreigner looking at it would conclude that at best the AFL is extremely backward in producing such an unfair schedule.
At worst they would conclude the AFL is corrupt.

It must be fun thinking everything is corrupt. Apart from playing 34 games, the draw will never be level even if rotated. How about playing the Saints this year compared to last or the WCE this year compared to last. Could go on, Tigers, Essendon, Dogs. The draw isnt corrupt because it isnt hidden, the AFL have always said it is about maximising attendance. But I suppose it is better to whinge and say corruption is everywhere in the AFL. Still cant work out why we get more and more sponsors with a corrupt competition. usually sponsors dont like being associated with things that. Just maybe it is the envy of every other competition in Australia.

[Johnny Member]

Grant Thomas is spot on.

Anderscum is braindead.
Continually wants to change the game.
Never consults.
Doesn't think things through.
Presides over a corrupt draw.
A corrupt draft.
A corrupt MRP.
Umpires being co-erced into different rule interpretations on a week by week basis.
Pushes a new clubs agenda based on marketing criteria rather than what is sustainable and wanted.
And now we learn he only got the job because he and Dimwit are peas in a pod!

I agree.

The argument always comes down to 'but they have millions of dollars, so it must be well run'.

But since when should the goal of a sporting administration be to make money?

It should always be about making the sport as balanced and as fair a competition as possible. Obviously you want to ensure financial viability, but only to make sure the competition can remain - not at the expense of the competition itself.

This clearly, is not on the AFL's agenda. And why the average supporter buys the 'we've got heaps more cash than any other sport so the comp is obviously well run' line has me scratching my head.

Why does a footy fan give a stuff how much money the AFL has in the bank? Surely the footy fan wants the sport to remain as true to the original sport as possible, and is a genuine competition so they can see their club have the same opportunity as the others to win the flag fair and square.


The AFL business is run well (although with the product they have and the consumer base they have, I can't see how it could fail anyway), but the sport itself is an absolute debacle.

I don't barrack for the AFL. At the end of the year, when that disgusting fat f*** Demetriou gets up and says 'we want to thank our supporters' I nearly vomit. I don't support him. I don't support the AFL. I'm not joining in this supposed fight against all other sporting codes that threaten his $2m pay packet.

I support the Saints. I want them to play in a competition that gives each club the same chances as the others.
I don't give a s*** how rich the comp that the Saints play in is. I'd rather them play in the amateurs if it meant a competition with an ounce of integrity.

[Johnny Member]

The draw isnt corrupt because it isnt hidden, the AFL have always said it is about maximising attendance. But I suppose it is better to whinge and say corruption is everywhere in the AFL.

But that is corruption.

The sport and competition is being compromised in order to make more money.
This means the AFL are intentionally balancing the scales in the favour of places and clubs that they see as being more profitable.

[Johnny Member]

Still cant work out why we get more and more sponsors with a corrupt competition. usually sponsors dont like being associated with things that. Just maybe it is the envy of every other competition in Australia.

Come on.

For 100 years or more, aussie rules footy has been a religion in Victoria, South Australia, Western Australia, Tasmania and the Northern Territory.

A deadset religion that has drawn capacity crowds in each state to the big games.

It's always been huge as a sport, and adored by over 2 thirds of the entire country.


If anyone wants to take credit for the way the game is now in terms of marketability and exposure - it's clearly Wayne Jackson.

Once they effectively merged the leagues and had the eyes of all states looking at the one comp, it's no surprise it's now as big as it is.


So please, you can't possibly be giving credit to Demetriou and Anderson for the sponsors queueing up to be exposed to a comp that is followed seriously by 5 of the states, and slightly noticed by the other 2.

[Moods]

Still cant work out why we get more and more sponsors with a corrupt competition. usually sponsors dont like being associated with things that. Just maybe it is the envy of every other competition in Australia.

Come on.

For 100 years or more, aussie rules footy has been a religion in Victoria, South Australia, Western Australia, Tasmania and the Northern Territory.

A deadset religion that has drawn capacity crowds in each state to the big games.

It's always been huge as a sport, and adored by over 2 thirds of the entire country.


If anyone wants to take credit for the way the game is now in terms of marketability and exposure - it's clearly Wayne Jackson.

Once they effectively merged the leagues and had the eyes of all states looking at the one comp, it's no surprise it's now as big as it is.


So please, you can't possibly be giving credit to Demetriou and Anderson for the sponsors queueing up to be exposed to a comp that is followed seriously by 5 of the states, and slightly noticed by the other 2.

Different era these days Johnny. Back in the 60's and 70's the culture of Victorians, sth Australians etc was virtually cricket in summer, footy in winter. With the IT age we live soo many different options for people andb so many sports now compete with each other. It's probably the reason why AFL is no longer the most played sport in the country, and junior comps aren't inundated with players like they were when I was growing up.

AFL has been brought into new markets. Not saying that Demetriou and Anderson can take all the credit for that, but they are part of it. The stadiums we watch the footy at are far better. How many times I have read on here about ppl refusing to go to the footy at the G because it's too wet or cold and they didn't want to put their families through that. Now we have a roof over a stadium FFS! let alone stand in the outer with your son or daughter and subject them to drunks peeing in cans because it's too crowded to get to a toilet.

The AFL comp isn't perfect by any stretch, but if you see the mess the ARU and the NRL, not to mention soccer and basketball, have made of their sports, then I'm always staggered when ppl sook about our admin.

They have managed to keep struggling clubs alive - something other AFL presidents haven't given a stuff about. If the saints have a period of crapness you may just wish that Demetriou and Anderson are at the helm instead of some other crony.

[matrix]

well ill be, plugger disagrees
what a surprise

4 man bench AND a sub for me

[Enrico_Misso]

How exactly is the draw extremely well run.?

It is lopsided.
Full of irregularities.
Certain teams always play each other twice.
Blockbusters.
No attempt to even try and even up the number of games played by each club against each other club over time.

A sports-loving foreigner looking at it would conclude that at best the AFL is extremely backward in producing such an unfair schedule.
At worst they would conclude the AFL is corrupt.

It must be fun thinking everything is corrupt. Apart from playing 34 games, the draw will never be level even if rotated. How about playing the Saints this year compared to last or the WCE this year compared to last. Could go on, Tigers, Essendon, Dogs. The draw isnt corrupt because it isnt hidden, the AFL have always said it is about maximising attendance. But I suppose it is better to whinge and say corruption is everywhere in the AFL. Still cant work out why we get more and more sponsors with a corrupt competition. usually sponsors dont like being associated with things that. Just maybe it is the envy of every other competition in Australia.

Well perhaps the EPL should take a leaf out of the AFL's book and schedule their season around maximising attendances and ratings.

You could have ManU and City playing off 4 times in ratings blockbusters.
Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool could all be scheduled to play more matches against the other Giants.

Won't happen because there would be a massive outcry.
As such a lopsided draw based on revenue is just outrageously unfair.

But that is exactly what the AFL does.
They have no credibility on this whatsoever.
THE DRAW IS A TOTAL AND UNMITIGATED DISGRACE.

[joffaboy]

The AFl are decietful, sometimes duplicitious, are bullies, cover up bad or potential corruption (Whispers in the Sky), change rules mid year (interchange and outcomes of games), have introduced rules that do not add to the spectacle (interchange rule, this years paly on rule).

But as a whole they are not corrupt. And they stick religiously to their corporate strategy which is to increase attendance, and ratings in both traditional and non traditional AFL population centres, and increase participation.

The AFL want to maximise attendances, thats why it seems Collingwood get a good draw, that why we have had 6 Friday night games (ratings puller) a season over the past three or so years.

The AFL, has once again secured the future of all Victorian clubs with their TV rights deal. $1.2 bill or something is incredible and they should be wholeheartedly congratulated.

If it wasn't for the AFL commission and its aims over the past decade (before that they wanted to get rid of clubs), clubs like North, Bulldogs, Melbourne, even Richmond, and the Saints could have gone to the wall.

If it wasn't for the draft that the AFL introduced 25 years ago, we would never had got a shot at the flag in 09 and 10.

No the AFL aren't corrupt, but they cant operate on a level playing field as we have 10 Victorian clubs, 9 in one city in a competition of 18 Australia wide.

For a small provincial game only really played in the Southern States of Australia, its governing body has done a remarkable job.

[Saints43]

I can't understand how any St Kilda supporter would laud a competition management that increases the financial wealth of the league by reducing our clubs access to equal oppotunity to make money via fixturing and stadium arrangements which reduces our opportunity to win a premiership.

[Johnny Member]

For a small provincial game only really played in the Southern States of Australia, its governing body has done a remarkable job.

It's been played and supported religously in Western Australia, South Australia, Tasmania, Victoria and the Northern Territory for ever!

The only states not interested (and they still aren't) are Queensland and New South Wales.

Making it a (or arguably the) National sport was clearly Wayne Jackson's doings. The only reason it wasn't a 'powerhouse' sport, was because each state was doing their own thing. Naturally, once they all joined forces it went boom!
It was smart from Jackson - because it secured the future of the sport yet at the same time, didn't need to compromise the essence of the game and competition.

Note I said didn't need to.


As for the much hyped billion dollar TV rights deal that the AFL should get a ticker-tape parade for, even the lowly and apparently basket case NRL (which has only ever been a 2 state sport compared to the AFL's 5 states) are expecting between $840m-$1b for their upcoming TV rights deal.

Jesus, even the netball rights are up around the $2m mark!



They're politicians these blokes. They take our sport, which everyone loved anyway, then sell it back to us, then tell us all how great they are for making so much cash!

[markp]

The AFl are decietful, sometimes duplicitious, are bullies, cover up bad or potential corruption (Whispers in the Sky), change rules mid year (interchange and outcomes of games), have introduced rules that do not add to the spectacle (interchange rule, this years paly on rule).

But as a whole they are not corrupt. And they stick religiously to their corporate strategy which is to increase attendance, and ratings in both traditional and non traditional AFL population centres, and increase participation.

The AFL want to maximise attendances, thats why it seems Collingwood get a good draw, that why we have had 6 Friday night games (ratings puller) a season over the past three or so years.

The AFL, has once again secured the future of all Victorian clubs with their TV rights deal. $1.2 bill or something is incredible and they should be wholeheartedly congratulated.

If it wasn't for the AFL commission and its aims over the past decade (before that they wanted to get rid of clubs), clubs like North, Bulldogs, Melbourne, even Richmond, and the Saints could have gone to the wall.

If it wasn't for the draft that the AFL introduced 25 years ago, we would never had got a shot at the flag in 09 and 10.

No the AFL aren't corrupt, but they cant operate on a level playing field as we have 10 Victorian clubs, 9 in one city in a competition of 18 Australia wide.

For a small provincial game only really played in the Southern States of Australia, its governing body has done a remarkable job.

I agree.

And to paraphrase KP, this aint a f*ck'n democracy.

MRP's, drafts, fixtures, etc, do not legally have to be 'fair'.

Once you've decided to create a new club, obviously you have to make it easier for them and give them greater resources, or they wont survive.

And of course it's easier for teams like the filth to win a flag... you bring the money, you get better treatment. How much sweeter would that make a Saints flag, or our ascendancy to a power club?

But when has it ever been different, or fairer?

If people expect 'fair' they're on the wrong planet.

The game is being run magnificently... if only the country were run as well.

[Johnny Member]

But when has it ever been different, or fairer?

If people expect 'fair' they're on the wrong planet.

It was fairer only 2 years ago before the Gold Coast were handed the bottom team's draft picks.

[Johnny Member]

The game is being run magnificently... if only the country were run as well.

Why the hell would a sporting competition be run anything like a country?

Both have completely different purposes and goals.

[Johnny Member]

With the IT age we live soo many different options for people andb so many sports now compete with each other. It's probably the reason why AFL is no longer the most played sport in the country, and junior comps aren't inundated with players like they were when I was growing up.

So what exactly, are the AFL doing so well then?

If kids aren't playing it, and people are perferring to do other things, why are the AFL so great?

What are they basing their greatness on?

[markp]

But when has it ever been different, or fairer?

If people expect 'fair' they're on the wrong planet.

It was fairer only 2 years ago before the Gold Coast were handed the bottom team's draft picks.

How would you have handled their entry into the competition... given them the picks after the Premier's?

Weren't the Swans and the Lions given similar 'unfair' boosts via higher salary cap, etc?

[markp]

The game is being run magnificently... if only the country were run as well.

Why the hell would a sporting competition be run anything like a country?

Both have completely different purposes and goals.

'As well', not 'like'....

[Johnny Member]

How would you have handled their entry into the competition... given them the picks after the Premier's?

I wouldn't have had them enter the competition in the first place.

[markp]

How would you have handled their entry into the competition... given them the picks after the Premier's?

I wouldn't have had them enter the competition in the first place.

That wasn't the question.

Don't dodge.

[Johnny Member]

How would you have handled their entry into the competition... given them the picks after the Premier's?

I wouldn't have had them enter the competition in the first place.

That wasn't the question.

Don't dodge.

Well it answers it.

I would have moved a club if it was so neccessary to have another club in Queensland.

[Thinline]

How would you have handled their entry into the competition... given them the picks after the Premier's?

I wouldn't have had them enter the competition in the first place.

That wasn't the question.

Don't dodge.

Well it answers it.

I would have moved a club if it was so neccessary to have another club in Queensland.

North Melbourne backflipped.

We are witnessing Plan B.

[markp]

How would you have handled their entry into the competition... given them the picks after the Premier's?

I wouldn't have had them enter the competition in the first place.

That wasn't the question.

Don't dodge.

Well it answers it.

I would have moved a club if it was so neccessary to have another club in Queensland.

Ah, roger.

[stinger]

well ill be, plugger disagrees
what a surprise

4 man bench AND a sub for me

as strange as it may seem..that is my position also....

[shmic_s]

I like the new rule.
Enjoy watching the match ups.
And like the way it opens up towards the end of the game.

Was against it at the start of the year, but really wouldn't want it any other way now.

[joffaboy]

It's been played and supported religously in Western Australia, South Australia, Tasmania, Victoria and the Northern Territory for ever!

The only states not interested (and they still aren't) are Queensland and New South Wales.

The biggest and third biggest most populous states making up about 40% of the entire population is not insignificant.

Making it a (or arguably the) National sport was clearly Wayne Jackson's doings. The only reason it wasn't a 'powerhouse' sport, was because each state was doing their own thing. Naturally, once they all joined forces it went boom!

It was smart from Jackson - because it secured the future of the sport yet at the same time, didn't need to compromise the essence of the game and competition.

Can you inform me the concessions WCE recieved when they entered the competition?

As for the much hyped billion dollar TV rights deal that the AFL should get a ticker-tape parade for, even the lowly and apparently basket case NRL (which has only ever been a 2 state sport compared to the AFL's 5 states) are expecting between $840m-$1b for their upcoming TV rights deal.

1) Who used the hyperbole of a ticker tape parade for the AFL apart from you.
Five years ago the 820 million was thought to be a once in a lifetime deal and was written as such by many in the football media.

Five years later the rights have gone up by anothe 50%. Incredible result.

2) NRL consistantly outrates AFL both on Free and pay TV. It is played Internationally, has a team in NZ in the local comp and has the SOO and Internationals to sell but can only get within $250 mill at best and $400 mill at worst near the AFL.

To use the hyperbolic term basket case for NRl is to be ignorant or decietful.

Jesus, even the netball rights are up around the $2m mark!

So by those figures AFl is worth a thousand times more than netball? Pretty fair assessment.

They're politicians these blokes. They take our sport, which everyone loved anyway, then sell it back to us, then tell us all how great they are for making so much cash!

These blokes, these so called politicians have kept 10 AFl clubs in Victoria, 9 in Melbourne.

The two that went, South in 1981, and Fitzroy in 1996 have both won flags under their new guises.

Footscray, North, Richmond, Melbourne, and St.kilda supporters have all been saved from possible liquidation and oblivion by the AFL set up.

The AFL has saved the goose that laid the golden egg and the AFL Jewell in the Crown, Melbourne football supporters and their traditional teams.

And it doesn't matter how much RodgerFox type hyperbole you resort to Mr Member.

[joffaboy]

see above