Saints & Bulldogs in Same Boat !

[Junction Oval]

The Bulldogs look tired, the Saints look tired, but not Geelong. What's the difference. How long can Geelong stay up on top.

Is there a definitive answer.

Time for Ross and Rodney to have a coffee together.

[SainterK]

Nothing like the same boat.

Dogs haven't even made a grand final under Eade.

Our season also went a good few weeks longer than both teams.

[Beno88]

Geelong aren't under pressure to win a flag.

[Cairnsman]

The Cats will fall either at some stage later this year or get completely smashed in the finals or their complete demise will come early next year.

That is why the new coach hasn't tinkered with the game plan because with the exception of the smashing they received in the prelim last year nothing appeard broken so no need to fix it.

The Dogs however have always had problems. They were a KPP short of a GF, hence the need to get Big Bad. You could argue they were also short one or two top liners for a tilt at it.

Geelongs top liners > St Kildas > Bulldogs.

Talent. You've got to have some to get a start.

[joffaboy]

Geelong aren't under pressure to win a flag.

Of course they are - every team is every single season.

[Beno88]

Geelong aren't under pressure to win a flag.

Of course they are - every team is every single season.

You know what I mean. An elusive flag. A long awaited flag.

[busso mick]

The Cats will fall either at some stage later this year or get completely smashed in the finals or their complete demise will come early next year.

That is why the new coach hasn't tinkered with the game plan because with the exception of the smashing they received in the prelim last year nothing appeard broken so no need to fix it.

The Dogs however have always had problems. They were a KPP short of a GF, hence the need to get Big Bad. You could argue they were also short one or two top liners for a tilt at it.

Geelongs top liners > St Kildas > Bulldogs.

Talent. You've got to have some to get a start.

I disagree about the Geelong game plan. Chris Scott has introduced a more defensive approach to their game and incorporated the defensive press like everyone else. Under Thompson they were a freewheeling side with an open backline, now they have conceded less points than anyone else this year. I agree about Geelong have more overall talent than us and Bulldogs (by quite a way).

[Cairnsman]

The Cats will fall either at some stage later this year or get completely smashed in the finals or their complete demise will come early next year.

That is why the new coach hasn't tinkered with the game plan because with the exception of the smashing they received in the prelim last year nothing appeard broken so no need to fix it.

The Dogs however have always had problems. They were a KPP short of a GF, hence the need to get Big Bad. You could argue they were also short one or two top liners for a tilt at it.

Geelongs top liners > St Kildas > Bulldogs.

Talent. You've got to have some to get a start.

I disagree about the Geelong game plan. Chris Scott has introduced a more defensive approach to their game and incorporated the defensive press like everyone else. Under Thompson they were a freewheeling side with an open backline, now they have conceded less points than anyone else this year. I agree about Geelong have more overall talent than us and Bulldogs (by quite a way).

Yeah ok he's tinkered with that part of the game plan but he was sort of in the same positin as RL was at end of last season. When you get to a prelim or a GF you shouldn't have to make wholesale changes. You have to wait until something breaks. For us, we were officially declared broken after the Dons game. The Dogs were declared broken yesterday. When will it be for the Cats. I personally think they are going to struggle as the season gets longer and I certainly can't see them getting anywhere near the Pies in the finals. Who knows it could be a Pies v Eagles GF.

[Thinline]

The Cats will fall either at some stage later this year or get completely smashed in the finals or their complete demise will come early next year.

That is why the new coach hasn't tinkered with the game plan because with the exception of the smashing they received in the prelim last year nothing appeard broken so no need to fix it.

The Dogs however have always had problems. They were a KPP short of a GF, hence the need to get Big Bad. You could argue they were also short one or two top liners for a tilt at it.

Geelongs top liners > St Kildas > Bulldogs.

Talent. You've got to have some to get a start.

I disagree about the Geelong game plan. Chris Scott has introduced a more defensive approach to their game and incorporated the defensive press like everyone else. Under Thompson they were a freewheeling side with an open backline, now they have conceded less points than anyone else this year. I agree about Geelong have more overall talent than us and Bulldogs (by quite a way).

Yeah ok he's tinkered with that part of the game plan but he was sort of in the same positin as RL was at end of last season. When you get to a prelim or a GF you shouldn't have to make wholesale changes. You have to wait until something breaks. For us, we were officially declared broken after the Dons game. The Dogs were declared broken yesterday. When will it be for the Cats. I personally think they are going to struggle as the season gets longer and I certainly can't see them getting anywhere near the Pies in the finals. Who knows it could be a Pies v Eagles GF.

The same logic could be applied to both the Pies and the Eagles.

As we well know, you can't maintain unbreakable form forever - something Pies have done for 1.33 seasons now. As for the Eagles, they are a young side who are on an age basis alone are more likely to slide than they are to maintain a season long rage. On that it's every chance that Richmond may have slid a spanner in the works of the Bombers charge.

I think this season's far more open than many are acknowledging.

For mine Hawthorn looks to be playing the most consistent, workman-like, finals-type footy.

But buggered if I'm gonna make predictions now. Perhaps this is the year an in form 'at the pointy end' lower eight side flies in the face of history?

[dragit]

The reality is that this perceived 'gulf', between us and geelong is a bit of luck…

We are terribly out of form, but could still easily be 5 - 3
A few going the other way and Geelong could easily be 4 - 4

They are flying but it's May, I personally don't see them actually winning a flag this year, Ottens goes down (as usual) and they will look ordinary, & lets see how Ling, Milburn, Mooney & Scarlett are travelling in October.

[plugger66]

The reality is that this perceived 'gulf', between us and geelong is a bit of luck…

We are terribly out of form, but could still easily be 5 - 3
A few going the other way and Geelong could easily be 4 - 4

They are flying but it's May, I personally don't see them actually winning a flag this year, Ottens goes down (as usual) and they will look ordinary, & lets see how Ling, Milburn, Mooney & Scarlett are travelling in October.

The gulf is 5 and half games. You can do what you like with words but they are on top without a loss and we are 12th.

[InkerSaint]

Back on topic:

The only boat the Saints and Dogs could be said to share is an unexpected fall from grace.

There's no shortage of talent on the Dogs' list but I've never been convinced about Rocket and I don't think the team is playing for their coach. When's the last time one of their senior players trotted out a Lenny-ism and said "we love Rocket"? Or maybe I am showing my ignorance and have missed it.

[Ice Wolf]

The Bulldogs look tired, the Saints look tired, but not Geelong. What's the difference. How long can Geelong stay up on top.
:

Geelong have the Cattery where they can routinely beat the crap out of teams to build their confidence.

[dragit]

The reality is that this perceived 'gulf', between us and geelong is a bit of luck…

We are terribly out of form, but could still easily be 5 - 3
A few going the other way and Geelong could easily be 4 - 4

They are flying but it's May, I personally don't see them actually winning a flag this year, Ottens goes down (as usual) and they will look ordinary, & lets see how Ling, Milburn, Mooney & Scarlett are travelling in October.

The gulf is 5 and half games. You can do what you like with words but they are on top without a loss and we are 12th.

Always bringing the FUN back to the chat,
Lets just consider wins vs losses, lets not bother discussing any of the ins and outs, maybes etc.
So how does your logic work then, we lost to the best team in comp by 1 point, yet we are at least 7 years away from any remote success?

[BAM! (shhhh)]

So, even though the Cats are undefeated, we're still expecting them to fall?

The Cats are proof that the Saints and Dogs are responsible for their own demise. They've tweaked their defensive zone to implement a full forward press, and rebuilt their offense to work the rebound, boundary and stoppages rather than blitzing the middle.

That's it.

Veteran leaders at the Cattery continue to demand excellence, Scarlett running the backline, Joel Corey's playing his best for 3-4 years... Bartel and Selwood continue to get first hands on it, and find the second hands. If these guys all forget how to play, sure, they'll slip... but until that happens, the Cats are taking a tilt at another flag, and can go head to head with anyone.

[plugger66]

The reality is that this perceived 'gulf', between us and geelong is a bit of luck…

We are terribly out of form, but could still easily be 5 - 3
A few going the other way and Geelong could easily be 4 - 4

They are flying but it's May, I personally don't see them actually winning a flag this year, Ottens goes down (as usual) and they will look ordinary, & lets see how Ling, Milburn, Mooney & Scarlett are travelling in October.

The gulf is 5 and half games. You can do what you like with words but they are on top without a loss and we are 12th.

Always bringing the FUN back to the chat,
Lets just consider wins vs losses, lets not bother discussing any of the ins and outs, maybes etc.
So how does your logic work then, we lost to the best team in comp by 1 point, yet we are at least 7 years away from any remote success?

Strange.

[dragit]

Strange.

Strangier - yep i just made up a word

[Megsie]

not in same boat . They have barry hall.....whoses use-by date expired

2 seasons ago.

[spert]

Like any premiership team, the Cats (and Collingwood) have strength across the ground, not just one or two positions. Their midfield and onballers are way ahead of us, and their experienced players lead by example, which makes the less experienced players walk taller -that's why they won premierships and that's why they are up the top now.

[InkerSaint]

Like any premiership team, the Cats (and Collingwood) have strength across the ground, not just one or two positions. Their midfield and onballers are way ahead of us, and their experienced players lead by example, which makes the less experienced players walk taller -that's why they won premierships and that's why they are up the top now.

There's nothing in that description that doesn't fit the Saints of 9 months ago. If anything surely the lesson is it doesn't take much to drop off the pace.

[Con Gorozidis]

Back on topic:

The only boat the Saints and Dogs could be said to share is an unexpected fall from grace.

There's no shortage of talent on the Dogs' list but I've never been convinced about Rocket and I don't think the team is playing for their coach. When's the last time one of their senior players trotted out a Lenny-ism and said "we love Rocket"? Or maybe I am showing my ignorance and have missed it.

Ive never been convinced by rocket. Seems a very weird unit.

At this very early stage I think its hats off to Chris Scott.

[sunsaint]

Like any premiership team, the Cats (and Collingwood) have strength across the ground, not just one or two positions. Their midfield and onballers are way ahead of us, and their experienced players lead by example, which makes the less experienced players walk taller -that's why they won premierships and that's why they are up the top now.

There's nothing in that description that doesn't fit the Saints of 9 months ago. If aonything surely the lesson is it doesn't take much to drop off the pace.

the only "small" difference being all team mates knew that the games best player was going to leave, and the players werent playing for a dissinterested coach, who was also leaving. That and two GF's under their belt.
Geelong and Stkilda started the climb together.

[spert]

Like any premiership team, the Cats (and Collingwood) have strength across the ground, not just one or two positions. Their midfield and onballers are way ahead of us, and their experienced players lead by example, which makes the less experienced players walk taller -that's why they won premierships and that's why they are up the top now.

There's nothing in that description that doesn't fit the Saints of 9 months ago. If aonything surely the lesson is it doesn't take much to drop off the pace.

the only "small" difference being all team mates knew that the games best player was going to leave, and the players werent playing for a dissinterested coach, who was also leaving. That and two GF's under their belt.
Geelong and Stkilda started the climb together.

Unfortunately in '10 our forward line failed in the replay GF, and the midfield got nullified, so we lost our balance across the ground, whereas Collingwood had winners across most lines, and that's how you win a premiership.

[Sobraz]

I still don't understand why in the general public it is percieved that the Dogs have a more talented list than ours, and we had gone further than them due to discipline and structures...

They have noone of the calibre of Roo, Hayes or BJ... Lake is (or was) Sam Fisher level, then they have a handful of mids no better than Dal...

Their second tier is a bunch of front running squibs led by Gia...

Yet many percieved (and perhaps still do), that their talent runs deep... They have a decent team with many holes, and are about where I expected them to be looking at the list coming into the season...

Like us, no real kids showing a hell of alot, except for Ward who looks a gun... They are behind us IMO, and wont bounce back, and will be down for longer...

[lurker#134]

Like us, no real kids showing a hell of alot, except for Ward who looks a gun... They are behind us IMO, and wont bounce back, and will be down for longer...

Their father son picks are looking alright at the moment.