ENOUGH!

[Buckets]

This is absolute bull!@#$. After kicking the first 5 goals they have turned to s***!
The team is shot!
But more importantly so is Lyon.

I dont pretend to have the answers and never will, but the Lyon is the head coach and so far this season has not shown that he has any answers.
Kicking skills are atrocious, decision making is poor and when a team gets a run on it takes Lyon 2 quarters to change things up.

At the time of typing we have had 27 inside 50's, the margin at 3 quarter time was 11 it now sits at 43 and there is still 5 minutes to go.

Lyon has 2 choices, he either gets rid of those who cant do the team thing and starts a proper clean out of the list, employs a skills coach.

OR

He goes.

This game is 1999 V Hawks all over. This well scar us more than ever.

[joffaboy]

We cant sack a coach that has taken us to two GF's in a row.

That would be they typical loser destabilising St.Kilda attitude.

I said after game two we need to treat this year as a long pre season for 2012.

Our team has never been quick or overly skilled. Our gameplan was our backbone.

This has been supersceded, so we need to work on a new gameplan that suits our personnel.

We need to persist to Sipposs and Cripps and Steven.

We need to bring in Tommy Walsh down back and give the likes of Smith and Sinkin more game time. Lynch Winmar and Heyne need to show if they can cut it.

Players woul wont be prominent in our challenge for next year, like Dempster, and Gwilt, and Raph, maybe Kosi, and even Stve Milne need to be pensioned off into the reserves.

We are shot for 2011.

Can we regroup for 2012?

Well maybe. We need a ruckman and a good quick midfielder. We need to make the most of trading this off season and also use our high picks on some speed.

No point in sacking the coach unless you think we are completely gone and wont contest again until 2016-2017.

[SainterX]

Although it pains me to say this there is one man out there who has made a habit over the last 10 years or so of turning sub par players into super men.

Mick Malthouse. If he can take a group of for the most part, mediocre players into 3/4 grand finals I have no doubt he would have an influence on those in our club of the same ilk.

Ross Lyon to me seems like a one trick pony, and coaches like that don't last forever. I doubt we will see the day where a Ross Lyon coached St Kilda will put 150 points plus past any team at all, or regularly

Only one man, Allen Jeans has succeeded for our club, which puts Ross in the pack with every other coach we have had who has not gotten the job done.

[battye]

Lyon is not finished, but this defensive game plan certainly is. It's time to move on to something more attacking.

We also have to address some serious problems in the centre square. We win virtually no hitouts, even fewer to advantage and next to no clearances. We are behind the eight ball from the word go.

[Buckets]

We cant sack a coach that has taken us to two GF's in a row.

That would be they typical loser destabilising St.Kilda attitude.

I said after game two we need to treat this year as a long pre season for 2012.

Our team has never been quick or overly skilled. Our gameplan was our backbone.

This has been supersceded, so we need to work on a new gameplan that suits our personnel.

We need to persist to Sipposs and Cripps and Steven.

We need to bring in Tommy Walsh down back and give the likes of Smith and Sinkin more game time. Lynch Winmar and Heyne need to show if they can cut it.

Players woul wont be prominent in our challenge for next year, like Dempster, and Gwilt, and Raph, maybe Kosi, and even Stve Milne need to be pensioned off into the reserves.

We are shot for 2011.

Can we regroup for 2012?

Well maybe. We need a ruckman and a good quick midfielder. We need to make the most of trading this off season and also use our high picks on some speed.

No point in sacking the coach unless you think we are completely gone and wont contest again until 2016-2017.

The thing is I think 2012 is gone as well.

And is Lyon the right man to rebuild? Look at who he has recruited and traded for over his time at the helm. Does it suggest that he is more willing to try get experienced players or youth? Will he be able to adapt to the change that is needed in the playing list and the game plan?

[joffaboy]

Although it pains me to say this there is one man out there who has made a habit over the last 10 years or so of turning sub par players into super men.

In 2004 until 2009 I heard many say that Malthouse should be sacked.

They went through the exact thing we are going through now and they didn't automatically come out and sack the coach.

Typical St.Kilda loser mentality to sack a coach.

Put it this way. If the Saints did after Lyon got us to two GF's in a row and after the Thomas sacking, that would be just about it for me.

I would just stop going to games.

[Buckets]

Lyon is not finished, but this defensive game plan certainly is. It's time to move on to something more attacking.

We also have to address some serious problems in the centre square. We win virtually no hitouts, even fewer to advantage and next to no clearances. We are behind the eight ball from the word go.

Thats the thing though Battye. Thats first quarter was attacking and play on at all cost not the defensive mind set that we have had over the years. Then after the quarter time huddle we come out more worried about manning space than getting the ball.

[joffaboy]

We cant sack a coach that has taken us to two GF's in a row.

That would be they typical loser destabilising St.Kilda attitude.

I said after game two we need to treat this year as a long pre season for 2012.

Our team has never been quick or overly skilled. Our gameplan was our backbone.

This has been supersceded, so we need to work on a new gameplan that suits our personnel.

We need to persist to Sipposs and Cripps and Steven.

We need to bring in Tommy Walsh down back and give the likes of Smith and Sinkin more game time. Lynch Winmar and Heyne need to show if they can cut it.

Players woul wont be prominent in our challenge for next year, like Dempster, and Gwilt, and Raph, maybe Kosi, and even Stve Milne need to be pensioned off into the reserves.

We are shot for 2011.

Can we regroup for 2012?

Well maybe. We need a ruckman and a good quick midfielder. We need to make the most of trading this off season and also use our high picks on some speed.

No point in sacking the coach unless you think we are completely gone and wont contest again until 2016-2017.

The thing is I think 2012 is gone as well.

And is Lyon the right man to rebuild? Look at who he has recruited and traded for over his time at the helm. Does it suggest that he is more willing to try get experienced players or youth? Will he be able to adapt to the change that is needed in the playing list and the game plan?

So your answer is to sack the coach?

[Con Gorozidis]

2 GF's not relevant. Avoiding a "loser mentality" also not relevant.

Only one question relevant.

Does Lyon have a cogent plan for 2012?

Thats all I want to know.

And his plan cannot be the same one he had for 2009 (based on the swans 2005 flag). Cos 2012 starts right now.

[wraiyth]

Players woul wont be prominent in our challenge for next year, like Dempster, and Gwilt, and Raph, maybe Kosi, and even Stve Milne need to be pensioned off into the reserves.

Dunno if Gwilt and Milne are two to get rid of. We'd be far worse than we are this year without Milne, and Gwilt is never going to be a star but he's a solid player to have in your bottom 6.

Ross Lyon to me seems like a one trick pony, and coaches like that don't last forever

Not allowed to say that. I was roasted for calling this last season.

[SainterX]

Although it pains me to say this there is one man out there who has made a habit over the last 10 years or so of turning sub par players into super men.

In 2004 until 2009 I heard many say that Malthouse should be sacked.

They went through the exact thing we are going through now and they didn't automatically come out and sack the coach.

Typical St.Kilda loser mentality to sack a coach.

Put it this way. If the Saints did after Lyon got us to two GF's in a row and after the Thomas sacking, that would be just about it for me.

I would just stop going to games.

So how long would you give Lyon if we were to suddenly go on a downward spiral? How many years grace?

[wraiyth]

Although it pains me to say this there is one man out there who has made a habit over the last 10 years or so of turning sub par players into super men.

In 2004 until 2009 I heard many say that Malthouse should be sacked.

They went through the exact thing we are going through now and they didn't automatically come out and sack the coach.

Typical St.Kilda loser mentality to sack a coach.

Put it this way. If the Saints did after Lyon got us to two GF's in a row and after the Thomas sacking, that would be just about it for me.

I would just stop going to games.

So how long would you give Lyon if we were to suddenly go on a downward spiral? How many years grace?

How many years grace has John Worsfold had? And where are West Coast going now?

[Buckets]

We have to look at every little detail of the club.
That includes:

The players

Coaching committee

Recruiters

and

Senior Coach.

Can you honestly say to me that you didn't see todays game and compare that to the 1999 game? And look at the damage did.

I expected to be on the slide this year, but not plummet to 3rd last on the ladder only in front of a winless Brisbane and a pathetic Port.

When will the penny drop for the club?

[Buckets]

Although it pains me to say this there is one man out there who has made a habit over the last 10 years or so of turning sub par players into super men.

In 2004 until 2009 I heard many say that Malthouse should be sacked.

They went through the exact thing we are going through now and they didn't automatically come out and sack the coach.

Typical St.Kilda loser mentality to sack a coach.

Put it this way. If the Saints did after Lyon got us to two GF's in a row and after the Thomas sacking, that would be just about it for me.

I would just stop going to games.

So how long would you give Lyon if we were to suddenly go on a downward spiral? How many years grace?

How many years grace has John Worsfold had? And where are West Coast going now?

One slight difference. He at least coached a Premiership team.

[wraiyth]

Although it pains me to say this there is one man out there who has made a habit over the last 10 years or so of turning sub par players into super men.

In 2004 until 2009 I heard many say that Malthouse should be sacked.

They went through the exact thing we are going through now and they didn't automatically come out and sack the coach.

Typical St.Kilda loser mentality to sack a coach.

Put it this way. If the Saints did after Lyon got us to two GF's in a row and after the Thomas sacking, that would be just about it for me.

I would just stop going to games.

So how long would you give Lyon if we were to suddenly go on a downward spiral? How many years grace?

How many years grace has John Worsfold had? And where are West Coast going now?

One slight difference. He at least coached a Premiership team.

If it wasn't for a couple of unlucky bounces, RL would have coached 2 as well. I don't think anyone would say our grand final losses were coaching related problems.

[Buckets]

Although it pains me to say this there is one man out there who has made a habit over the last 10 years or so of turning sub par players into super men.

In 2004 until 2009 I heard many say that Malthouse should be sacked.

They went through the exact thing we are going through now and they didn't automatically come out and sack the coach.

Typical St.Kilda loser mentality to sack a coach.

Put it this way. If the Saints did after Lyon got us to two GF's in a row and after the Thomas sacking, that would be just about it for me.

I would just stop going to games.

So how long would you give Lyon if we were to suddenly go on a downward spiral? How many years grace?

How many years grace has John Worsfold had? And where are West Coast going now?

One slight difference. He at least coached a Premiership team.

If it wasn't for a couple of unlucky bounces, RL would have coached 2 as well. I don't think anyone would say our grand final losses were coaching related problems.

Coulda woulda shoulda! There is no point looking to what could have been. The fact is that we didnt get those breaks and out of 3 chances we have nothing to show for it.
I wonder if Collingwood fans still wonder about that shonky kick from a Saints player in 1966.

[joffaboy]

2 GF's not relevant. Avoiding a "loser mentality" also not relevant.

Garbage, both totally relevant, especially using Malthouse and Collingwood as an example

Loser mentality is also relevant. We get a hiccup, we sack the caoch. Apparently that makes the players run quicker and kick for goal straighter

Only one question relevant.

Does Lyon have a cogent plan for 2012?

Must be nice to live in your simple world. Only one question

Thats all I want to know.

And how can you know if he has a plan for next season when it is 2011? Nostradamus??

And his plan cannot be the same one he had for 2009 (based on the swans 2005 flag). Cos 2012 starts right now.

It wasn't based on 2005 for a start, different gameplan to Roo's completely.

And why couldn't it be anyway? If it was 4 year out of date and we almost won two flags, why cant it be tweaked again for better results?

So whats your cunning plan? Man up and kick it up the guts?

[bobmurray]

Listening to Matthew Knights on the ABC he says St Kilda doesn't have the offensive game to take on the press that teams now employ, a style of game that the Saints started.
Knights also said players like Baker, Dumpster ,Steven and Mini have NO offensive side and aren't going to give much trying to break the lines so the Saints should replace them with players that can..

that's all i heard.....

[The Fireman]

I said after game two we need to treat this year as a long pre season for 2012.

there is no chance of it being anything else.

[wraiyth]

Listening to Matthew Knights on the ABC he says St Kilda doesn't have the offensive game to take on the press that teams now employ, a style of game that the Saints started.
Knights also said players like Baker, Dumpster ,Steven and Mini have NO offensive side and aren't going to give much trying to break the lines so the Saints should replace them with players that can..

that's all i heard.....

Look where Matthew Knights' knowledge got him...

[SainterX]

Listening to Matthew Knights on the ABC he says St Kilda doesn't have the offensive game to take on the press that teams now employ, a style of game that the Saints started.
Knights also said players like Baker, Dumpster ,Steven and Mini have NO offensive side and aren't going to give much trying to break the lines so the Saints should replace them with players that can..

that's all i heard.....

Look where Matthew Knights' knowledge got him...

A million dollars for free?

[fingers]

Sacking the coach is not the fking answer. We have had years of instability - for the first time we have some.

The players are shot. Mentally gone.

RL deserves the chance to rebuild this team. He has enough credits in the bank as far as I am concerned. Those credits don't last forever - granted. But sacking RL is typical of the crap reactions we have dished up over the last 40 years.

[meher baba]

Personally I'm undecided whether or not we should hang onto Lyon. I have always hated the gameplan, but have to acknowledge its effectiveness for 2.5 seasons from mid-2008.

I guess I have never known what Lyon without the gameplan would be truly like as a coach. We've seen glimpses of it at times and my sense is he tends to veer too much the other way: all out attack with no care for defence. But perhaps he'll get it together. I'm not really a believer in sacking a successful coach: I wanted Alves and GT to stay too.

So put me down as a tentative pro-Lyon man.

[bobmurray]

Listening to Matthew Knights on the ABC he says St Kilda doesn't have the offensive game to take on the press that teams now employ, a style of game that the Saints started.
Knights also said players like Baker, Dumpster ,Steven and Mini have NO offensive side and aren't going to give much trying to break the lines so the Saints should replace them with players that can..

that's all i heard.....

Look where Matthew Knights' knowledge got him...

He is partly responsible for Essendons current list and had a huge part in their development......I think he is a lot more knowledgeable than internet experts and i think his comments have merit.

He also said we need a better spread of Leg Speed around our star players.

He thinks Roo tries to play more than one position during a game and actually suffers from fatigue, he said Roo plays both CHF and FF and that Roo would be better served to find one position and play it.Interestingly he said Roo looks like a champion in decline..

[Con Gorozidis]

2 GF's not relevant. Avoiding a "loser mentality" also not relevant.

Garbage, both totally relevant, especially using Malthouse and Collingwood as an example

Loser mentality is also relevant. We get a hiccup, we sack the caoch. Apparently that makes the players run quicker and kick for goal straighter

Only one question relevant.

Does Lyon have a cogent plan for 2012?

Must be nice to live in your simple world. Only one question

Thats all I want to know.

And how can you know if he has a plan for next season when it is 2011? Nostradamus??

And his plan cannot be the same one he had for 2009 (based on the swans 2005 flag). Cos 2012 starts right now.

It wasn't based on 2005 for a start, different gameplan to Roo's completely.

And why couldn't it be anyway? If it was 4 year out of date and we almost won two flags, why cant it be tweaked again for better results?

So whats your cunning plan? Man up and kick it up the guts?

that one question involves many aspects. by plan i mean on field, off field, training, recruiting, list mgt. and yes 2012 plan starts in 2011. malthouse stated his plan took 3 years. you develop a game plan and u recruit around it. you also train to suit that plan which involves how u build ur body and ur endurance. this takes years. u know exactly how many ks u expect each player to run and in what bursts. its very scientific. what are u saying u just rock up in february and work it out then? and ur calling me a simpleton? yeah right. you need to get ur short tall balance right. ur endurance training needs to be designed around your game plan. this all takes months and years to work out. u also need to work out your recruitment strategy and the player payments. so yeah - he needs to present this plan to the board for 2012 right now.

im also not a coach - but pay be 100k and i reckon i can probably develop a pretty comprehensive report if u give me 6 months.

dunno why ur potting me. so far the coaches answer to every question hs been "its all about effort" and ur calling me simplistic. he clearly hasnt got a plan for the sub or kept up with how rotations are done scientifically.

and 09 was totally based on 05 swans. and we are still serving it up. which is keep possession and slow things down when we have it and look for passes on the lead to edge the ball fwd. and tackle hard. thats the whole plan.

today we served up a half hearted zone/press hybrid.
we have too many players who only have a "defensive" side to their game.
his management/development record of young players has been woeful.
his inability to execute his promise of gilbo fwd is a coaching failure.

so seeing u brought up that im a simpleton and ur a complex thinker. please by all means let me have your wise and sagacious insights joffaboy??